gotta give my little man a bath and get him to bed. I will be back on sometime after 9 CST

Missalot,

Counter-intuitive, just means that sometimes, what you feel like doing and what has been shown to work in recovering your marriage are not the same thing.

We all know what you feel like and that your feelings can drive your actions, but if you are able to slow down and let the smart people here, help you create a plan of action. You have a better chance to recover.

Ryan

Until one has experience with infidelity, all the stuff here is in direct opposition to what your normal reactions would be. I know I badly failed my niece when she went through it. I told her to throw the bum out and couldn't understand why she was depressed for two years.

When I first came here, I thought the folks here were CRAZY. But as I read and watched, I saw people saving their marriages!

can you direct me to any threads that are similar to my situation that I could read? Ones that have ended in success? Maybe for a little more inspiration and advice thru their threads too? I think it ould help me SEE the hope and success better. And possibly give me direction. I am not too sure what I should have as a plan of action.

There are hundreds of success stories here. Many are on the recovery thread. Many people save their marriage and don't post anymore. People posting in GQII tend to be in the midst of it all.

There is a very high percentage of men that come back to their families.

Your job is to hang in there, take good care of yourself and get strong to fight this.

You've had two of the most terrible things happen to you that a person can go through. This is not going to be easy. But it CAN be done.

Are your parents supportive of your marriage?

I will work on reading some of the recovery threads.
My parents...well, I am not too sure. I am living with my mother and she has been drinking way too much. It really bothers me so I do not talk to her about it. She always has stupid drunk comments that tend to just bash my WH. My father lives about an hour away and he is a recovering alcoholic (2 years next week). he has just been a small part of my life the last year. He knows what is going on and is trying to help me financially but I am not comfortable talking to him about my plan to stay married. My WH's parents dont know either. I plan to tell them but it has been so cold and our plans to talk keep getting canceled cuz of the cold. (they dont like to go out of the house when it is this cold) I dont think they will be too suupportive. They tend to want whatever their boys want even i fthey do not think it is the best for them. Kinda razy!

Has your mom been drinking for a long time? Another reason you need to be in your home. But I realize you will get there when you get there.

Your husband's parents need to know, so put that on your list. And they probably won't be much help. Often that happens.

In the meantime, stick with us and you will get stronger. You are going to have to make a personal recovery first.

She has had some problems with it the last 5 years or so but I did not realize how bad it had become till a few weeks after I moved in. I talked to her about it but no such luck.of course. I guess she started drinking pretty heavy after Nattie(our daughter) died.
Not sure what you mean by peresonal recovery. How do I go about it?

Plan A is all about personal recovery. You need to concentrate on making yourself a more attrative person, firstly for yourself. I like to think of the plans A & B about being all for YOU first and foremost. But inevitably, that attractiveness will radiate from you.

That is what will make you more attractive to your husband. Not being needy. Concentrate on you. Thats all you can control at the moment. I'm sure the rest will follow

Work on the grief first. Accept that you made a mistake and your daughter died. Forgive yourself. Parents all over the world do or don't do things that might cause harm to their children. Usually nothing happens. In your case it did. You can't change that.

But you can move on and make a happy life for your son and you. And hopefully your hubby.

It's a heavy burden. YOU are going to have to be the one to put on the oxygen mask and fight for your marriage and your family.

mvg-Sometimes all I want to do is vent but most of the time I want advice. I just don't know what advice I need yet. I am not good at expressing what I need. I feel like I am at a stand-still and that there is no advice for me right now and that TERRIFIES me.
as far as the OW in the pic...the only form that she is in the picture is thru work. Nothing more as of right now. I do not know how to change the work situation.
I guess I feel sorry for myself and am VERY sensitive right now and tend to take things a bit harsher than they are meant???
As far as needing help...idunno...I just need lots of encouragement. I think our situation is so different and delicate. And I constantly am wondering if I am doing the right thing by wanting to try? I constantly have questions but I have been told that I don't need to make things so complicated so now I don't ask a whole lot. I am the kind of person who almost needs things to be dug up sometimes. I don't always think to volunteer info.
Thanks,Theresa

missalot I'm glad you came back. Venting is fine, just remember the folks here are willing to help YOU save your M. They are giving you great advice. Take heed.

Being scared of what to do and what not to do is normal here. MB is a new concept for you and sometimes to work the plan doesn't feel fair. The fairness comes at the end where you are recovering your M, or have accepted there is nothing more you can do but did your best.

Most everyone when they first come here are very sensative. Their life at that point is horrible. Sometimes you will get a few wacks with 2x4's here as awake up call that the way you are thinking or acting is NOT the MB way. Don't take it as harsh, take it as redirecting you to the right path.

Your situation is only different in the fact you are dealing with the lost of a child on top of an A. Statistically, couples that lose a child end in D. The pressure and blaming is just to much for them to endure. IT DOESN"T HAVE TO BE THOUGH. You can recover if you WORK the MB plan. Let the veterans here help you do that.

If you have questions post them anyway! Sometimes it takes awhile for folks to catch on to the MB prinicpals, asking the questions lets the responders know you still need help in understanding the principals of MB.

Remember this is a forum of ordinary people who have been where you are and survived. We all try to help.

Keep posting you'll get help. (((missalot)))

missalot - there have been others on the system who have lost children and hopefully they will see your thread and be able to talk with you a little. Following is a story I posted many years ago. I hope that you find some comfort, even if it's just a tiny little bit of comfort in it.

God bless.


This was one of my favorites from the beginning of our recovery time. It still is my number one favorite of all the messages. I hope it helps some of you too.

#1332 The Blessing Of Thorns
=======================

Sandra felt as low as the heels of her shoes as she pushed against a November gust and the florist shop door. Her life had been easy, like a spring breeze. Then in the fourth month of her second pregnancy, a minor automobile accident stole her ease.

During this Thanksgiving week she would have delivered a son. She grieved over her loss. As if that weren't enough, her husband's company threatened a transfer. Then her sister, whose annual holiday visit she coveted, called saying she could not come.

What's worse, Sandra's friend infuriated her by suggesting her grief was a God-given path to maturity that would allow her to empathize with others who suffer. "She has no idea what I'm feeling," thought Sandra with a shudder.

"Thanksgiving? Thankful for what?" she wondered aloud. For a careless driver whose truck was hardly scratched when he rear-ended her? For an airbag that saved her life but took that of her child?

"Good afternoon, can I help you?"

The shop clerk's approach startled her.

"I....I need an arrangement, "stammered Sandra. "For Thanksgiving?

Do you want beautiful but ordinary, or would you like to challenge the day with a customer favorite I call the Thanksgiving Special?" asked the shop clerk.

"I'm convinced that flowers tell stories," she continued.

"Are you looking for something that conveys 'gratitude' this Thanksgiving?

"Not exactly!" Sandra blurted out. "In the last five months, everything that could go wrong has gone wrong. " Sandra regretted her outburst, and was surprised when the shop clerk said, "I have the perfect arrangement for you."

Then the door's small bell rang, and the shop clerk said, "Hi Barbara...let me get your order." She politely excused herself and walked toward a small workroom, then quickly reappeared, carrying an arrangement of greenery, bows, and long-stemmed thorny roses.

Except the ends of the rose stems were neatly snipped...there were no flowers.

"Want this in a box?" asked the clerk.

Sandra watched for the customer's response. Was this a joke? Who would want rose stems with no flowers!?! She waited for laughter, but neither woman laughed. "Yes, please," Barbara replied with an appreciative smile.

"You'd think after three years of getting the special, I wouldn't be so moved by its significance, but I can feel it right here, all over again," she said as she gently tapped her chest.

"Uhh," stammered Sandra, "that lady just left with, uhh... she just left with no flowers!"

"Right...I cut off the flowers. That's the Special... I call it the Thanksgiving Thorns Bouquet.

"Oh, come on, you can't tell me someone is willing to pay for that?" exclaimed Sandra.

"Barbara came into the shop three years ago feeling very much like you feel today," explained the clerk. "She thought she had very little to be thankful for. She had lost her father to cancer, the family business was failing, her son was into drugs, and she was facing major surgery."

"That same year I had lost my husband, "continued the clerk," and for the first time in my life, I had to spend the holidays alone. I had no children, no husband, no family nearby, and too great a debt to allow any travel.

"So what did you do?" asked Sandra. "I learned to be thankful for thorns," answered the clerk quietly. "I've always thanked God for good things in life and never thought to ask Him why those good things happened to me, but when bad stuff hit, did I ever ask! It took time for me to learn that dark times are important.

I always enjoyed the 'flowers' of life, but it took thorns to show me the beauty of God's comfort. You know, the Bible says that God comforts us when we're afflicted, and from
His consolation we learn to comfort others.

"Sandra sucked in her breath as she thought about the very thing her friend had tried to tell her. "I guess the truth is I don't want comfort.

I've lost a baby and I'm angry with God."

Just then someone else walked in the shop.

"Hey, Phil!" shouted the clerk to the balding, rotund man.

"My wife sent me in to get our usual Thanksgiving arrangement ....twelve thorny, long-stemmed stems!" laughed Phil as the clerk handed him a tissue-wrapped arrangement from the refrigerator.

"Those are for your wife?" asked Sandra incredulously. "Do you mind me asking why she wants something that looks like that?

"No...I'm glad you asked," Phil replied. "Four years ago my wife and I nearly divorced. After forty years, we were in a real mess, but with the Lord's grace and guidance, we slogged through problem after problem.

He rescued our marriage. Jenny here (the clerk) told me she kept a vase of rose stems to remind her of what she learned from "thorny" times, and that was good enough for me. I took home some of those stems. My wife and I decided to label each one for a specific "problem" and give thanks to Him for what that problem taught us."

As Phil paid the clerk, he said to Sandra, "I highly recommend the Special!"

"I don't know if I can be thankful for the thorns in my life." Sandra said to the clerk. "It's all too... fresh."

"Well," the clerk replied carefully, "my experience has shown me that thorns make roses more precious. We treasure God's providential care more during trouble than at any other time.

Remember, it was a crown of thorns that Jesus wore so we might know His love. Don't resent the thorns."

Tears rolled down Sandra's cheeks. For the first time since the accident, she loosened her grip on resentment. "I'll take those twelve long-stemmed thorns, please," she managed to choke out.

"I hoped you would," said the clerk gently. "I'll have them ready in a minute."

"Thank you. What do I owe you?" asked Sandra.

"Nothing." said the clerk.

"Nothing but a promise to allow God to heal your heart. The first year's arrangement is always on me. "The clerk smiled and handed a card to Sandra.

"I'll attach this card to your arrangement, but maybe you'd like to read it first."

It read:

"Dear God, I have never thanked you for my thorns. I have thanked you a thousand times for my roses, but never once for my thorns. Teach me the glory of the cross I bear; teach me the value of my thorns. Show me that I have climbed closer to you along the path of pain.

Show me that, through my tears, the colors of your rainbow look much more brilliant."

Author Unknown

"the Bible says that God comforts us when we're afflicted, and from His consolation we learn to comfort others." This is why I try to help where I can. We've all been there, are there, or will be. May you all find God's comfort in your time of need.

ForeverHers

mvg-
I have done some research on divorce after the loss of a child and it actually surprised me. over 80 percent do NOT divorce. However, if you look at a national statistic on marriage alone, over 50 percent of marriages end up in divorce. I believe that most of the time divorce happens cuz the people in the marriage are not given the proper tools to communicate a major issue. And we tend to take the "easy" way out. But let me tell ya somethin, Divorce is ALOT more work than trying to work out all the problems with a spouse.

Should I let my WH know about MB and all the research I have done? Or is it too soon??
I have started to see some changes with him over the last couple days.

Wait awhile before you share the site with him. Think of it as your secret weapon to restore your marriage. He will see the fruits of your labors and realize its value.

That was a wonderful story, ForeverHers.

I agree with Bellevue. Wait. Keep working on yourself, and be sure you are on the path to healing.

What changes have you seen?

He came to pick up our son today and I went to put the carseat in the truck for him while he was getting our son ready and he had a Christan radio station on. NOT LIKE HIM AT ALL!!! I was so impressed that he has started taking an interest in a new found Faith! He has been kind and curtious and Praying with our son. When I get off the phone with our son he always wants to talk to me. Not about much other than next day plans but that is alot more than a few weeks ago. Just the fact that HE is choosing to talk to ME! And when my H is talking to our son on the phone, he asks him(our son) to give the phone back to mommie! So we will visit about each others day and how it went and then b4 he says goodby, he will say "Hope you have a good night" or I'll talk to you soon.
Is this good? or am I reading too much into it??

This is good. On the other hand, don't read too much into it. There are lots of ups and downs like a rollercoaster.

Is the other woman a Christian? I would be leary of a sudden interest in listening to Christian radio if she is.

Do these seem like real changes to anyone? Or is he just being nice to make the D easier? any suggestions?

See above.