One more observation for the afternoon.

You said that he will often threaten to end the marriage during arguments or disputes.

Now that probably is at least somewhat manipulative..but lets look at it a different way for just a sec.

Knowhing that you have some renter traits and seeing how you use sacrifice as a currency it is not hard to imagine that a lot of these discussions involved asking him to sacrifice or lose in order to demonstrate love or care.

His freeloader position says...if I have to lose to be with you then forget it.

Which reinforces to YOU that he doesn't love you because he's not willing to make those sacrifices and the two are tied together in your perceptions.

See how neatly that screws you both?

Buyer allows for win/win solution that both people feel really good about and enthusiastic about. It FEELS like a win to both people.

That is going to be a major struggling point for you because you will view that as "selfish". You won't stick up for you coming to the table with your taker on and you won't be happy when he comes with his taker on either.

Renters view the taker as a BAD thing..but actually the taker is a good thing AS LONG as it isn't taking advantage of other people..and how do we make sure of that?

By them having their OWN taker look out for their wants and needs.

There is an article on this site about the taker/giver relationship and how they both function which would probably be helpfull.

Mulan, I don't want to TJ SC's thread, but I will respond a bit.

The first step is telling him of my hurt. The SECOND step is then making a boundary and enforcing it. I do intend on doing this; it was very difficult for me to even SAY what I did to him; I've NEVER talked about my pain with him before the A, EVER. Yes, that's about me. I am working on not being fearful, Mulan. These things take time.

AS I stated to SC, I'm working on myself in this capacity also, so I understand the changes that need to take place in order to change myself. YOU are much further along the personal recovery path than I am, so I expect that you would talk this frankly with your H. I am in the beginning stages and still trying to find ways to communicate.

Now, if you'd like to comment on how stoopid this line of thinking is, take that to my thread, let's leave SC's thread for HER to get help.

This is REALLY CONFUSING. Like i said before shouldn't you make sacrifices in your marriage.

I have sacrificied the whole M. He has sacrificied the whole M that is part of being married IMO.

You do waht it takes to make your spouse a happier person.

No, sacrifice is BAD.

Sacrifice leads to resentment. You sacrifice and you are hugely resentfull.

Look at sacrifice as a "gift" with strings attached. I took a loss for YOU and now you OWE me.

That is not a gift it is a manipulation and a controlling mechanism.

Why do you believe you have to lose in order for your H to win?

It is better to say...

I will not accept a lose for me and i will not accept a lose for you.

See, I told you that as a renter..learning to be a buyer would be HARD!!!

Your H will probably struggle less because he already "gets" the idea that it's OK to win and look out for what you want.

If you have sacrificed for the whole marriage then you have spent your whole marriage waiting for a check that is never going to come...especially not with a freeloader. If you will lose they will let you.

SC,

It sounds as though you are looking for someone to tell you exactly what to do that will FIX THIS RIGHT NOW. That isn't going to happen because the solution for dealing with this in a healthy fashion requires a thinking change and some new skills on your part and thinking changes don't happen overnight.





It doesn't make any difference whether or not you said this to his face or not. Even if you THINK it, it affects the way you interact with him and he'll get the message loud and clear.

Again, it is NOT what you want that is the issue. It is the method that you are using to try to accomplish it that isn't conducive to your goal.

Oops! Looks like I was a little late for the party! That's what I get for waiting 2 hours to click "send".

Did I respond to the wrong thread with the stuff about the shirt? If I did, sorry! I'll try to find the right one.


Agree 100%. One of the biggest shocks about the MB system is that NO ONE is supposed to sacrifice in order to keep the marriage together or make their partner happy. Most people somehow get the message that marriage is made up of sacrifice and that's what they should do to be a good partner, so they sacrifice more and more and can't understand why they're getting less and less.

If you read up on POJA, you will find a lot of info about this.

Sacrifice is bad because sacrifice breeds resentment. Resentment kill relationships.
Mulan

Been doing a lot of reading and trying to not be a renter. Here is a couple of others things to add to the mix though.

I do not want people to think that my FWH is an AWFUL person and why would i even want to stay with him but anyway i think part of the reason i have sacrificed so much in my marriage (been a renter) is because of my H. He has a HORRIBLE temper. He has never been physically abusive but is one of those types of people that just gets mad at the drop of a hat sometimes and he acts like a child having a temper tantrum. He screams and yells and knocks things off of the table and quite frankly is just an [censored]. Therefore in our M alot of times i do not express my feelings because i do not want to hear his mouth so i just keep quiet until the time comes that he brings it up and then i know we can have a conversation rather than just listening to him scream like a maniac.

He also is what i call a "functioning alcoholic". Meaning he drinks pretty much every day but still goes to work and such. His drinking had become heavier and heavier right before the A and it was horrible during the A (because she drank too and i do not so they would drink together) and he drove home several times way too drunk to be driving which he had never done before (no need to he had a built in designated driver in me). He has told me that he feels that his drinking is not a good thing and thinks that he needs to cut back on it (which is not my suggestion even though i am glad he is making an effort to do so).

What i really want to know is does any of this make a difference when i try to change my way of thinking. Is this something i should take into consideration when trying to become a buyer?

ooo, BR would be a good person to answer this question.

I don't think it's ever bad to change yourself, for the better, because it benefits YOU.

SC,

I hear you saying that FWH has a problem with acting out his anger.

And that you have a problem with addressing other people's anger.

Is that correct?

LA

He definitely has a problem with temper tantrums (although they have gotten drastically better throughout the 24 years we have been together).

I do not know if i would say that i have a problem addressing his anger it is that i chose not to. When he acts like a little kid throwing his temper tantrams i just tend to be quiet. Actually the whole house just gets quiet because he is in such a rage and none of us want to hear him (except my 17 year old daughter who just gives it right back to him and then they get into it).

He then gets over it as quick as he got mad and then is all lovey dovey like nothing happened. My temper on the other hand is one of those kind that once he makes me mad i am sulky for a while until i get over it (I do not think mine temper is better than his just different because that is not the way i should handle things either).

I ABSOLUTELY HATE his temper and as a matter of fact so does he and it has been a dicussion of ours throughout our M. I just shut down when he start raging.

How about setting a boundary that you will not bear witness to his rage, and will remove yourself from any situation that it exists?

Then you stand up and leave the room, the house, the county, whatever your enforcement is.