I just got off the phone with my WW because we had to set up an appointment to go sign the mortgage. I asked her how she was doing after last night. She said she deserved what she got from our DD but could not stay knowing that she didn't feel the way she should for me. I know about no expectations, but that felt like my heat was being ripped out. I told her that I understand and left it at that.
Today was not too bad until then. I feel the void in my chest now, she's really doing this. IT HURTS!!!

She's planning on stopping in at the bank to open up her own account, then going to set up a new cell phone plan. I feel like I'm dying just a little bit more every time she takes one more step towards leaving. The hardest part is that my heart wants to beg and plead, but my head is telling me otherwise. So I just tell her that I'll see her when she gets home. Was I right to have her put her paycheck in her new account? Staying home and saving money for her to pay for first and last.

I really feel the roller coaster effect today. Felt OK this morning, like someone ripped out my heart this afternoon back to OK tonight. It was a good night. Maximized plan A, made her supper, had a chat about how her day was, talked about the reaction of my DD last night, and helped her figure out a few features on her new phone. No relationship talks, just listen, affirm and roll with the punches.

I think it's starting to sink in....

NO EXPECTATIONS!!!
Thanks to all especially Mark!

TMTS I hope Mark checks back in with your latest posts. IMO I don't think helping her get her ducks in a row to leave is good, but I do not have the experience that others here do.

(((prayers for you)))

Now that you mention it, I think you’re onto something... I should have let her deal with her run in with my DD and left her with figuring out the phone on her own. Worse than that I told her the phone was an early Christmas present from our daughters... stupid, stupid, stupid!!!

AHHH don't go down the stupid road....let's see what the more experienced say, ok?

We ALL make mistakes (if that is what this is). Just take a deep breath.

IF and that's a BIG if I'm on to something here, I think it would be...
Plan A WW! That doesn't mean HELP her destroy your M further. So that means if she's going, she does it alone, she gets all her things in order alone. YOU WANT her to want to stay in the M. Doing things alone is suppose to give her a taste of missing you and everything your M is about. You will still be nice, love her, no LBing, DJing or anything, but reiterate (sp) you want your M to WORK. Her leaving is not going to make that an easy task in most cases.
IMO also you can comfort your DD, you can comfort your WW if there is a scene, BUT you have to let WW be responsible for the consequences.
BUT PLEASE remember I'm a fairly newbie here...I'm sure Mark will check in when he can. Hold off on any other decisions/conversations regarding the above UNTIL someone more experienced than me chimes in.
PLAN A can be very confusing. You may need a few more pointers to get the whole concept.
(((prayers)))

This is where I have trouble. She is adamant that she needs to leave, both for herself and because "she doesn't want to cause me any more pain" by being there. I've done much better in the last two days in not showing the pain she has caused, but sometimes it's hard. I understand that I should not bring up relationship issues and focus on ENs, not LBs or DJs... with no expectations. I have stated to her that I do not want her to leave, and that I want to work on our marriage, but the answer I get is that she just does not feel she can get her heart into committing to doing so.

She seems to be enjoying this new found independence, and blind to what is going on in the house. Much of what I do for her ENs is on the domestic side of things. I am working hard on making sure that when we do talk that I give her my full attention and I don't suggest any solutions, I just listen. I am back to giving her the odd arm and should touch, but as far as showing affection that's as far as I dare to take it right now.

I'm not very confident that she will see what she is missing until it's too late, but I'm not giving up.

Thanks for your support.

TMTS,

MVG was right on with her advice.

If she wants to leave, you can't stop her. But unless you WANT her to leave, don't HELP her.

Agreeing with her that she must go is NOT any of the ENs you need to meet.

And not helping her pack is not a LBs.

You take the pressure off of HER and keep the pressure on the AFFAIR.

When would it be too late? If she files for divorce, it will take a while to get it finalized. Then Dr H says that the window of opportunity may remain for up to two years after the divorce is final. He recommends stopping after two years because he figures that you need to eventually move on yourself and two years is long enough to wait for anybody.

My point is that it is over when you say it is over. Even if she is granted a divorce, you only stop trying when you have had enough and not before.

This is what I've been trying to get you to understand. Plan A and Plan B are specific things that you do no matter what she does or says. What you do is not dependent on what she does or says. You do your part, let her do...whatever...

An analogy for you from baseball.

It's late in the game and your team is down by 3 runs. The mistake young players make is still being made by big leaguers every season. What you need is 3 runs to tie and 4 to win. You can't get 3 or 4 runs all by yourself in one at bat. The pitcher is tired (or cold because they just replaced the starter) and guys swing at the first pitch...

Think base runners...Think, walk...Think, wait for a pitch I can drive...

The teams that win those games are not the ones with 4 sluggers in a row in the middle of the line up. They are the ones that get a walk, a single, another walk and a double, followed by another single and a sac-fly. One batter at a time, one pitch at a time, one run at a time...No home runs, no grand slams, no 3 run triples...small ball is the key to winning consistently.

Your part is to do your part. You don't care what the score is. You don't care what the other team has planned. You only need to do what you need to do. Take care of your own part and let her worry about whether or not she is doing the right thing. (We know, but she has to decide)

You don't need any home runs. You only need to outlast her fog.

That help?

Mark

Thanks MVG and Mark,

WW wants to open her own bank account and stat putting her paycheck in there to save up for first and last. I'm thinking that in a way this is helping her to put things in place to leave, but on the other side of that coin, I'm nervous that if I push to get her to pay for some of the expenses (especially when my salary can cover them on it's own) that it will have the effect of pushing her away.

I'm really having trouble with this one...can I get your thoughts please?

Thanks Mark,

I think your last line says it all. I'm waiting for her to turn on a switch in her head when she can't even see where the switch is located.

Let her do what she's going to do...No expectations, just keep it up. (It helps me when I type in too)

Are the expenses normally shared? If so, continue to do so until she leaves.

Stop ENABLING her departure!

No they have traditionally been pay by my salary alone. She started back to work about 6 months ago and her salary has been going to paying down credit card debt. Before all this went down, we refinanced the mortgage to pay off the credit cards (It is closing on Friday). My fear is that if I start this up, she will then come after me for a legal separation with division of assets and alimony.

Translation: Your WW wanted to secure her finances and keep her salary to herself, so she went along with the mortgage refinancing to pay off the debt.

If your WW is living in the home and she has a job, it is not unreasonable to request that she part part of the household expenses.

Thanks for the post MIM.

I completely understand where you are coming from, and my heart and mind want to do exactly what you are suggesting. My fear is the repercussions which will basically put me in a position to have to find $50K to pay her out then look at the possibility of alimony. Neither of which I can afford to do. I know that putting this kind of squeeze on her will bring this to the next level. (I've got a call into a lawyer to see what exactly my rights and obligations towards her would be).

I really don't know what to do with this. Please help!!!

Last Sunday is when she told me that she wanted to separate and that she didn't think she could put her heart into trying to fix the M. Since that time she has been sleeping in the basement (She was ready to move in with a neighbor, but I talked her out if it). Would it be appropriate to offer for her to come bare to my bed? And if so when?

Thanks

I know this was a typo, but I'm sure it was what you were thinking. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

I don't know if it would do any good or not. You might want to suggest to her that she is welcome in the bed any time she wants to be there, but then drop it. Let her know that she will be accepted, but don't push for it.

Don't push for anything other than NC and only state it respectfully.

You need to let her know you are willing to forgive when she is ready to repent so that she knows that she will be able to stay and you aren't going to leave her over this. At the same time, you need to not spend all your time together rehashing the recovery options and make her time with you more enjoyable than her time with AP.

That is the goal of Plan A, to make you the better option. The fact that you have a history together can be both a blessing and a curse. Anything you did in the past in the way of LBs, especially DJs and AOs will work against you. But you also have memories of good times together that are in your favor. You need to recreate the second while doing away with the former. Once she sees the new you in action, then what you once shared will begin to blow away the fog a bit.

Refresh me...Is she still in contact with AP?

The affair is your enemy, not your W. Plan A your W, Plan B the WW...Get it?

Mark

Ok, I get it. Thanks for your guidance. The NO EXPECTATIONS alone is helping me get closer to where I need to be with Plan A.

Mark can you please let me know your thoughts on the expenses issue, and is it a good idea to send her a copy of truehear's letter (In notable posts)?

Much thanks.

TMTS,

I don't know that sending her a copy would do any good. It would likely be seen as trying to educate her and as a means of manipulation.

It might not hurt to print it out and leave it where she can find it. I did that with a lot of material early on. Some she read, some she never did, but even when she did read it, she never came back to me to say anything positive or negative.

The problem you face is that while you can see what is really taking place because you have educated yourself about the dynamics of affairs and the like, she has to want to be educated before anything will sink in. Before then no matter what you try to get her to read will be seen as manipulation and will be resisted; she will build the wall higher and stronger.

You are looking at this logically, which is good for you. She, on the other hand, is looking at all of this purely based on her emotions. When you make her feel unhappy, that is all she knows about it. She doesn't care if it makes sense, because she feels unhappy around you. Your goal in Plan A is to make her feel happy around you, in fact, happier than with AP. She has to feel like she is safe in staying and that by doing so, the future will be better than if she leaves, not just for you, but for her as well.

It will be what you do...your actions, that will make the difference. She doesn't care how much you know until she knows how much you care...

FWIW, I can't even get my wife to finish reading FIL/SIL.

Mark

Almost forgot...

re: expenses...

I agree with MIM, which is why I didn't comment earlier.

What about NC? Who can still be exposed to?

Mark