The Christmas shopping thing is a red flag. We always say here to pay attention around Christmas, because THAT is when the affairees buy each other presents. We have even had a couple of cases here where the WS bought the wife and the OW the same thing. YUCK!

He will never imagine the pain you feel, or care much about it as long as the affair continues.

You could look at the odometer on his car, and see if the mileage he puts on it corresponds to the distance to the OW's place.

In fact, you might want to invest in a GPS and install it in his vehicle. That way you will know where he goes and how much time he spends there. THAT can be your Christmas surprise to him.

Hi Bella,

Venting via a journal here (and off line) is a good thing....(In fact I even started a new journal on the recovery forum tonight.) It would also be good to read specific threads that have info for newly betrayed, especially spouses who are still possibly still involved in the A.

Here is a thread by Longhorn which has links to a thread called Spying 101. Many times, that's what it will take for you to get hard evidence so you can confront your WH.

Longhorn's Thread for Newly betrayed spouses

Please keep posting, even if it's slow between replies. We do care and you can see by the log on the general index how many people are reading. Believer has been giving you great suggestions. She is one of the forum's veteran posters who has helped many recover their marriages. Listen to what she says and follow through. More will post as you learn these concepts, ask specific questions and acknowledge posters who reply as well as follow through on suggestions made.

Best wishes,

Ace

ok i am going to try this again and hopefully it doesn't get deleted.

I'd like to thank everyone that keeps posting to me. I greatly appreciate each and everyone's input. Most of the spying techniques suggested are a little difficult for me to implement. I know he doesn't talk to her on his cell or our house phone as i have access to both accounts and check them frequestnly. She has a long distance phone number and at work it is blocked from toll and long distance phone calls. He could still be talking to her some other way but i am not sure.

Last night when i got home from work he was in such a foul mood. It was the kind of mood he used to be in when i first found out about the A and he i knew he was still talking to the OW. I got upset ( i know i shouldn't but i did) and he asked why. I tried to avoid the topic but then he was beince nice and asked again i told him. Well bad move. He blew up saying i was reading too much into things and i was blowing things out of proportion. That i was never going to change making a mountain out of a mole hill. yada yada. He said he appreciated all of the things i had been doing for him but that i was trying to hard. He said that they weren't me or at least he didn't know who i was. I responded by saying well maybe you'd like to get to know me. He just staired at me. He still blames me for changing him into this person that he doesn't like.

Also a little while later he asked me what i wanted for xmas. My answer to him was i wanted him. All he said was that he couldn't promise me that i could have that. It's like he is punishing me and testing me to see if the changes will hold up since i am back to work. I am just so tired of the pain and lack of affection

I guess my questions tonight are is this going to last forever or are his moods secondary to withdral? HOw will i know if and when he is going to make a turn for the better? I know no one here has all those answers but those are the ones i am searching for tonight.

Bella,

There are things you can do to speed up parts of the unknown. If I've mentioned them before, consider thess ideas a warm-up:

* Educate yourself.

* Consider what you want and what you need. (Big difference.)

* Take action.

* Evaluate your options.

At any rate, keep posting. I can't remember if you said you are or are not in marriage counseling. You might consider investing in sessions with Jennifer Chalmers or Steve Harley (Dr. Harley's son and daughter.) That would be my first suggestion. Or you could call the radio show and ask your most pressing questions directly to Dr. and Mrs. Harley (and it's free!).

Ace

Bella - I believe he is still active in his affair. His refusal to write a no-contact number and spending time away alone unaccounted for...... ALL BAD.

Bella,
You will know when you ARE in recovery, and that will be when your now WS will be glad to tell you who he is on the computer with. Transparency is major. I have to agree with Mr. Kahuna, although I would not have been so blunt, LOL. Anyway, you need to do a bit more snooping and exposing. Please understand that a GPS and/or a recorder for the vehicle would be a wise investment at this time.

You have a right to snoop as you are the wife, and you have everything at your fingertips to save your marriage.

Listen to what these people are telling you here.

You are WORTHY.

Love in Christ,
Miss M

Hey Miss M,

Howzit? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

An update??!?/1?! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

L.

Hi Bella, and BK, Miss M, Orchid and others....

A week ago you posted this:


You can change your thread title for 60 days when you want to ask a new question that you want listed in the index.

1. Go to your first page post.

2. Click on Edit.

3. Put your cursor in the little title box.

4. Highlight/delete old title and retype your new one.

Charlotte changes her title by the minute. She was enabling her H until about page 7, I think. If you do not snoop and spy, you are enabling your H's affair, too.

Best case scenario is that you find the truth. Worst case is that he has gone so far underground (hidden new untraceable trac fone) and you lose all your love for him before you find out. Your marriage will die if/when that happens.

Check out Mishes' thread on the GQII forum entitled "Tired and don't know what to do" or something like that. Her WH hid his contact for 2 years and faked her out (false recoveries)...but in her gut, she knew things were not right. Now he has confessed, moved back home and is willing to get help. Sexymamabears WH (tst) had a more dramatic de-fogging experience.

You have a choice Bella. Posters will share what worked for them/us, but it's ultimately up to you. What is your marriage worth? If you want to save it, become a spy. If not, your M may die.....and it could be a very slow agonizing death.

I'm sorry to be so morbid and I hope you know I'm sharing this 'worst case scenario' because I care.

If things get slow over this weekend, read, read read. You can read for weeks and you'll eventually understand what folks are tying to say. These concepts are very unusual compared to what you'll hear from other sources. But Dr. Harley's track record beats them all.

AND....he offers all of this to us for free because he cares. Please take advantage of this site and these forums.

Best Wishes, Bella.

Ace

[color:"red"]Edited to add Mishes' thread link. [/color]

well i tried to post last night and it got lost so i am going to try again. Since the other day my husband had started to read my posts on here. He says he wasn't mad but that he was concerned that peole on her are only hearing about the affair. My first thread on here outlined where i had made mistakes in our relationship. He is not trying to justify his A and says that he should have just left before hand. That hurts just as much because i look at it as just another person in my life willing to give up on me.


Well we went to see our MC this past week. My husband was running a little late but he did show up in plent of time and we had our session. The one thing that surprised me the most was that he had his wedding band on. He has not worn it in months. Both he and the counselor said not to look to much into it but i have to admit it made me feel good. He was asked how his mood has been and he the counselor began to list what i call the rollercoaster of emotions. He said that he missed the OW a lot and that he has a hard time getting over people he falls in love with. When he said that i looked at him and said but you didn't have a hard time getting over me? He stated that he knew i was going to say that and he didn't have an answer. That hurt me a lot. I know he is being honest but it still really hurts. He said he is lonely at home and i said he isn't the only one and that for the most part he doesn't want to be there. (still cause the OW isn't there is my guess). When asked why he was still there he said that he was here because it is what everyone told him to do. To give things a chance, but he didn't know how long he would be here cause he feels like he is back to where he was a year ago feeling miserible.

The counselor then discussed some of his suspecious behaviors and told my H that if he is going to act suspecious then i am going to snoop and be suspecious. He should be honest instead. He asked him probably 10 times if he had any contact with the OW ... phone, text, email, or IM. He has denied it. That was when he initially started to get upset and began to get teary eyed.

I love him so much it hurts. He had asked me what i wanted for xmas. I told him i didn't want anything that the only thing i wanted was him. I had to explain to him that i didn't want the "i love you" i just want him to say he is going to stay in it for the long hall. That he wants to be there with me and raise our family together. I know the love can come back and the counselor has said the same thing. He tried to get him to realize what we had in the begining. He asked us to tell him about our first date and my H knew every detail down to what i was wearing. He smiled when he was talking about it.

With that said in mind he asked me out on a date... well sorta. He asked me to go out with him tonight, not sure what we are going to do but it is the first time in a long time that he has done that. I stopped asking cause i figured he would ask me when he was ready.

I just want to know how to trust him fully again. I know i am nieve in thinking that i can trust him right now but i do. I don't know why i do but i do.

When i am home and have time all i do is read everything on this website. I have been reading SAA and the begining is hard for me to read because it is a similar situation that i am in. I haven't finished the book yet but i am hoping that my situation ends well. Is it wise for me to see if he would read the book? or is this a book just for BS?

Well, Miss Bella, if he feels like only one side of the story is being told here, he can always post his side. It is an open board, and doesn't cost a dime.

You see, the affair IS the problem with the marriage right now. He is the typical WS that we have seen here a thousand times - he thinks HIS sleazy affair is different.

And you can't trust him AT ALL until he proves himself trustworthy. The problem is, if he continues contact with the OW, you will most likely lose all of your love for him, divorce him and move on to someone who is interested in having a happy marriage.

Leave the book around for him to check out. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

As for that 'feeling', he will have it as long as he hold onto.... to the love but the virus, the germ that the A has infected him with. Yea.... that is what he is really holding onto.

Like having a high fever and thinking you can walk on air, then try to do so by climbing to the top of the stairs (if you have a 2 story home), then trying to fly down. YIKES!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Of course everyone is going to try to stop someone who is doing that. The A is just as dangerous if not more so. Think a delirious person would really know how they are jeopardizing themselves? Should they be left alone to take care of themselves as they aimlessly wander around? NO!

Why? Because in time, with the right help and with rest, the fever will break. In time the A feelings will die but he has to work not rest on his R and M with you. He has to kill the A virus.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Tell him. Let him read this if it is easier. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

take care,
L.

Thanks for all the input. I have suggested that he post on here and he said maybe. He had told me that he was going to post to mine that we should "burn the A****** at the stake" i suggested that instead of writing that that maybe he should post something meaningful. That there are people on the board that are cheating or have cheated on their spouses. He just nodded. He has been on the website before lookinf ro help. I am hoping that one day he will try posting.

It is much better if he stays OFF your thread and you stay OFF his thread, if he ever decides to post. But if he doesn't post, then he really shouldn't complain that we are only hearing one side of the story. There are always 2 sides, but ADULTERY is never the answer.

And the thing is, he and his affair partner have less than a 3% chance of every being together long term. Of course, all of the affairees think THEY won't be in the 97% who are miserable and regret the affair.

Well i don't think he will be posting anytime soon if at all. I don't have anything to hide from him so he is more than welcome to look on here at my thread. I'm sure he will at any rate just because he is curious to know what i am saying. What it all boils down to is that i love this man very much and i can't imagine my life without him. It scares me to death to think that one day it could be just that..... a life without him.

Alot of the problems in our marriage/relationship i failed to recognize and i failed to address the ones i did see properly. He has even told me that that is no excuse for the affair. But that it will take him a long time to get over the OW cause he was in love with her and she didn't hurt him like i did. He is certain that things would work out between the two of them but he is afraid that staying with me things would not work out. I know his fear cause i am living that right now and i don't like how that feels.

We went on a date saturday night and we had a good time. It was late by the time we went out but it was just the two of us, the baby went to a friends house for a few hours. We just went to dinner sat and talked a little bit and then went and looked at christmas lights for a few. IT was a relaxing time and i believe he enjoyed himself as well.

The question i have tonight is that we don't really talk about our relationship or the affair really. Are we supposed to ever talk about it outside of MC? I don't dare bring it up. If we are supposed to talk about it how often and what about the R are we supposed to talk about?

You are doing a great job. What he doesn't realize is the affair was just a fantasy. His "in love" feeling would never last. The OW is a human too, and was probably showing only her good side. Most of them turn into real B*****'s when they have the MM in their clutches and the wife is out of the picture. Often they dump the MM too.

You will need to talk about the affair. You need to end up with a marriage that is better than before, or why go through all of the pain?

I completely agree with you believer about talking about the affair. And he says that no one believes that he was "in love" with the OW. As for the B**** side of her well the one time i did talk to her she had told my husband she had a message for me. WHen i talked to her she wanted to tell me that i was pyscho and unfit to be a mother. Mind you i had only had my child for 7 weeks when this all happened. He wasn't happy about it and tried to tell her that she was wrong and that i was more than capable of taking care of my daughter. Her response to that was it was her opinion and she is entitled to it and he can't change her mind of that. when i looked at his text messages later she had told him that they only reason she hadn't called children services on me was because he was still there and she didn't want to hurt him.

He has also told me that their relationship wasn't easy, that they would argue but the nice thing about their arguments was that once it was done it was done and they could move on to another conversation. There was no yelling or anything just verbal disagreements from the sounds of it.

I am doing my best to do a good plan A and i have the details of the affair i think i would ever want to know. I can't say taht when i get angry i don't want to know more but i know that there are somethings better left alone.

I love my husband to death and i just wish he could/would say the same. He is in such a good mood any more kinda like when we were first together and i just hope it is real and not for show.

I want more than anything in the world a marriage that is better than anything before. I have heard that if we make it through this the love in the marriage is more than you can ever imagine. I just hope it is all true and that he falls in love with me again, and i now know how to keep it that way or at least try.

Well unfortunately i can't sleep, my daughter has started to decide 4 am is a good time to wake up for the morning and play. I tried to explain to her that this is still sleep time but i guess at 11 weeks it's hard to understand that.

So i am going to be productive and try and keep writing. I am trying to do a really good plan A not for my husband but for myself, if he realizes the kind of person i really am and feels like joining in on our little family than great, if not his loss.

I am tryin my best to get in the xmas spirit more for my daughter this year as it is her first but it is tough. I love this time of year and everything that goes along with it, and when i was pg i couldn't wait to have the baby's first xmas. Now it just seems like i am going through the motions and i am just hoping that it catches on with me and i get excited about it once again. I guess the other problem i have with it is that this will be the first year i won't get to see my parents and siblings on xmas. Not for a lack or time of wanting to go but because neither my WH nor my family want to communicate right now. WH has told me that if my family starts with him he has a few choice words for them, so their will not be any communication on either of their parts right now. It's tough cause it makes my life that more complicated as my family thought of my WH as another son or brother. They feel betrayed as well for themselves as they do for me. They feel that if once the A was discovered that if he came back with his "tail between" his legs and appologized they wouldn't feel this way. But he was doing a lot of fence sitting in the begining and it tore me apart because one min he was tellng me he wanted to work things out the next he said he didn't have it in him and it was over. I just don't know how to help my family get over this especially if things truely do work out in the end with WH. Any advice in this department would be helpful. My MIL feels that my family should just forgive and forget that it was between us two and not them. BUt my family is close and we are protective of each other.

Well have a good day and thanks to all those who read and do post to me.

Ok so last night my husband called me to find out what i wanted to do. He has been really good he even bought me flowers for no reason the other day. At any rate he told me that a person that works with the OW was talking to him and in the conversation they told him that she got hurt at work and was at the hospital. Well of course that sent a sharp pain up my spine just the mention of her name. I said ok and that i wish they hadn't told you that. He said well they knew that he and her used to "talk." I said well they do they know that you aren't talking to her any more? He said yes. I said well then they shouldn't have felt the need to tell you. Of course it upset me and he could tell on the phone. He said i shouldn't have told you and i said i appreciate you telling me but it does hurt me. He was still at work trying to get out of work so he hung up but continued the converstation on IM. I said i wished they hadn't told you cause i know you think about her all the time as it is and this is just going to make it worse. He told me well he isn't sitting there worrying about her it was just in passing in the conversation.

Well when he called me on his way back home he said he know something had been wrong before he told me that. I told him some days i just have said days. I am just said about how things are especially after having a new baby. He asked me what i wanted him to do. I said all i want is for you to hug me tight and tell me you are sorry and that everything is going to be ok. That you are the only one right now that can make me understand and make me feel better. He said he understood.

Now my question is does the NC clock start all over again? or is unwarrented or unsolicited info about the OW just that? I just don't know if the NC was broken or not. Most everyone we know knows the two of them and NOW knows that they were involved while i was pregnant. So I am sure that some of the guys will say things to him either as a joke or just to see how he reaacts. Does each of those instances count as breaking NC?

bella, it is not contact unless he is in contact with the OW. It might help if he told his "friends" at work that his affair is over and to keep it to themselves. He can let them know he is committed to his marriage and stop the talk very easily.