I'm not trying to be condescending here, so I hope that I don't sound like I am, but ...



in my experience, 5 year olds have zero sense of time, ie. how is he supposed to know whether it was 5 minutes or 15. I guess most importantly, as his Dad already stated, he isn't that attentive (like most 5 yo's).

Frankly, Even though I do think that his wife is having a EA and probably a PA as well, that doesn't mean that had SF that morning at the house. He needs proof of the A and he isn't going to get it from a 5 yo.

Who

Would the potential harm of having this conversation outweight the benefit? If the conversation is exectued in a very creative way, it will appear that nothing ever occured. The measure of time is going to be determined by him and not the kid. If the kid said that he was in front of the TV and his mommy and OM went into this other room and closed the door, you'll know something happened. If he was left alone playing with toys or watching TV while his mom and OM was out of the sight most of the time during the visit, you'll know something was not right.

Possible that they are having a physical affair, but did not do anything that morning? Yes, but very unlikely. Possible that they are having an emotional affair (which can lead to physical affair any time in the future), but did not do anything other than talk that morning? Definately.

I agree with Who.

Is your wife the one who was all upset because OM told her not to come to his home again when his wife was not home? I may be getting my stories crossed.

It could be that your wife is in an EA with him and this may be why she is desperate to have the get together this weekend put on her charms. Otherwise it would not be a big deal.

If my husband didn't want to get together with a couple, I can't imagine pushing him into it.

That right there speaks volumes. Of course he would jump right out of his skin should I visit a man in his home the way your wife does.

It took me a long time to get the proof I felt I needed, and I did need it. My wife told the most horrendous lies, all believeable, especially for one willing to believe them (me). But it took me 6 months, and in the end, I was right about EVERYTHING.

So I understand the need to get proof, and I still don't think I was wrong to need it, but in retrospect I would have been sneakier and more persistent.

Get proof.

S-
You asked for a clarification on "entitlement rearing its head".
Your WW believes on some level that she should be allowed to continue her affair without interference from you. When her conscience tries to stop her, she over-rides her own conscience, because the feelings she gets from the affair are too good to give up. She thinks she should be happy and will do whatever makes her feel good. Part of the thrill is sneaking around. Exposure gets rid of that part. Once everybody knows, the affair is not nearly as enticing.

If you suspect she is having an affair, that is probably good evidence that she is. Are you normally inordinately suspicious or are you usually right when you trust your gut?
I put a digital recorder in my WWs car for two days. Listening to that recording removed all doubt about her affair. It will hurt like heck, but then you can do something about the problem and not worry about wrongly assuming the worst. Just do it. Like ripping off a band-aid.

LL, I love that analogy "Like ripping off a band-aid".

I am trying to be lighthearted about all of this and I have had alot to think about within the last 24 hours. I see pros and cons with the weekend visit, maybe I can pick up some info, like whether his wife has had a hysterectomy (explain condom use, I had a vasectomy 3 years ago).

I am trying not to think the worst, but my gut tells me that this relationship is over and not repairable. I am confused and lost....

I tried the voice recorder in the car and most of it is inaudiable. I can definately tell that no one else has been in the vehicle. She does not have a cell phone and I am working on the GPS, but a little out of my price range right now. I track milage on the car but, his residence is only 0.4 miles from the school.

I think that if I can catch her re-visiting his residence after she told me that she wouldn't, that would probably seal the deal. A GPS or PI is needed here and again the financial issue comes into play.

I am somewhat flexible in my work schedule but no work, no pay(I have returned home at unexpected times, but not during the noon hour). That is more difficult.

I am sincerely trying not to be biased in my report here and I am amazed at how many of you are certain that EA is occuring and even more amazed at how many have strong suspicions of PA.

Again, I have to wonder where his wife is in all of this. Certainly she has concerns as well.

JJ you are correct. W did get slightly chatized for showing up unnannounced one morning.

According to W she has only been over to his house 2 times.

This afternoon, she left a detailed message on my cell explaining that she got caught up in the school after dropping my DS off making some projects for soldiers over seas and was out of the house from 1215 until 1300.

Am I supposed to think that now she has decided to be explicit in her daily activites subsequent to our demise last PM?

I really think that I should be working on a modified plan B and that it is going to take a "Shock" to open her eyes.

And by the way...I do love my wife and family very much and the most frustration that I am experiencing in all of this is her failure to understand (or at least try) to see my point and how I have reached this level of suspicion coupled with the dishonesty that I feel has occurred.

This is of course in addition to her failure to accept ANY responsibility in this situation.

Thanks for all the replies. I anxiously await your recommendations and concerns <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I felt this same thing re: OWH in my case. He was almost totally drowning in denial with Cleopatra, though he did have his suspicions.

Maybe that's the case with your OMW...

Thanks Charlotte,

How did it end? How did you approach the OWH?

I called him AGAIN...on a Sunday when I knew they were together. I tried to disguise my voice but he knew it was me and I knew it.

Slag had a great time making fun of me and my Mr. Gray called me a "2-faced b," granted, it was not "direct" but direct enough that it hurt.

So I called OWH again on Monday and talked to him.

I was going to wait until Thursday but there were a lot of supporters here who pushed me on Tuesday until I called him yet again and he agreed to meet later that afternoon.

He still didn't believe me. In addition to his denial, Slag convinced him I was nuts and Mr. Gray helped.

The first time I tried to contact him I did but I was thwarted by them. I even sent him a message through his myspace account...but he doesn't use it himself, a friend manages it for him. So he gave me OWH's direct email. Well, I know that Slag erased it.

Not long after Exposure Explosion we were talking and he told me he never got it. He was sad because he thought it might have made a difference.

And it might have. Who knows?

One thing is for sure, when he saw the evidence there was no way he could deny it any longer.

And now he totally disregards what they said about me. I forgive him...I can understand it. Does it give me a thrill because he told Slag that I'm a reasonable human after she tried yet again to say I was crazy and unstable?

HECK yeah!

Just adding:

I felt SO GOOD after I shared the evidence with him and got their nasty secret out of my craw. I felt like I weighed about 2 tons less!

Even my BIL commented on how different I sounded. I called him directly after.

So....yeah!

Charlotte,

What evidence did you obtain and provide?

Chat sessions from yahoo IM...

It's funny...SHE was convinced I was bluffing...Mr. Gray wasn't so sure, he thought I must have had photos.

But she kept on and on about the bluffing thing.

Well, surprise surprise surprise!

Good for you Charlotte!!

I am at my wits end. Have not decided if this is all worth it or not.

I look at my W with a different perspective now based on what I have been told here.

I dont want to think it, but I must be in denial. That has put me at such a loss of what to do.

But I trust the posters here that they have seen MUCH more than I and on different courses. But I still dont want to believe it.

Tish tish.

I visited Jamesus post and was really appreciative on the respect thing that Sushi posted. Hope I can catch the link tomorrow.

To answer

Realize that most of us here are BSs, which unfortunately makes us more suspicious than most, only you really know what you think is going on.

However, I bet that for a good portion of us the first inkling we had of our spouses affair was just simply a gut feeling that something wasn't right. For me, that was followed by a couple months of "nah, she wouldn't DO that!" But it still didn't feel right. In the end, I was right.

Have you been prone to jealousy and accusations in the past?

I know, Sympatico. I was SO there!

I NEVER in my wildest dreams expected this from my beloved.

NEVER!

Talking to OWH...same in his corner.

I would not do this at this point. Not a plan, and too reactionary.

These past few months sound like they have been one of chaos (fighting, moving into spare room, moving back into bedroom, fighting some, moving back out of bedroom, moving back in).

You need to get calm, figure out where you are failing in this R, correct those areas, get proof of the affair, expose, etc.

You have not been working a plan. You have been running around being reactionary.

Drinking is still an issue. Partying, fighting, going around in circles.

Get a plan, lead by example, evaluate.

Do you understand what I am talking about here?

A modified Plan B for shock value is not leading by example. Nor is it coming up with a plan and working it long enough to even let it work, let alone evaluate.

Agree with JJ here. A plan B is premature when you don't yet have confirmation of what you are dealing with. There are several steps that should be taken before going to the extreme, especially exposure to OMW after you obtain evidence.

Who

I would just like to say that when I came here with my own story of 'suspicious' behavior, everyone was quick to tell me he (my husband) was very likely in a PA. Turns out it was inappropriate behavior for sure, but I honestly believe I discovered it before it even reached the level of EA.

Someone ask you if you are prone to controlling and suspicious treatment of your wife. Are you?

I agree with JJ above that you are being reactionary. Your life needs caaaaaalm right now. Just STOP asking her questions. STOP accusing. If she is a wayward she is not going to tell you the truth. And if she isn't a wayward your suspicious mind is going to drive her away. You should be aware of what is going on. Watch carefully--without letting her know. If she is already 'in' an EA or a PA it will not be long before you figure it out if you are watching.

It is possible though, (as in the case with my husband) that she was on the edge and your direct approach to her might very well have shocked her into realizing what she was about to do.

This was crossing my mind, too. And you know, this is how boundaries help us and our spouses stay in line. Her being around this man, having a friendship with this couple clearly is making you crazy so it is not good for your marriage or you mental health. This is a boundary that needs to be stated clearly and with conviction.

It is just good marriage practice to lose friends who jeopardize the harmony of your marriage.

Tell her you are uncomfortable with this friendship, period. This is your boundary. It's not negotiable.

I have already done this with my new H and he has with me. I had one male friend I have had since school, and he had one particlar female friend I got icky vibes from. We have both ended those friendships. He still has two other female friends that I am completely okay with, so those friendships have not ended.

My H did not think it strange when I asked him to let that friendship go because it made me uncomfortable.

My long and rambling point is that it is okay, and even necessary in marriages to do this.

Thanks for all the good advice.

First to answer the question. No I am NOT the jealous type or controlling.

My W has gotten everything that she has asked for since relocation five years ago.

Mostly right about the "knee jerk reaction" modified Plan B. I'll move back into our bedroom tonight, and play it cool.

About the friendship, I don't know. Is it possible that this boundry would be too unrealistic and give inference that my feelings are to weak, maybe cause a lack of respect?

Thanks again everyone <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />