I have been AWESTRUCK by this ALL DAY..but oh so, busy...

THIS DESCRIBES OUR SITUATION EXACTLY...

SF with my H during PLAN A was hardly about that particular need. In fact, ADMIRATION is my H's PRIMARY EMOTIONAL NEED..it gets him HIGH..no kidding..and that's THE NEED that the OW was providing...For him, even now, it's SO, SO MUCH MORE than the actual act which makes it SO, SO MUCH MORE than SF.

I THINK STAR'S INSIGHT INTO THIS IS MAGNIFICENT AND SHOULD NOT GET LOST IN THE MIDST OF THE NEGATIVITY!!

BSes, especially women, need to get this as they pursue SAFE SF, including kissing, hugging, making out, saying and expressing: "I DESIRE YOU"...in all ways possible...

AND HERE YOU HAVE IT..PERFECT!!!



Along with SF, I worked on PHYSICAL ATTRACTION during PLAN A. That's safe and tied into all this..WE ARE SAYING THAT THE EMOTIONAL NEEDS ARE ALL ENTERTWINED...smelling good, looking good, surrounded by a "SANCTUARY" (my H calls it) in describing the HOME ENVIRONMENT that I can provide...



I agree with this Star. I suggested it too early for Kim. I've acknowledged that.



You lost me here, though, Star...because earlier you spoke so well about it NOT being JUST about TURNING the spouse's head. I personally still feel GOOD(?) about what I did. You spoke so well about IT NOT BEING ABOUT JUST MEETING THE SF NEED. Sure my H enjoyed the SEX but he was getting that from HER. HE LOVED IT THAT I DESIRED HIM AGAIN.

But I have to admit that OUR STORY may be very different than others. In the past, prior to the rough 10 years in our marriage (out of our 35 year relationship), my H WAS VERY, VERY MUCH IN LOVE with me. I didn't realize HOW MUCH until AFTER HIS AFFAIR. He said, during PLAN A: "I LOVED YOU SO MUCH, I WOULD DIE FOR YOU"..and it hit me THEN..it took the affair for me to GET IT...just an aside..but I felt that LOVE AGAIN during those times 'cause that was when he would tell me how much he loved me...

Your post made this all clear to me, Star...

Thanks...

WE ARE BACK TO THE REGULARLY SCHEDULED PROGRAM....

And I've been thinking about that description of us as being DESPERATE. That downplays the UTTER DEVASTATION we feel upon realizing and accepting what has happened, what is happening. It's DEVASTATION... a hole in your heart..a tear in your soul..that takes years and years if ever to HEAL...some stranger has come into your life and robbed you of all of your precious possessions, the spouse you once knew inside and out no longer exists but is a living and breathing human, your life is no longer the same, will never be the same again, your DREAM HOUSE feels like a DUNGEON...YOUR WHOLE LIFE HAS BEEN TURNED UPSIDE DOWN..I will never be the same again..it must be how rape victims feel...so yes, unwise choices will be made...NO DOUBT...some have even murdered over this...and will murder...

What I am saying is that this ALL SPEAKS TO THE TRAGEDY OF AFFAIRS...

It's not like someone stole your high school boyfriend and you are DESPERATE to get him back...that's what I think about when I hear the word DESPERATE...

Then we come here and get EMPOWERED with A PLAN OF ACTION..HOW WONDERFUL...GOD BLESS DR. HARLEY, STEVE and them for what they have done and what they are doing...

We should all be PROCLAIMING THE AWFULNESS OF THIS in all the ways that we can...and do our part to FIGHT THE EVIL FORCES that are making this possible...

Excuse me for my passionate vent tonight..but all of this stuff was on my mind today...

SO THERE...

Starfish's post can be found on this thread...

I responded to it and want to continue the discussion...

I'm really not certain what all the discussion that has resulted in people feeling insulted or shouted down is all about on this thread. Personally, I don't think there is anything wrong with a BS having sex with a WS.

There are inherent risks for anyone having sex today. Even if someone thinks their spouse is faithful, that may not be the case.

As far as judging a person for choosing to have sex with a WS, I don't believe that's anyone else's prerogative.

Was Esther "desperate" when she had sex with a man who had a harem and was using a "night with the king" to decide who would be queen?

I believe it was God Himself who gave Esther the wisdom to give the king the best night of his "tryout" experience. lol

Did y'all forget that was in the Bible? lol I can't help it... I'm laughing. Esther was a very wise woman. And if mimi or others are... that is between the Lord and them.

In the wisdom of Esther, I fully intend to have sex with my ex. I don't want to hear any judgments about it. I've received this from the Lord.

My ex, as Dr. Harley has stated, literally "falls apart" because I have not responded to his efforts to cause me to feel attraction for him that is conveyed by look. I can't look at him the way he needs (and he equates with all his EN's for admiration, etc.)... if I have not preset my mind that I WILL have sex with him.

If Esther had sex with the king who was having sex with all these virgins of the land (and we just can't be sure they were virgins... nor can we be sure that the harem guards really protected the king from being exposed to STD's by any number of his concubines)... I just don't think it's "desperate" to be given wisdom from God (and whose to judge?) to decide to meet the EN of SF. That's not for ANYONE on this board to judge - when each person on this board makes a decision of how to successfully carry out an Plan A.

I don't want, personally, for anyone to attack my Plan A.

They are not being "helpful" or "constructive". Speaking for myself, I'd like support for my Plan A and revived feelings of attraction for my WS.

Honestly, I don't know if it will result... but I know that from my heart I have to think it all the way through... and I mean all the way... and decide to exercise the wisdom of Esther... and not "worry" about whether the ex is having sex with the OP.

Standard protection - a condom - yeah.

But not abstinence.

I'm an adult. It's my decision.

Back, your post is so ridiculous that it doesn't even warrant a reply.

And BTW...isn't your EX husband legally married to another woman?

Then why did you reply?

If you're against meeting SF as an EN in a Plan A... I thank you for your reticence.

As a Christian, I follow the laws of God as I understand them in the Bible. As Thoreau stated, I am not willing to be a cog in the wheel of injustice... when the laws of the land do not reflect the truth of God's Word.

If 2 men marry... whether or not it's "legal" or not... I will not recognize it as "marriage".

Same principle. My decision to have sex with my ex is my decision.

you are having sex outside of marriage and you are having that sex with someone elses spouse. You are divorced....even if you believe that your H is committing adultery...you are still divorced.

call it what you want...it is desperate and adultery?

*************And deny that you are being disrespectful???

Imo, sex with an ex is not sex outside of marriage... because it is my personal religious conviction that the covenant still exists.

Marriage, to me, is what the Bible defines as marriage... not what the state defines... when these 2 conflict.

While you may not share my personal religious convictions, you only reveal your own character in your slurs against a woman who answers not to you - but to God.

*************

Final comment: I have not had sex with the ex... but I do intend to have my mind and emotions set to do so... in order to effect a successful Plan A.

If the Lord should say not to do so in the situation... then, I won't.

But if I feel it is the wisdom of Esther... I shall.

Now there are plenty of men and women on this site who do have sex outside marriage... in premarital sex.

if you are sleeping with another persons spouse, you are wrong and an adultress...and you are using Scripture to excuse your sin.

It is not disrespectful to call a sinner by its true name.

You stated that every person who has sex outside of marriage - premarital sex - *******.. cause you say that is their "true name".

As I stated, I have not yet done so... I am nonetheless so gearing my heart and mind... and feel the Lord's blessing.

Now, when this OW had sex outside of marriage - and stole a man thereby - when did she stop *********in your book?

According to the Bible, irrespective of what the state says, she's still engaging in immoral sex...

I'm not going to think and feel how you think you can force me to think and feel according to your own beliefs.

My beliefs are based on my understanding of the Bible for myself.

I don't need your permission to make my own decisions in my religious beliefs.

if you have sex with someones elses spouse,you are committing adultery (better?) That's my understanding...I am not speaking about premarital sex...I am talking about YOU having sex with someone else's spouse. I am talking to someone that is unable to move on and has been vicious in her assault on other posters that have wound up divorced.

You need some serious help.

And you are right, you don't need my permission...you can decide to be immoral all by yourself IF you sleep with your ex H while he is married to another person. I have no delusion of being able to cut through your warped logic....you own that...you will pay the price.

The viciousness is on the parts of those who have attacked me. Among them, is yours.

You may want to read more of Dr. Harley's books. In them, he talks about continuing to Plan A/B even after the WS has married the OP... still moving for reconciliation.

BTW, I'm kinda "past" being hurt by the viciousness. Actually, it was a rather "rude shock"... at first.

I merely consider the source... and look to what I'm standing on.

back,

Over in the divorced forum, you have referred to Mr Wondering as "Mr Wonderful". I sure don't think that a Christian woman who is all about God would be flirting with a married man like that...what do you think?

committed

Back:

At this point, it is CRUCIAL for you to gain the RESPECT of your XH. Gaining his RESPECT will not be through having s*x with him. No, you are not a HO..but HE will be treating you like one. He will see you as not having enough RESPECT for yourself to demand better treatment.

I bet you are saying "you did it"..but I was with MY HUSBAND...

I made it VERY CLEAR to my H that if he DIVORCED me that I WOULD NOT HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH HIM...He came to BELIEVE ME about that and actually FEARED that...

To me, DIVORCE means CHOOSING to SEVER ALL TIES...actually BREAKING THE COVENANT...

Now there are plenty of men and women on this site who do have sex outside marriage... in premarital sex.


Oh..oh...oh...I have the answer to that one...

"the sin they did...they did not do". <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

It was found in their member...dontcha know.

See...that makes it all ok for them to have sex...it isn't a mortal sin.

It is happening against their will...you have that flesh vs spirit battle going on... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

committed

Back:

I don't think I've read anything in Dr. Harley's materials about having sex with your X after they have married somebody else. That clearly is adultery and I'm pretty sure Dr. Harley would not approve of that.

Also, while I believe the bible does say that adulterers are still adulterers even if they end up getting married to each other, it does not logically follow that if YOU (plan to) have sex with one of those adulterers that YOU are not (planning on) committing adultery ALSO.

I did have sex with my WH once during a 6 week Plan A and a few times during a 4 day false recovery. I regret having done so. Any benefit derived from doing so, any damage done to the adulterous relationship, could have been achieved, actually could have been greatly enhanced, by my refraining from having sex with my adulterous spouse. His desire to have sex with me, and the possibility that I might, had power to damage the adultery with the OW. It was not really necessary for me to put myself at such physical and emotional risk in order to Plan A. Having sex with my unrepentant, unreformed WH actually defused any power I might have had because of his desire to have sex with me.