You said earlier that running back to Oregon would involve much fun, friends, and family for her?

I would expose to her mom. You never know, she may have many regrets about how she conducted herself and may be very upset to learn that her daughter is following in her footsteps. She just might have a lot of wisdom to impart to her daughter. That's assuming alot, point is, you don't know what her mom might think of it. Also, if fleeing to Oregon is in the back of her mind it might not be so appealing when she has to consider walking in the door with a scarlet A on her chest.

A couple of thoughts on why at this point I'm leaning towards not exposing to her mom:
I don't believe she does have regrets about her own decision. Unfortunately, WW's dad was not such a great guy (understated), and WW's step dad is a good guy.
Wthout being hurtful, WW's mom is not exatly the "Impart wisdom" type.
WW's perspective on this is that OM is her "Good Friend". I suspect that WW's mom would tend to side with her if there were conflict between us. She loves her daughter, and with the details explained to her through the foggy eyes of WW, I find it hard not to think that she would have an ally in the "My husband is being unreasonable" camp.
WW's mom does like me. We have a good relationship, and she knows I love, and care for WW. But if it came down to it, she's gonna side with her.

I haven't completely ruled this out, but at this point my feeling is that if I did, it would be part of plan B, not Plan A...

Is there a discussion forum that I can recommend to WW to find some advice that might be helpful to her in ending the A and re-committing to saving our marriage and family?

Hi all,
I want to ask my WW to basically include OMW in the NC I have requested.
I need some suggestions on how to phrase this to her. It seems a little awkward to just bring it up.
Can anyone offer some help with this? I am planning to send her an email so I can be direct and brief. Also, this should help to avoid a lengthy discussion which tend to get a little unpleasant these days.
My feelings in general are that there can be no benefit to WW & My relationship by WW and OMW talking. Based on the hail of petty insults he threw at me on my recent call to OM, I think that OMW must be considered an "unfriendly" in this ordeal. As I mentioned earlier, OMW said in my exposure call to her that "Friendship" between WW & OM is okay with her.
OM undoubtedly is trying to paint me as unstable, crazy, who knows... I must assume that OMW would communicate the same things to my WW.
At any rate, Melody Lane and others have suggested that OMW should be included in NC policy, and again, I'd like some suggestions on how to phrase this.
I'm trying to do a good Plan A, and want to be direct and unwavering on my request without damaging my attempts to be a "safe" place for her. WW has stated specifically that she doesn't feel that sense with me.
Help...

Post deleted by trytoohard

What letter is this that you're writing? What is its purpose? Is it a Plan B letter?

What plan are you in, MarriageBuilders-wise?

I'm going to re-read your thread again, but help me out if you have time!

Here is the email I've written. Please feel free to critique and/ or offer suggestions for improvements.
Thanks in advance...

Newly edited version of above letter:
Please share your thoughts.
Thank you!

Hi Babe,

I thought email might be a better way to communicate, as I tend to get a little wordy sometimes when we talk, and I'd just like to be brief and to the point.

Regarding my request of you to have no contact, I want that to include (OMW) as well. I simply do not feel as though anything she would say could have any benefit to us improving our marriage, which is my singular focus. I base this on the general tone of her conversation with me, and the hail of petty insults that he was slinging at me when I called him the other day. His angry bashing of me in response to a calm request to allow us to try to fix our marriage without him involved, is further evidence to me that his relationship with you is not healty, and is not "friendly".
Our marriage cannot survive with him in it, and your continuing to contact him is killing the love I have for you. I want to be THE safe place for you to share your feelings, and we have agreed that our recovery can't really start until this thing with him is done.
I don't know how negatively they are painting me in this situation, and frankly I don't care. Neither of their opinions of me, no matter how skewed, matter to me.
What does matter to me is you, and taking positive steps toward improving our relationship.
I simply don't think any contact with either of them will help us do that, and will in fact set us back.
We can not afford to let that happen.
Please respect my wishes and honor this request.
I love you dearly, and am willing to do whatever is needed to restore and improve our love and family.

Love, ME

Tyk, et al -
The letter is basically a request for WW to include any contact with OMW in NC...

See my post from 8:28 this morning for more detail.
My edited version replaced OMW's name with (OMW) for privacy, and I added an additional sentence.

I am planning to email this to her as I tend to lose my train of thought sometimes when speaking to her...

Thanks again for your input. It has been extremely valuable to me. I hope to pay this all forward at some point.

I'm trying to be in Plan A...

Has she again agreed to not have contact, or is this another request by you that she agree to NC?

Do you mind if we go back to the basics of Plan A?

A letter isn't a terrible idea, but I don't think you want to send that one.

Plan A: You're meeting her needs, you're being friendly and pleasant, you're not expecting your needs to be met. You're SHOWING her that you can be a good husband. You're also showing yourself.

You're attacking the A with every tool at your disposal, exposing to all that can help, and refusing to enable the A.

You're not talking relationship, you're not fighting, you're not lovebusting.

If you want to send your W a letter, don't make it a request for her to do something. She KNOWS you don't want her in contact with OM. You've told her, she's agreed, she's gone back, she ALREADY KNOWS. Why add an additional condition on top of the one she's already not complying with?

If you want to send a letter, I'd make it very Plan A, very positive, reinforce the idea that you believe you can have a great marriage and tell her that you look forward to the time when you can work on things together.

I don't know, just my thoughts.

I am just unclear what this letter is really going to achieve. Its doubtful that it will generate good feelings toward you from your wife, and that is what you're trying to accomplish in Plan A.

She has not yet agreed (again) to NC. She has broken this countless times, including having sent two NC letters which were broken.
On Wed. she said that she doesn't want to promise to NC because she hasn't been able to honor it, and is afraid she'll fail again.

I think my point in requesting the NC to include OMW is based on my fear of what might be discussed, and how it might paint me in a more negative light to WW.
Clearly she is currently holding this SOB in a higher regard than she does me, and will hungrily gobble up anything that supports her position that her "friendship" with OM is OK, and I'm the problem.
I just want to make my boundaries clear to her.
Ambiguity has not been a good thing for us.

Something I was thinking in regards to OMW:

First, I can't believe she is so obtuse. I would be tempted to call her again, or send her a letter.

If I were to do so, I would say something like this:

"I understand that you believe your H and my W are "just friends", but I think its important that you understand something. She has confessed to having strong feelings for your H, feelings stronger than friendship. My W and I are having a crisis in our M as a direct result of thier "friendship". Whether or not you feel threatened by the "friendship" or not, you need to know that I have repeatedly asked my W to discontinue this friendship, and she has on multiple occasions promised to do so. She even quit her job to avoid contact with him. Each time she has broken her promise and resumed the friendship. I cannot know how your H feels about my W, but I do know that my W feels strongly enough about your H that she is knowingly risking her marriage and the future well being of our child by continuing this "friendship". Now, you might believe that your H is not to blame for my W's strong feelings for him, that might even be true, however, he is very aware of those feelings, and has at the very least not discouraged them. I would like you to consider something, simply from your own practical self interest.

I am unwilling to be married to a person that is emotionally attached to another man. If this situation cannot be resolved, if this friendship; and perhaps we should stop calling it that and recognize it for what it is, an extramarital affair, for true friendships do not destroy marriages; if this affair does not end, it is inevitable that my W and I will get divorced. What that will mean for you is that your H will be associating with a newly single, vulnerable affair partner that feels so strongly about him that she ended her marriage in order to persue her relationship with him. How comfortable are you with that? Are you comfortable with the idea that your H is allowing a woman to destroy a marriage based on her strong feelings for him?

I realize that you may not agree with my assessment of thier relationship, but your agreement regarding my concerns is not going to change the reality of the situation that is impacting both of our families and marriages. Thank you for hearing me out, if you wish to discuss this with me further I am willing to, otherwise I will not be contacting you again."

I understand, but as I said, she knows this. If you want to send a letter, I'd simply tell her that you love her and believe in the marriage and are trying very hard to improve yourself and look forward to the time when you can both work to make the marriage something that makes both of you happy, that you believe with all your heart that this is possible. Tell her that you have many ideas and a plan that will help you both achieve this and that you look forward to the time when she will make it possible for you both to start moving in that direction.

You see, there's no doubt in her mind that the OM has to go. NO DOUBT. There's no ambiguity. She's promised, reniged, quit her job, reniged, etc. She KNOWS.

OM's (and probably OMW's) position, is that I am the one who is destroying my marriage.
I think your letter is well written, and it really sums up the situation quite well. I am hesitant, to think that it might help to attempt contact again w/OMW.
after OM's blowup the other day, I am concerned about what repercussions might happen. Again, I can not risk my career to a restraining order or something.
I just don't know...

Unfortunately, WW has consistently said that she's attempted this because I want her to, not because she does.
She cites this as examples of my "controlling" her.
At this point, clearly her heart is not in to ending the contact, though she knows it's destroying us.

Then what is the point of asking again, is there any reason to expect a different result now?

I would not fear OM's actions. He is a coward and a liar, and will act as such. The point of the letter is to get the OMW to realize that no matter who she feels is "destroying the marriage", the marriage being destroyed is NOT in her best interest. Make of it what you will, maybe someone else sometime can make use of it.

Are you sick of this yet? Are you ready to bring the hammer down and force your W to begin to face the consequences of your decisions? If so, then plan B, if not, then Plan A and hope she comes around.

Personally, I think you should maybe put at least a little more time into a really dedicated Plan A before going to Plan B, as I worry that you may not be really SHOWING your W what a good H you can be. I'd send that letter to OMW too, and to ****** with what OM thinks or does about it. If you're really worried, buy a gun if you don't own one.

I purchased a gun while I was in Plan A. It was something I'd been considering anyway but felt that the situation warranted being prepared. My W saw it and said "what is THAT for?!" I just responded, "in case I have to shoot someone, what else?" Her eyes got real big but it was never brought up again. Anyhow. . back to you!

I really value your input, TYK.
I was really hoping to get several viewpoints on the letter. If I don't make clear waht my expectations are, how can I expect WW to know when she's violating them.
You raise a very important point in my not pushing her further away. I do want to be the safe place for her.
Perhaps I can delete all the "demands" of the letter, aned simply leave the positive parts.
I guess if she asks me why I sent it I might have another opportunity to address it.
We do have a counseling session tonight (though I doubt the efeectiveness of that so far), perhaps this environment might be a better place to include the bit about OMW.
Who knows, she may have already spoken to her...

Yup yup! I'll shuddup now! :P