Please feel free to im me. Here's the situation. You continue to repeat why, from your POV, you did nothing wrong and "didn't really" call me a name.

Well, you spoke publicly to a man who called me a "troll"... which would be the same as repeating the name... in APPLICATION TO ME... in my hearing as well as in the hearing of a public crowd.

To understand, perhaps you may want to put yourself in my shoes and see from my POV.

Then you may be able to understand why your ongoing explanation of your POV... does not coincide with my experience standing in my shoes.

You do owe me an apology... not from the experience from your POV... but rather from mine.

Whether or not you think you did something wrong... from my POV... you did.

So you don't need to apologize for knowingly, intentionally calling me a name... you need to apologize for talking about me in so derogatory a manner in my hearing (and in other's) with someone who quite clearly did.

The social dynamic is not friendly... and I had clearly identified myself as a person newly returning to the site.

Repeating your POV does not change my experience.

I'd like to just forget it... but if you insist on rehashing it... i'd ask that you please see it from "the other side"... and taking THAT into consideration.

Stop and think about it a while. or i'm me... it's like beating your head up against a wall... because you've never taken the time to listen to another POV... or shown any sensitivity towards the feelings of others (in this case - mine.)

That's how life works.

Please feel free to im me... or just drop it. I can forgive nad forget... but i'm not prone to agree with you that you don't need to consider others, me, my feelings, and it was "okay".

It wasn't.

God bless,

Sorry back, I guess I am leaving. Can't support you in the idea of trying to steal a man from his wife, icky.

BTW, your shrink making passes at you? Double icky. And don't forget, Ferraris are the most high maintenanace cars out there, so it may be a backward compliment of sorts.

Good luck.

AGG

My theology is based on right and wrong. Pretty simple. This statment doesn't sound like a woman bathed in the love of God and the Holy spirit but of a woman scorned, who's lifemate betrayed her horribly (that is the person your anger should be directed at, not just the OW-W), who's self esteem is in the dumps (can relate as a BS myself!) and needs outside validation and is out for some sort of revenge and to PROVE to that OW-W that you can have "your" man back anytime you want. Hey, I get that kind of anger. I see you. What I don't buy is your religious justification for what you want to do. Nope. You can accuse me of having faulty, foggy theology or what not, post some scripture, but bottom line is you are using God and his scripture to justify actions that are wrong.

All is NOT fair in love and war Back, otherwise OW-W could use the same argument.

Right and wrong. Pretty simple. We'll have to agree to disagree

Keep praying. Keep asking for guidance and clarity. I'm sorry for your hurt.

Peace. I'm out.

Oh, and is the "ignore this poster" button still around? If so, I highly suggest you and Surviving find it STAT, and use it on each other.

This cat fight is getting silly.

Just my .02

back-

I just read through your whole thread and find your reasoning interesting but not biblically accurate.

I realize that you have said that this is YOUR plan, that you feel God has put in your heart from the Holy Spirit-and you believe that, based on the verses in Malachi, that you are still in a Covenant marriage with your XH.

I don't think you are looking at the scripture in the context in which it was written.

In that section, Malachi is speaking to the adulterers. They are the ones whose prayers aren’t answered. When it says that God is the witness to them not keeping faith with the wife of their youth it means God is the one who is the accuser. In Hebrew, that word means accuser because God is the one who has seen what they have done. Then, Malachi provides a warning to others, to guard their hearts and keep faith with their wives. Choice/ consequence. God doesn’t hear their prayers or bless them. That’s what this section is about.

Regardless of whether you want it to be a covenant or not, you can’t make it a covenant again. Your XH’s sin broke it. You didn’t get that choice. (Just for the record-neither did I).

Also, you say that you would sleep with your XH based on this passage-and then you used wording that sounds very much like revenge “turn about is fair play”-yet God is very specific that vengeance is His, He will repay. So, if you did this for this reason, you would be violating God’s word.

I am not saying that God might not bring you and your XH back together. Nothing is impossible with God. But this passage in Malachi isn't about justifying your pursuit and possible sexual involvement with your X.

Another question I have is when you mention using the “power of attraction”. The power of attraction (from the non-biblical ideas in “The Secret” ) is a contrary belief to that of the Holy Spirit and His influence in our lives.

Now, if you just mean your own personal attractiveness…that’s a different story. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Please see below. In the Bible, the greatest prophet who ever lived (John the Baptist - called this per Jesus Christ who is God)... defines who is married to whom... following "divorce".

Please note that Herod's brother and his wife divorced. Then Herod married the "ex-wife". John the Baptist confronts Herod and states that it is not lawful to have her... and refers to her STILL... as his brother's wife.

That's why John the Baptist lost his head. It's not popular to tell the truth.

The divorce was not recognized by God - and the prophet states she is still Herod's brother's wife... in God's eyes.

Now, if the Word of God matters... you'll see God does not always recognize divorce...a nd considers people still married. (Y'all are fogging up Malachi... in my opinion. Live by your own convictions, yes... but don't judge me on the basis of cultural interpretations of God's Word.)

Mark 6:16-18 (New International Version)

16But when Herod heard this, he said, "John, the man I beheaded, has been raised from the dead!"

17For Herod himself had given orders to have John arrested, and he had him bound and put in prison. He did this because of Herodias, his brother Philip's wife, whom he had married. 18For John had been saying to Herod, "It is not lawful for you to have your brother's wife."

(Herod married her... but God did not recognize the marriage... said it was contrary to God's law and not lawful though./.. well, they called it "marriage". Who gets to define what is marriage? YOu say man. I say God. I stand on the Word of God... and in the Spirit... no matter if I am not perfect and express hostility towards the OW or not... that doesn't change the fact that I can have sex with that man in total purity in God's eyes.)

Post deleted by back

back-

I was not interpreting Malachi by cultural interpretations. I was interpreting it by the context (actual Hebrew and the audience to whom it was written).

I never challenged your conviction of the Holy Spirit's leading in your life.

I never even commented on the connection you have with your ex.

I was going back to the scripture you were using to say that your covenant marriage has not ended and pointed out that the passage was for your ex. He will reap what his breaking of this covenant has done in his life.

It wasn't about you. It was about God's word.

Well, good luck with it - I think you are in for a load of misery no matter which way it turns out.

AGG

i have to agree. i can't support this either or this way of thinking. and twisting the bible for one's own purpose and making the rest of us who chose divorce due to adultery try to believe that god won't bless a second marriage is a bunch of crap.

good luck to you as well, i am bowing out gracefully as you have asked those to do who don't support this "****** hath no fury" and "eye for an eye" mentality....

mlhb

actually, i think you are seeing what you want to see... from your own makeup.

i will restore the relationship... and have found this section to be replete with bitter persons who wish others ill... and seek to take other's eyes out... while feigning hypocritical moral superiority.

i think this section is full of hurt people... who lash out to hurt others.

More evidence that attempts to divorce from covenant relationship solves nothing... in many cases... and is not a cure.

It just leaves a trail of hurt people lashing out at others... which is what this thread reveals about so many of those who joined it with malice and cutting remarks... and uncalled for criticism.

and if i had stayed with my ex after his years of continued affairs i would have taught my son it was ok to be married yet screw other women whenever you wanted and to treat women like objects and i would have taught my daughter it was ok as a woman to be treated like that. no, divorce does not cause the bitterness, being cheated on and verbally abused for years did that for me. i am now free, THANK GOD and can create a happy healthy existance for my children.

i do hope you get what you are setting out for. it is your path and yours alone. i don't judge you for it. it is your life. i just am choosing not to post here anymore. (after this post of course! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />)

mlhb

I think that's your problem. You react to things out of your own hurt and pain... that's your "plumbline"... and you lack objectivity whereby to see and know truth beyond yourself and your own experience.

That's the result of a pain-centered perspective that projects yourself onto others.

You think everything is about you, it appears. And that's why you are so quick to project your own fog onto scripture as well as the motives and intent of others.

That's how it looks to me.

And you think this thread is all about you.

That's what hurt people do.

While I can pity you... you're not helpful to others nor are you Christ-centered in your attacks... but you don't really know what you're doing, imo.

You come straight up against the Word of God attempting to justify yourselves.

The Bible says either reconcile or remain unmarried. God is NOT going to MAKE every remarriage a covenant relationship within the bonds of holy matrimony.

Would I judge someone who had been through a lot and "fell into" another marriage for comfort? Actually, no not really. But don't tell me I don't know the Word of God.

The Bible clearly states you are to remain unmarried if you are not reconciled to your husband,... doesn't it?

Now, if you don't want to live by the Bible, that's between you and the Lord.

But you can't twist God's work to make Him approve of something He's told people not to do in His Word.

It's this culture - that says divorce and subsequent remarriages are honored by God.

It's this culture that doesn't honor covenant relationship and the holy bonds of matrimony.

Second marriages are not always covenant.

If you want to check out the Word of God... you might see that if God keeps His Word, God never will re-create bonds of holy matrimony in your life as long as your ex is living.

It says to remain unmarried, doesn't it?

Or be reconciled to a former husband.

You jumped on this thread attacking me for moving to reconcile with my ex... demanding that I respect his subsequent re-marriage like it was holy matrimony... when God has told me quite clearly IT ISN'T!!!!! It's ADULTERY!!!!

You could have just minded your own business and not moved to attack me based on your own selfish demands for rights to remarry like my story is all about you.

You MUST remain unmarried... according to the Word of God. See it? 1 Cor. 7:11... if you divorced a Christian?

1 Corinthians 7:10-12 ]

10To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband. 11But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife.

12To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord): If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her.

You could have just minded your own business...

Gawd...then keep your business to yourself and don't post about it.

You posted on a forum that is open to comment. I suggest that you keep your business to yourself and don't post on a public forum if you dont want people up in it.

geeeeezzzz...lunacy. <must be a full moon>

committed

Mark 10:11
He answered, "Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her."

That's Jesus talking. If you call Him Lord, do you not agree with Him and do what He says?

Why do you attack a Christian of character who says, "Yes, Lord."????

Why do you attack me for saying that a WS who marries the OW is committing ongoing adultery against the BS?

It's what Jesus taught. In the Bible.

Luke 6:45-47 (New International Version)

45The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in his heart, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in his heart. For out of the overflow of his heart his mouth speaks.
The Wise and Foolish Builders
46"Why do you call me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say? 47I will show you what he is like who comes to me and hears my words and puts them into practice.



Why do you call Jesus Lord, and do not do what He says?

My objection is against being attacked for merely doing and saying what Jesus Christ, my Lord, says... as if that's not "Christian"... or can be called "wrong".

If Jesus is wrong, I'm wrong.

If Jesus is right, I'm just in agreement with Him.

It's Him and His teaching you hate - not me... just me, for His name's and teaching's sake?

Back,

Interesting situation I have not seen here in yet.

If my wife had run off and married OM over 2 years ago instead of repenting and reconciling with me I might have done the same thing you are doing. I was quite confident that I could outwit and outlast OM.

Would it have been healthy for me to do so??? I doubt it.

I like what someone said above about vengence also. I worry for YOU about the consequences that always result from inappropriate and poor choices.

I do have a couple questions.

1. When you divorced did you ever sign (either yourself or your attorney (your agent)) a divorce decree?

2. Would that be considered "putting out" your adulterous husband with a "certificate of divorce"?

3. Would that end the "covenant" to such an extent that though HE would not be allowed to remarry he would still not be your husband and having sex with him whether he was married to OW or not would be sinful? (and I'm not being judgmental for I, too, was a fornicator prior to marriage)

4. It's certainly legal adultery but whether it's biblical adultery I'm undecided as I don't respect affairages in the least but just maybe it comes down to an adulterous heart. What is your true intent in pursuing this and allowing or considering to allow your xh to have non-marital sexual relations with you?

5. How will you feel about this in 10 years, if XH never repents nor reconciles with you...he just uses you and your vulnerabilities for sexual gratification because he is Evil. There is an absence of God in his life and any union with him is risky to you, IMO.

I don't know. It just a messy situation and I think it's very dangerous and unhealthy for YOU to be attempting to or actually having sex with your XH.

Easy on the flaming people...I'm just looking to discuss it.

Mr. Wondering

Hi MW,

Thank you for your comments.

The problem I see with other posters is "enmeshment". It's like they can't separate their own values and life choices and beliefs from mine. The very fact that I hold a different position... seems to them to warrant vicious attack... or at least "a fight!". They are not controlling their emotions and are lashing out at me... which I don't see you doing. Thank you!

All of these situations are messy. And many "well-wishers" call on people whose spouses are having an "A" to "throw the bum out!"... rather than reconcile. My situation is at a different point in the spectrum... but the same MB principles all apply, as Dr. Harley states. I'm sure all BS experience how "messy" it is to decide to "go for" reconciliation with a WS instead of just "walking away".

In my case, I have dated other men. I am very well-loved and deemed very attractive both physically and in my persona. I have, in my opinion, given every opportunity to have my heart "won" by some very outstanding and good looking men.

But, it is purely that the Lord will not honor any of these relationships nor will He place His blessing upon them at the level of marriage by His Spirit.

I am not a person who will be "dragged into" a situation just because my EN's are not being met. People also tell me that I am the most powerfully anointed Christian that they have ever met. I truly, sincerely, honestly believe that it is the Lord who is guiding me and has plainly revealed His will both by His Word (in my understanding) as well as my experience in giving "space" for the Lord to move in any of these relationships.

I went to a restaurant, MW, to meet a work associate for business... got there first and was waiting. The owner of the restaurant walked by, did a double take, and was compelled to come talk to me THREE TIMES!!!... telling me a beautiful woman like me should not be left alone and he would gladly take the place of the person I was there to meet.

These things happen all the time. He was attractive, had money (presumably) was most interested... and though I smile and am kind... it's not my heart in the Lord to be moved at the center of my spirit.

God will not anoint any relationship I have... and it is only my ex, I believe the Word and my circumstances state in my experience, with whom I will ever experience true covenant love in the Spirit in the holy bonds of matrimony as long as we are both living.

Why others are so hateful, and spiteful, and vicious in their attacks of me... is a matter between their own wounded souls and the Lord, imo.

I make these statements to you as a preface... and will come back.

"back"

Hi MW,

I just began speaking and I think I did, for the most part, answer your questions in a narrative form.

I am an extremely empathic person. I see that you did outlast and outwit the OM.

Unfortunately, my empathy and my good qualities (in other contexts) did not avail me strength in times of this kind of trouble... in a way. I'm not really strong enough, in a way, to "battle" with or outwit a WS. In a way, I'm so innocent and gullible... I was so easily destroyed... and manipulated... and just plain too pure of heart (in a way) to comprehend the deceit and how to counter it.

I was just shocked. And reduced to being "imprisoned" beyond an "electric fence". Like I totally shut down.

I lost all capacity to relate to and interact with the ex. And how this effected him was so powerful... he's been very hurt by inaccessibility and his inability to reach me or "connect" in, quite frankly, a sexual way.

He wanted, imo, to "play both sides of the fence"... and it completely backfired on him, imo.

I don't care what anyone says about WS's. They are doing evil... evil has effected them... but, to me, they are at the same time like innocent children who have drank a deadly poison and are delirious or something. They are "not themselves".

He needs me... and I know that. If I was strong enough to have "pulled him out of it"... I would have. I couldn't. I didn't bear up and I wasn't as strong as you were.

So... I Plan B'd for a long time. Until I felt, as I feel now, that he will be easily won by a Plan A.

That's my opinion of the situation and how I am feeling lead of the Spirit now, imo.

No, no legal divorce constitutes spiritual divorce in my experience in this.

Therefore, though I am now being called a "ho", etc., etc... the truth is... the covenant still exists and the love of God in my heart for my ex is just as pure and as holy as if we were still legal married (no matter how also, of course, there is hurt about this matter).

It is not sinful at all in the least for me to continue to love him... nor would sex with him violate God's Word or be sin or anything wrong.

What is legal marriage is not spiritual marriage in this situation. What is legal marriage is truly spiritual adultery in the sight of God (in my ex's current marriage)... and any sex I would have with him even now may be construed by those who judge only by appearances to be "legal adultery"... but it's not at all in the sight of God and according to the truth of the matter. It continues to be holy matrimony in the bonds of God who has not changed with the circumstances.

This would have been understood... were it not for the culture and the times... since the "fog" descended in this culture.

In past days, people would have recognized that God did not recognize this relationship as holy by any means.

The prevalence of divorced has altered people's perceptions of God's Word in this day and age. God's Word has not changed. Nor has the truth of what is right and what is wrong.

Many people are married today in the sight of the "law"... imo... who are actually not married in the sight of God.

(I think that's why the vicious attack and backlash against me... like I'm taking away their "cookie"... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> )

They are acting like WS's in their theology... imo... and the fog has gripped them.

That's my perception.

I would feel no guilt to have sex with the ex any more than any BS should in executing a Plan A.

Thanks,

God bless,

Therein lies the danger. Until your XH repents and discontinues living in sin he remains an "evil man" with evil things stored up in his heart.

I fear the devil is finding a way into your prideful Christian beliefs and using your "Christian" faithfulness to deliver to you a false message. A message of false hope that you should lay with an evil man to restore goodness in him instead of trusting the Lord to do it on your behalf.

This IS Dr. Harley's websie and I don't foresee him or his children advising you to do as you suggest as a part of Plan A'ing him whilst he is married to another but I can't speak for them. Perhaps a call to the counciling center is in order as I think it would be a huge mistake for YOU.

Mr. Wondering

p.s.- As the betrayed spouse that has "put out" their adulterous spouse why is it you do not feel you have any right to obtain for yourself another covenant marriage with someone else. Sure your husband can't biblically remarry but why can't you?