Only contact that she has mentioned is they emailed each other a couple of times after college when we started our jobs. Nothing of significance though. She's not sure who might have mailed who first, but she thinks it might have been him asking for some senior design project help from her company.

Anyway, what do I hope to achieve? Maybe fill in some of the blanks that she has left. How drunk was she? Seems to me, she probably wasn't very drunk by the time it all happened... but maybe I'm wrong.

Don't you know what you need to know? How will he know "how drunk" she was? How will you know how drunk HE was?

Do you really want this guy thinking about your W again?

"hmm. . .HC's W's marriage is on the rocks and apparently she still remembers me and that one night. . ."

Honestly I don't really care what he thinks.... but your point is taken.

My guess is he probably remembers things a lot better than she does. Maybe he'll offer that they weren't even drinking at all??

Well, after pleading that the details just don't add up, she finally gave me what (I hope) is the last info. I'll always still wonder though since this was so hard to get out of her.

I always knew she was a little bitter... maybe bitter isn't the right word, but something like that - that she had never had sex with anyone else and I had. I guess she had wondered about that a couple times during her senior year while we were apart.

So last night, she looks like she has something to say, and she says the other 'reason' was that she had never been with another guy and wanted to see what it was like. She said she wouldn't have done it if she had more time to think about it and wasn't drunk, but the opportunity was there, and she made a bad decision to take it, and felt bad after and even during a little bit.

She still says she had no idea something was going to happen when the two of them were headed down to her room. Probably surprising to all of you, but knowing her I actually do believe it. She was a little bit more than naive back in those days.

While I'm certainly not happy about it, I can understand it a LITTLE bit. She was a 22 year old girl who had been apart from her fiance for a good percentage of the year, her college career was coming to a close, she was about to move in with me and spend the rest of her life with me, she had never been with another guy, and she knew I had sex with my previous girlfriend. The funny thing is, sex was never really *that* important to her, so I can't understand why she would care what it was like with another guy. Any girls on the board want to chime in and say this is "understandable" and/or "forgiveable"?

I guess I just have to accept that it was a decision that she made under the influence that probably made sense at the time, but I think she realized it was a bad decision even before it was all over.

I asked her, "what if the sex had been awesome?"??? Would you have dumped me or felt differently about me? She says no. I have to wonder.

I think you have a lot to thank her for. My situation is different, but suppose your W cheated after you were married - that wouldn't be any better.

Anyway, I think your intense feelings about this will become more tolerable over time.

Your W can't change the past. But she has:

• finally told you the truth (and I'm sure it wasn't easy for her)
• recognized how much it hurt you and made a marriage-enhancing decision to seek counseling
• AFAYK, been faithful to you for 10 years

You've described your search for truth as 'relentless'. I can empathize. But if you really put her through the wringer before she chooses to come clean on her own, you run the risk that it will be harder for her to be truthful in the future. You want to encourage safe honesty. Shirley Glass's writing helped me understand this. If you tell her you'd never forgive a future indiscretion, then she may never be willing to come clean about one. If she flirted with someone at work and realized she crossed a boundary, wouldn't you want her to come to you feeling that she could safely tell you about this. This could make your M a lot safer.

Well, I'm optimistic for you. Your M has a lot of potential to be better than it ever was...

- WG

Thanks for your input, it is good stuff.

Honesty is the #1 most important thing for me.

Hi HelpCoping...

Same thing happened to me. My husband had an affair with one of my friends while we were engaged (in college). He planned to take the secret to the grave, but instead he told me... 17 years after it happened.

The basic reason he cheated was the same reason your wife told you: he had never experienced sex with someone other than me, and was curious.

He wrote about it on this thread (his username is "Messdup"). I'm not sure if it would be helpful to you, but here it is in case you'd like to read it:
My husband's confession

His affair while we were engaged had enormous effects on our marriage. Because of his secret, he withdrew from me. We couldn't talk to each other... he missed being close to someone... but because of the secret he couldn't reach out to me... so he had more affairs. You are really lucky to be dealing with this now before it snowballed.

Please thank her for being honest with you, and for not letting it lead her further away. You can work through this- if my husband and I can do it, than you can too!

PS. There is a woman here called "starfish" that said "if my husband's affair didn't end our marriage, my reaction to it would!" I found that to be true in my case as well.

Just beginning to read your husbands thread, it is very good. I wish my wife was able to express as well as him. She is having a hard time, because our situation is much different in some ways -

- In her case it was a somewhat drunk one night stand
- Wasn't premeditated, it just started happening and she didn't stop it
- She regretted it immediately afterwards (and maybe even during some)
- She is the type of person that doesn't dwell on stuff. She realized she made a bad mistake, and she put it out of her mind. Our marriage has not suffered at all, and I believe she hardly ever even thought about it. In fact, we had a great marriage until this surfaced!

So yes, it should be easier for us than for you two, however I'm still having a horrible time with it. What I can't understand is:

- Sex was never an important thing to her back then! Why would she want to at that point? She waited months if not a year to have sex with me! Someone she actually loved!

- She wasn't "into" this guy.... but somehow kissing started happening anyway. She was always the type that thought intimacy = love. How could someone with those ideals allow something so wrong to happen? Alcohol? I dunno... doesn't seem like that would even do it.

I appreciate you replying to my post, and would love to see more.

By the way..... I have not posted in a while, but I did it. I emailed the OM. In some ways I felt better, in some ways not. Not sure if I regret it or not. The major details add up (one night stupid thing, wasn't premeditated, just kinda happened, no romantic involvement). Some of the more minor details don't necessarily add up.....

-He wasn't sure if she was drinking at all, although he couldn't say that she wasn't.

-He thinks they actually slept together for a few hours after, where she says he left almost immedately

-He also feels like maybe it started before they went down to her room, but again he wasn't sure).

-His recollection of the discussion of birth control would lead me to believe that she did in fact want to go ahead with sex, where what she is telling me is that she wanted to stop at that point but felt she was in too deep already.

-Her description of the whole night bascially makes it sound as innocent as a one night stand could be (some "OK" clothed making out leading to some crummy sex). Although I didn't ask him what exactly happened, from what we did email about it seems like a little more than that was going on....

Again, neither of them can remember much clearly.... so I guess these details aren't important. Somehow, they are important to me though and I wonder if she doesn't actually know more and just doesn't want to upset me more. I think she is being honest and probably just doesn't remember.

OK... taking a stab in the dark here...



She was a virgin when she met you, right? Her first time can only happen once... of course she would only trust you, the one she loved, with that beautiful experience. Her behavior with the other man can't take that away from you.

I wonder if my husband would talk to you. I'll ask him. He has a similar take on his view of sex. I was his "first" although he dated dozens of women before meeting me. Some of them he practically had to beat with a stick because they wanted to go farther than he did. He wanted to save himself for "the one". Which was me.

But then... we had been engaged a year and our wedding wasn't for another year and a half... he started wondering if he was missing out on something? OW was there and willing... so it happened.

Maybe my husband will be willing to expand on that for you to help you understand how he saw these events as separate.

One thing that he mentioned in counseling was that he was angry that I had sex with another man (previous boyfriend) before he and I met. I was his "one and only" but he was "second" for me, and that really bothered him. I read at the beginning of your thread that you were with another serious girlfriend before you met your wife. Is it possible that she was trying to even the score? I'm just throwing out ideas.



He didn't mean much to her, so he was "safe" for her to experiment. He was not a threat to you (in her mind at the time). Often, to women, an emotional affair is much more devastating. Since he meant nothing, the act would also mean nothing. Obviously that's twisted logic, but she was young and drunk...

All of what you said makes absolute sense and I feel those are probably a lot of the reasons that played into what happened. However, the things that bother me are

- Sex just wasn't that important to her
- As I thought I knew her, her upbringing, morals, and values would never have allowed her to have a ONS, much less while engaged! The thought of having sex or even kissing a guy she wasn't involved emotionally with was "icky" to her!

Me on the other hand, I would have totally expected myself to do something like this... I was always "admiring" girls... but never acted. Would I have if it would have been so convienient? I have thought about this ALOT over the last couple of months, and I don't believe I would have. I certainly cannot say for sure, however.

I'm sad that it feels like she wasn't really the person I fell in love with... but I know this isn't necessarily true.

Why did you email the OM? Don't you realized that the OM is motivated to lie thereby protecting himself from being the victum of an act of revenge by a angry BS?

"He wasn't sure if"

"He thinks they actually slept together for a few hours after"

"He feels like maybe it started before"

"His recollection of birth control"

How could you think that any of these vague answers were true?

"Her description of the whole night bascially makes it sound as innocent as a one night stand could be"

How can you use the word innocent?

"Although I didn't ask him what exactly happened" Why?

"neither of them can remember much clearly.... so I guess these details aren't important" Then why ask?

"I think she is being honest and probably just doesn't remember."

She does actually know more and just doesn't want to upset you and by avoiding the pain that she would have to feel from telling you the truth.

HelpC, your gaslighting yourself into terminal BS FOG!

Only you know how much truth you can handle. It appears that you can not handle much, which is ok.

How strong does the OM and your WW think you are now that you have shown how weak you are by so willingly believed their tall tales?

TheRoad,
Your reply is.... interesting to me.

The OM is 10 years removed from this, he was also 20 years old at the time. He lives several states away and has had no contact from me or my W since college.

What motivation would he have to lie? I believe he is/was genuinely sorry from his responses and probably told me as much as he could remember. I'm not sure why I said I didn't ask him exactly what happened. I did actually, and he only told me details that he could remember (obviously).

I don't know if she knows more or not, but I'm not sure how else to find out. What do you suggest? I can handle ALL of the truth. I feel I could put it behind me if I knew. I have not willingly believed anything to this point... but I do have to take into account that it was 10 years ago! I can remember very little from that long ago.

As for the "innocent" comment, what I said was "as innocent as a one night stand could be". What I meant when I said that was it wasn't pre-meditated, it wasn't crazy wild porn sex or anything, and she kinda went with things. Wrong? Absolutely. But I do have to remember that it is her who told me about it. She could have kept quiet and I would have never, ever, known.

Some days I just feel like I'm not going to get past this. Why on earth would a very happily engaged young woman want to do something like this, especially given that she wasn't even into the guy??? I just can't make it make sense.

Does it have to make sense in order for you to recover?

(I bet your short answer is "yes" or at least "it would be a lot easier!"... but honestly, when you boil it down, does it matter?)

How about this for "why": She's human. Humans are inherent cheaters. This is a basic concept of MB. All of us are capable of cheating- the ones who are able to avoid it either 1) lack the opportunity or 2) have a plan to resist when the opportunity presents.

My bet is she didn't have a plan. She was so young! She had morals- she trusted herself! She never would have dreamed this would happen to her... so she let her guard down and innate behavior took over. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Since then, she has remained faithful. Your relationship is actually safer now than it was before her mistake. She learned! She NOW HAS A PLAN.

It will never make sense to me, so I guess the answer to your question has to be no. But yes, it would certainly be easier!

Yeah, I have seen that about humans being inherent cheaters, and that is SO hard for me to accept.

Another interesting point is that although I do believe she hasn't done it again, she didn't have a plan until now. I asked her "So, do you NOW think it was a good idea to go to your room, drunk (maybe), alone, with a guy you thought was cute and a big flirt?" Her answer was, well when you put it that way it sounds like a bad idea. It hadn't crossed her mind. I asked her over and over to be careful that year since we were apart, and not to put herself in bad situations. She still failed to see that it was a bad situation.

It bothers me that it didn't bother her a LOT more back then. She still thought the guy was a nice guy up until she told me. I asked her how nice of a guy could he be if he was supposedly a good friend and helped his engaged friend do something like that? He was unattatched, it was no risk for him. Again, she's like, yeah, that doesn't sound very nice <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

She just thought she made a stupid decision and didn't dwell on it. She has also said that she felt bad about it at the time, but not horrible. I'm not sure how to take that, either. Maybe I should have her read this posting...

By the way, you were in a similar situation to me, and I know you had a VERY hard time with it. I read your husbands entire post. He was also young and I assume had morals... so why was it so tough for you? Do you really believe what you said above?

Hi again!

Yes, I really believe what I said above.

Why was it so tough for me? Remember when I told you I had a serious boyfriend prior to meeting my husband? He and I didn't make it because he cheated on me... therefore I broke up with him. I did NOT tolerate cheating, and my husband knew this. If I had known my (now) husband had cheated before we married, I would have broken up with him too. Therefore, I felt that my marriage was "fake"- the reason I married him was because I didn't know him. It wasn't the cheating that bothered me so much- it was the lying about it. I felt that my husband trapped me in a situation that he knew I didn't want.

Unlike your wife, my husband did not learn from his mistake. He did not have a plan; he continued to cheat. Our marriage was NOT good. We are trying to fix that! You have a solid foundation with your wife; you had 10 terrific years together. I do think her faithfulness throughout your marriage is evidence that she won't cheat again.

Also unlike your wife, my husband had strong feelings for the other woman (he carried her pictures around with him like a valuable treasure). That was another reason I had trouble with his confession. I felt that he would have been much happier if he had chosen her instead of sticking with me.

I hope that helps you understand why I feel so optimistic for you. My husband and I are working things out; you and your wife can too!

Thanks SR, you have no idea how much I appreciate your responses....

You obviously had/have a tougher situation than me, although I think cheating may have been a deal breaker for me as well. I can't 100% say for sure that I would have married her had I known. I'd like to think so, but I'll never truly know.

From reading your husbands post, he sure seems to be happy that he chose you.... I wish you the best.

I hate mornings, it seems to be especially bad. I feel like I'm stupid for even considering sticking around... but I know I want to be with her.