Background:

My wife and I met in college. She was a freshmen (towards the end of the year), and I was a junior. I have had one serious relationship before her, a girl I dated through 3 years of high school and a few months into college. She had never had a serious boyfriend before. We took it relatively slow, and eventually did get into a sexual relationship. She had never had sex before, but I had with my previous commitment. Our relationship overall was great, and we had a lot of fun together.

I graduated one year before her, and took a job near our home towns, which of course was around 550 miles from our college. During the summer before her last year at school, we got engaged. We had a bit of rocky year, which I kind of expected considering we were doing the long distance thing. It was tough knowing that she was there hanging out with friends etc (most of which were guys since it was an engineering school). But anyway, I thought things went okay, and overall they did. I was very stressed the whole year as I was stuck so far away at a job I didn't like very well, so I had lots of time to think what might be going on up there, as well as her telling me about one of her friends trying to hook her up once or twice. I was very afraid that she would get attatched to someone else who she was spending time with. I know that it is very easy for that to happen in a long distance relationship.

After she graduated, she got a nice job offer in another state, so I found a job and we moved in together. A year later, we were married, and another year later we moved out of our apt and into a house. We have had our ups and downs like any married couple. Although she enjoys sex, she was never really THAT into it. We definately have a good sex life but I never thought it was a really important thing to her.

Anyway, we've been married for almost 10 years now, and together for something like 14. A few nights ago we were having a few drinks, and for some reason I asked her if she ever messed around with "Mike" or anyone else while she was in school.... her last year of "Freedom".

Mike was a guy that one of her "friends" was trying to hook her up with in her final year of school. I hounded her about Mike several times over the years we have been married, because he was very persistant (brought her flowers, etc, which she always told me about). She also said that she always told him she was taken. She really wanted no part of it.

Anyway, to the question she said no, but had a bit of a guilty look on her face. I said "WHAT???"..... so she told me.

A week or so before the end of her school year (Keep in mind we were engaged that whole year), she was in some friends dorm room having a few drinks. It was her, two guys, and one of the guys girlfriends. The unattatched guy she knew somewhat well, and he was in her department in school so they often saw each other in class. I knew him as well when I was in school, in fact we probably all had lunch together a few times when I was still at school. The "couple" kicked them out since his girl was there, so the remaining two went down to her room (a bit tipsy) to watch TV. One thing led to another, they wound up kissing, and eventually had sex (which she said was really bad, lasted 10 seconds, etc.).

She thought it wouldn't bother me now, considering it had been so long, and that's the only reason she told me. When I asked why she hadn't told me before, she said it didn't mean anything, it was a stupid mistake, she regretted it immediately, was ashamed, etc, and didn't want to lose me over such a stupid thing. However, she did mention that in one way, she was a little bit happy that it happened because she had never been with another guy sexually. After more discussion between us, she thinks she was probably just trying to make herself feel better the next day by coming up with that.

The problem is, she told me a couple of months ago and it is still bugging the ****** out of me. I trusted her completely, I NEVER thought she was even capable of doing something like that. She was the type of person that thought it was gross/nasty to kiss someone you weren't in a relationship with, in fact we didn't kiss for probably a couple of months after we started dating. You have to know her, but she ALWAYS does the right thing. She said it was partly to blame on the alcohol, which I can understand, but she also said she wasn't totally drunk and she was aware of what was happening. I was so not worried about a one night stand, but I WAS frightened about her getting close to another guy that year and ending it with me.

I can't help but feel like she wasn't absolutely and totally in love with me. It really bums me out and I'm horribly disappointed. Now my happy memories of college make me think of her cheating on me. Any time our school comes up in conversation, it makes me think of it. When we have sex, it pops into my mind sometimes.... I picture her with him. In fact, the last two weeks have been worse for me, and it's a constant topic of discussion whenever we are together.

I never thought this would be us, she has apologized profusely and knows how bad it is making me feel.... but I can't seem to stop feeling this way. I keep thinking that it was only one darn week before she graduated, in fact I went to see her graduate with her family, never knowing this happened only days before (She wasn't sure HOW many days, it could have been the day before I saw her!) Couldn't she go a few more days!?!?!?! I just can't understand. It's just not like her AT ALL to do something like that. It's like a nightmare that won't go away.

When I ask her why (and believe me, I have asked A LOT over the last few weeks), she really can't answer. She just said he was flirting, she was kinda flattered and drunk, and it just kinda happened. She says it wasn't pre-meditated, she didn't expect anything to happen when they went to her room. (I bet he did, but that's another story). She said she had pretty much blocked it out of her mind and doesn't remember many details. She specualtes that she might have let it happen once it started mainly because she had never been with another guy, it was her last days of school, etc etc etc, and knew I would never find out.

Am I wrong to be feeling this way? Should I just drop it totally?

I want things to go back to "the way they were before". I almost wish she would have never told me at this point. We really had it good and all of our friends were envious of our great relationship. But now, when I see her, I feel resentment, and I picture her with him. I start asking questions over and over. I feel like I have to know all the details to put closure to it, and of course it was so long ago she can't remember much. I feel like she should have been turned off when he started to kiss her, not flattered!

There are times when I think I should email this guy and see if he can tell me more! I'm guessing that would be a bad idea....

I also can't help wondering if we would be married today if she would have come clean before our wedding. I'd like to think I would have married her anyway, but how does one know?

Thanks for any help.

Dear Help,

I am sorry to hear that this happened. Your post sounds somewhat like my H and our situation (except I was the one who was with an ex-bf very early into our dating).

Anyway - My first thought is that you two were engaged and committed when this happened, and that is wrong. It sounds like your wife did an impulsive thing at 21 years old, that she says she now regrets.

However, you say that you have been happily married for 10 years...

Why bring it up? Was it something that you suspected intuitively?

(I have to admit, I'm asking these questions selfishly to help me figure out my H's POV in our situation)

My guess is that your wife feels awful for what she did. But please look at the past ten years of your marriage...doesn't that count? Now you know, and you say you wish you didn't. I hope that you can work through it with your wife, and get counseling if necessary.

I agree....


Honestly, I'm not sure. I guess I always just assumed that maybe she got drunk at a party and wound up kissing Mike or something. He was always on the offensive from what it sounded like, and since they were in the same department, they were at a lot of the same functions. In fact, she skipped a lot of parties that he was at on my encouragement. I never really suspected she did anything. In fact it was unbelieveable shock when she told me what actually did happen.


No problem, we're all here to help each other.


I'm sure she did and does feel awful. Of course the last 10 years count, and that's why I'm not running out the door. That doesn't stop the pain though, and at times it just seems like things will never be the same. She has actually been to counseling a couple of times since this happened to try to help herself deal with me better. I am supposed to see her counselor tomorrow, we'll see how that goes. I just wonder if I can ever look at her the same way again!

Are you my H? Lol! Just kidding.
I've been going to counseling and he is going this week.

I think the difficult part is that you don't see her the same way but your wife probably feels like she IS the same person. She is who she is, the person you have loved and been happily married to for ten years.

Just something to think about, and to hopefully motivate you to go go to counseling and move forward...what if she left? Is this worth ending your marriage over? NOT saying you are at that point - but think about the alternative of letting this eat at you.

Be sure to read through the articles and basic concepts here. Its difficult in your situation because the Plan A/Plan B of no contact with the lover, etc. don't apply in this case. She has had no contact with him (correct?)and has otherwise been faithful and loving to you.

Maybe you should be my OW. lol.

I know in the grand scheme the whole thing is petty.

I know she is the person I love, but I'm not sure she was the person I loved back then when we were engaged. That person could never let that happen, drunk or not.

I have honestly thought about being apart from her. This is the first time in 10 years I have thought that way. In some ways, I think the only way the pain can totally go away is if I am without her. However I think it would hurt even more to be without her! So I feel trapped....

How does one choose between hurting and worse hurting?

Well, *that person* did let it happen. I think - similar to what my H is dealing with - is your image of someone vs. the reality.

What is the reality now? How has she been as your wife?

I think you have your answer: you don't want to be without her. You could leave and start over with someone new - but everyone has faults. Whoever you are with next is going to have a flaw - maybe not this particular one - but it will be something that you did not know about before (I'm quoting one of our MC's here, what she said to my H as he is contemplating divorce).

HelpCoping, I can understand your situation, and even relate to it in a way, as I've gone through a similar experience with my FWW.

It's a difficult situation because, while the pain is still very fresh for you, and the last 10 years of your relationship can actually seem like a lie, as far as your W is concerned, it happened a long time ago. It's great that she can actually empathize with your feelings now - take that as a good sign!

All I can say is, from my own experience, it will take a while, but you WILL get over it.

You would be amazed at how many people come here with this situation. I must tell you a bit of a joke to help sort out what I am about to say.

These two old cowboys are sitting on the railing of a rodeo, with their boots hooked on the railing watching as this guy is getting ready to ride a bull. The guy on the bull is wrapping and rewrapping the lead around his gloved hand trying to get a good a grip as possible. His friend is steadying him on the bull and talking to him. The friend is telling him "ok, you have the lead and if you stay on the bull for this ride you cannot be beat. It is really simple, stay on the bull."

One of the old fella's on the fence looks to the other and says "that old boy over there is about to learn the difference between simple and easy."

What you have to do is simple. You must realize you were not married yet. You must realize that she apparently does love you and wants to remain married to you. You must realize that at 21 people do dumb things, and yes hurtful things. You must realize that your marriage and family is more important than your feelings of hurt for something that happened over 10 years ago and was before you married.

It is simple really, BUT...it is not easy.

Now in my mind what might help you is to list the reasons you are really hurt. Let me offer you some examples.

1. You feel like a fool for trusting her.

2. You feel like a fool because you were easily fooled (actually you weren't, you have had feelings about this for a long time.)
3. Your image of her on her pedestal has been ruined, and for us guys having our W's on a pedestal is much bigger than women seem to realize.
4. You have doubts about yourself (no well founded because the data says you are HER choice and have been since you married."

So make up the list and really look at these things in the light of day. She cannot make up what she did. She cannot undo what she did, but if and I say IF your marriage continued with deep love and respect on both sides for many years do you think that is worth more than what she gave away one drunken night in her dorm???

You have to answer these things and I know that while the intellectual answers and solutions are simple, they are not going to be easy. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

You are hurt, and probably hurt for what she has done to herself as much as you.

Do some reading here, take the time to heal and have patience with both yourself and her. In the long run she will pay a much bigger price that you, and I am guessing the reason she told you was she had always been paying this price.

If you want to heal YOURSELF and yes help her, forgive her. That does not mean you forget, it does not mean you don't take away some lessons, but if you set down her mistake, it will heal you in ways you cannot imagine right now.

Think about it, and remember there is a difference between simple and easy. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

God Bless,

JL

I am so sorry this happened to you.

I understand completely how betrayed, confused, upset you must be. It doesn't matter that it was 10 years ago... it could have been 10 years or 10 minutes ago and the hurt is still the same. Yes. She was stupid and i'm sure she regrets it and is much more mature now. But i'm sure that doesn't aleviate the pain you feel.

I wonder if your hurt more by the fact that she slept with him, or that she was capable of doing something like that and then acting like nothing had changed when you saw her at graduation? I know when I found out my DH had an online profile 2 months after we were married, I was hurt not only by the profile, but that he'd had it for a whole month and never acted like anything was different between us. Realizing that the person you love, is capable of putting on such a heinous mask is just as devastating as the act itself.

I think it's more about trust, then what actually happened. I am guessing here, but I imagine that you're more hurt by the deception, than the act. If she'd confessed to you at graduation, was remorseful, etc. chances are you still would have married her. But at least you would have gone into it with all of the cards on the table.

I hope that this counselor is able to help you deal with this. My DH and I went to counseling recently and it was a disaster for me. She couldn't see or understand my pain or why I was still upset/suspicious. If he/she tells you to "get over it" (as our crappy counselor did) find yourself a new one.

I do think this is definitely something that can be worked out between you two. I don't think your wife is a horrible human being, at all. And I think the fact that you're so hurt by this and came here for help shows how committed you are to making your marriage even stronger than before.

You'll come out the other side. I know this, because unlike me, you're taking initiative NOW to make this better. Unlike me to let this linger/fester for over 4 years. Believe me, deal with this now or it will eat you alive. I can attest to that.

I realize she did let it happen, which makes me wonder if she was who I thought she was. I found your thread and read it as well..... and you guys weren't even exclusive at that point? Honestly I think he's being pretty unreasonable.

Overall she's been great. We have a good, honest, open relationship (or at least that's what I think!) Although she hasn't been overly affectionate (never has been) and I kinda feel like I might be missing out on that a little. I'm a pretty affectionate person. (I know, reverse of the norm huh?)

You're right, I don't want to be... but sometimes I feel like I almost have to be without her to feel better, this is on my mind 24/7. I know I would feel worse without her though.... but would it fade in time? Honestly, I don't want to start over, I'm sure I'll get over this. But it doesn't feel like I'm getting anywhere and it's probably been 3 months now.

Again I agree, but I would actually take just about any flaw over that one. This is honestly the one thing I didn't feel that I would ever have to deal with in my relationship. However, I understand that she learned from her mistake and I have nothing to worry about now... so do I take the chance with someone else that may cheat on my even more? It certainly can be a crazy world...

Hi -

I think what Just Learning said here is perfect.

Read through the Emotional Needs articles on here...make sure both of you are working on those while you go to counseling.

Have you sat down with your wife, and told her how you feel? For example, "I feel hurt/betrayed/whatever but I love you and want to work through this, even if it is difficult." ?

Good luck with your counseling session!

Oh, that train of thought sounds *so* familiar...!

I faced exactly that situation: Many years ago, the woman I was in a very serious relationship with (but not yet engaged to, much less M'd) confessed her A to me - said it was just about sex (the "A" consisted of a few bouts of SF with the OM), she was curious, and it didn't mean anything. She seemed sincere about having "learned her lesson", she promised to "never, ever do it again", and she seemed to really want to be with me, so I decided to take the chance and remain in the relationship, and we eventually got M'd.

Her 2-year A (1-year PA) from 2003-2005, after 13 years of M and two children together, was what brought me to MB!

Am I still trying to recover my M? Yes, but I do wish sometimes I could go back about 20 years or so and slap myself silly.

I'm going to address your email in a couple of seperate posts, because this is going to get long!

True, but we were in a VERY committed relationship of almost 3 years, and engaged for the better part of a year!
I agree. I agree again. However, the problem I have with this is that it JUST WASN'T HER. She was the type of person that thought making out with someone you weren't dating was gross! She would comment about drunk people at parties going at it like they were disgusting. I know she thought that way. So what could make her want to do this, especially the sex? It was a guy she wasn't even great friends with, basically a person from a group that she hung out with once in a great while. We didn't even kiss until we had been dating for like 2 months, and didn't get sexually involved until a long time after that. Was she more attracted to him than me?
I do realize that... however that doesn't make the hurt go away. And as a side note, it's just the two of us, no kids.

I agree with all of those, however let me add one:
5. Why wasn't she feeling horrible when he made a move on her? Although drunk, she still knew what was going on and knew she was engaged to a great guy! And here she was kissing a guy that she wasn't even interested in.... even though it took her and I months to kiss for the first time! She's honestly not even sure how drunk she was.... and some of the things she remembers are kind of haunting:

- Towards the beginning, she remembers him saying something about "We shouldn't be doing this", and her reply was "Yeah, we shouldn't be doing this". It was either shortly after they started kissing, or maybe just before.

- Before they had sex, she remembers him asking her if she was on birth control. Unfortunately, she was.... and no it wasn't for that purpose. During her 2nd year at school she was having horrible cramps and yes, I witnessed this several times. Actually at the time I'm sure I was probably pretty happy that the answer was birth control, but now I wish there had been another cure at the time.
I beileve it did, but then again she's never been an overly affectionate type of person. My world's been turned upside down and believing anything 100% at this time is a little bit difficult...

Not sure about this one, and this might get long! (Sorry in advance)....

This comment brings up the reason that she told me after all this time. This fall on a Saturday, we were working out in the yard. She was doing something, and I suggested a different way to do it. She blew up at me and I was like "Where did that come from!" She started crying and said she wasn't sure she wanted to be with me anymore. Ouch!

I threw a bit of a tantrum, and settled down and asked her to go inside so we could talk. She went over reasons she thought maybe we weren't right for each other, things she was unhappy about and that she had been unhappy for maybe a couple years now, how her current job really sucked, etc. All of things were easily fixable with work from both of us and communication, and her job was currently changing for the better. I asked her if she loved me, and she said yes, of course, but she still wasn't sure we should be together. When she blew up, she thought maybe we should separate for a bit to think. I didn't want that, I wanted to work on it.

I was devastated. After talking we both felt better, and we were on the right track from what I could tell. The next day was of course a rough day as well, but by the end of the day we were both feeling pretty good even though she still "wasn't 100% sure". We were having some wine, grilling, and reflecting on our years together, college, dating, etc, and I said something to the effect of "So since we're being honest, did anything really happen with Mike that last year". She always said he was a nice guy, etc, but wasn't interested, but I know he was laying it on thick. I used to ask her that stuff often, if anything ever happened that year, but I probably hadn't asked in years. Anyway, when I asked her this time, she just had a goofy/guilty/grin on her face, and I said "Who, Mike?" She just kinda looked guilty again, and shook her head. I said "Who???" about 5 times, and she said a guys name.

I was like what did you guys do? She wouldn't answer, so I said "What, did you have sex with him???" She tried to make light of it by saying "We were having fun, he was flirting, we were half-drunk etc". I said "You realize we were freakin' engaged???" I was soooooo mad, but I just kind of swallowed it due to the other problems we were working on, and I didn't want to jeopordize that healing.

She told me it didn't mean anything and was a stupid drunk mistake. She felt bad about it the next day, and even felt bad about it for a couple of years after it happened, but she blocked it from her mind and pretended it never happened. She said it is something that she doesn't even think of anymore and it's like it didn't even happen. At one point a while back, we were discussing one of my cheating co-workers, and she said it didn't even come to mind then. She never thought of herself as having "cheated".

Anyway, the next 3 days or so, I really went to work. I did things that I thought she would really appreciate. Made a long list of things to work on to improve our marriage, I spent hours and hours trying to remake a mix tape that I made her when we were dating (On CD of course, some of those old songs can be hard to find!). Brought her flowers, wrote her e-cards, etc. I felt like I was putting forth all the effort and she was putting in very little. I literally felt like I was dying. Wednesday night, she had a night out scheduled because she was changing departments at work. I thought she should skip it so we could talk and work on stuff. It would have been rather easy to re-schedule, her coworkers are always up for an evening at the bar. She didn't see the need to, so she went and stayed out until around midnight. I was dying the whole time wanting to talk.

The first couple of days, I did bring up the college episode a few times, and she really didn't want to hear about it. In fact she thought I should drop it because it was making it difficult for her to get over the other stuff. I did drop it after that for a while, maybe a couple of weeks.

I kept asking her if she was sure she wanted to be with me over the next couple of weeks, and eventually she agreed she was sure, and that she probably over-reacted from keeping her issues bottled up. After I felt things were good in that area, the cheating then really started to eat me up.

At this point, she really did start to understand what I was going through and wanted to help, but I still felt like she wasn't doing much to actually help. Maybe I was expecting too much, I dunno. She has held up over these couple of months and I have been doing a lot of crying/complaining/yelling, etc. It's been an emotional roller coaster and we are both exhausted, but she is hanging in there. However, I think I would be much further along on the healing path if she had done more in the beginning. When I was working on the first problem, it was basically every waking moment. I skipped lunches to work on stuff, to make lists, to do research. I used to go out with coworkers almost every day for lunch, and I didn't do that for weeks after this. On the other hand, she was putting other priorities first, or at least that's how I felt.

I wanted her to write me an email, letter, e-card, anything (or just talk), and tell me how she felt, what was going on, etc. I had sent her a few very long ecards telling her I didn't want to lose her and how much she meant to me. It took me weeks of badgering her to get a 3 line e-card.

I think if she would have grabbed me at the beginning when I first started to feel bad and looked me in the eyes and said "I'm so sorry, I feel horrible for what I've done, I'm afraid I'm going to lose you and I don't want to, etc etc etc" she maybe could have headed this off at the pass. But she didn't (she did say "I'm sorry" a lot and "I love you" a lot)... but that was about the extent of it.

And here we are.... it's still on my mind 24/7.

That's certainly what I'm trying to do! The fact is, I won't forget it, and can I live with that? I think so, but sometimes it certainly feels like I can't. I haven't cried about anything in years, and I've cried a hundred times in the last couple of months. I would almost rather have been told I have a fatal disease rather than this, because at least that would have been out of anyones control.

Thanks for your comments...... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I understand what you are saying, but I think I am much more hurt by the fact that she could sleep with him without being in love with him. We were starry eyed, deeply in love, ready to get married, etc.... so I feel like she should have been pissed off when another guy started hitting on her. In addition, she was so the opposite of a slutty get drunk and have sex girl. As for hiding it when she saw me? I can kind of understand that. I've tried to put myself in her shoes, and although I know telling me would have absolutely been the right thing to do, I'm not sure I could have done it, either.... In her mind, she screwed up, made a dumb mistake, and learned from it and wouldn't let it happen again, so she was "good to go". I might have felt the same way, especially at that age.
It's both of course. I would have been devastated to say the least by the act. I'm a much different person now than I was then. I was a fairly jealous person at one time, especially since I had a great/pretty fiance at a school where it was 75% guys. I'd certainly like to think I still would have married her, but I'm not sure how I would have reacted back then. It certainly would have helped to know more details which I'm sure she would have remembered at that time such as how drunk, what happened, details etc.... If she was completely remorseful and truly sorry I'm sure we would have worked it out, eventually. On the other hand, it was at a tough time in our lives, I saw her very little over that year, and maybe I would have blown up and she might have thought "All for the better" and dumped me... who knows. I can definately understand her not telling me, even though I don't agree with it. One small consolation is that she was so worried I would leave her that she didn't want to tell me.... that at least means she wanted to be with me!
Thanks for the advice, I'll keep that in mind. I'm a bit nervous as my appointment is in a couple of hours. Then, an hour later, we have a couples appt with the same counselor. I'm sorry yours didn't work out for you. Honestly I doubt it will help me much, I think it's just going to be a time thing.
I know she's not a horrible person, but it just keeps going through my mind "How can a girl that's viewed sex as a relationship only thing wind up having a one night stand, while engaged? I just can't seem to get past that.
Sure hope you are right and thanks for your comments!
R

I'm sorry to hear that <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> One major difference I can see is that in my case, it was a one time thing (as far as I know I guess). It was spur of the moment and not pre-meditated. She was alone with the guy, tipsy or drunk, he started hitting on her, and she liked it enough that she didn't stop it. In your case, there was some thought put into the cheating..... Definately a different scenario assuming everything my wife is telling me is true.

Ouch. I'm so sorry to hear that. It makes what I am going through look like a non-issue.

Well I hope you can work out out, good luck!!!

One thing I would caution based on my unfortunate experience is... do not draw conclusiuons about your W's behaviour, and certainly don't assume that she's told you EVERYTHING.

I did exactly those two things, only to discover years later (just last year in fact) that she left out certain key parts of her story and allowed me to come to my own conclusions about the circumstances of her A... conclusions that turned out to be very wrong as I discovered to my dismay many years later.

Yeah, I'm starting to really consider that stuff. I will say I have beaten the subject to the point of exhaustion for both of us. I believe if there was more, she would tell me. I guess that's all I can do! I wouldn't tolerate it again. If I found out there was significantly more going on, or if it were to happen again, I think it would be over for us, and she knows it.

All I can do from this point is believe her, trust her, and go from here.... I just need to figure out how to do that!

Having said that.... does anyone think it's a horrible idea to contact the guy? I'd really like to get more information, if it's available. I do beleive she's telling me everything she remembers.

I know the name of the company he works for and have found his email adddress...