The overall tone that her BH somehow owed it to her to pursue her...but he didn't, he gave up, and SD's post seems to indicate that the failure of the marriage now belongs to him because of that...Sorry that rubs me the wrong way...She can change her tune now all she wants, but I'd argue that her true feelings were indeed revealed in her original post...Only now when she sees that others didn't dig that does the story change...Convenient, imo...

this is what I don't get...

I read this post....and saw a FWS who said....my gosh..
IF my spouse...had shown great concern....love....boundaries ....upon finding out about the affair.....and placed energy in to it...ie plan A...

it probably would have worked....not because she would have sat back and done nothing...but because her great need to feel needed...would have been what she needed to work her side of the street

lets argue that an affair occurs cause one spouse feels like the other spouse doesn't give rat's a$$ about them...

(not excusing...not justifying....)

and then when disclosed...or caught...or whatever....
continues to act like they don't give a rat's a$$ about them or the affair.....

can not that person say...

if only I thought they cared
if only I thought they believed enough in me...when I didnt
we might of been able to fix it...

negativety begets negativety begets negativety
to me that sounds logical....

that if a spouse has a high EN for feeling persued....flirted with.....engaged with in the kitchen...

and the other spouse..REFUSES to do so....

even after being told over and over....

can you not see the natural progession of that leading to affair behavior.....

I don't know ...

Further this new man that SD is involved with is one of her OMs and I find that to be VERY offensive and just plain wrong...That is now and will forever be an adulterous relationship...Great that she is now claiming to have changed her stripes, let's see her put in into action by giving up the ill gotten goods(OM)...The command was "Go and sin no more"...I, for one, don't think you can "sin no more" when continuing the adulterous relationship...

well theres the same old thing we see here all the time..

bet there's lots of folks on surviving divorce board who aren't legally divorced...yet...but dating.....

she's not the first the last or the only...

just had a talk with someone the other here that I don't even think paperwork if far in to progression...who told me she's gonna date if she feels like it....


so yeah I guess he's an OM...met sixth months in to seperation with divorce proceeding proceeding...

I bet most don't wait long....
very few I would think....
I don't know....

I feel like I read a totally different post than others...
and I really don't want to see this cause a split...

that's not my intent......

ARK

For me, this is where the metal meets the road in terms of true remorse and part of earning the "F" in Former wayward.

She can "claim" in words she understands and say all the right things, but there are actions that need to take place. Ones that she may find uncomfortable and even difficult.

Jo

Swing came here and listed the events that took place in her past which lead to a failed M.

Acknowledged her mistakes with insight that lead to those mistakes.

Has since realized, from the responses given, how important acknowleging her past to her future H is.

Has credited this site, and other like it for giving her the tools and information needed to not only recognize past failures, but ensure it does not occur in the future.

I don't expect she came her to be given a pat on the back or comforting, nor is she looking for approval as result of her changes...

I think she came here to share a story of devistation, and learning the hard way.

And what about her ex-H's health? Just so much scorched earth not requiring a second thought?

Jo

Good question....
I don't know the answer...
I don't know if we will ever get the answer...

but the point and question holds great value and meaning...
but if you can't get it delivered...
I don't know what to say....

I agree a gazillion percent she should inform him
ark

I agree.. The X should be informed of everything. Not necessarily because of the health aspect, I guess that depends on the timeline.

More so, because he has a right to know the whole truth, not a partial truth.

Ark...

She said she moved out on her victim...ABANDONED HIM...and then expected him to woo, court and date her, and he didn't...Couldn't she have set up those dates? Couldn't she have wooed and tried to court him if she was allegedly so willing? She was the one who left and deserted him afterall...I'd say he was pretty devastated over that...Not to mention I'm certain that without knowing of the other affairs, he did know on some level...You can bet that those extra affairs were reflected in her attitude towards him...What if she had done the work and set up those counseling appointments that she claims that she wanted and was willing to go to? I'm sorry, I just see her laying all this at the feet of her victim and to be perfectly frank, I think that sucks...I do not see what you see at all...I see someone who wants to say, "Oh well, I screwed up last time, but now I'm so in 'luuuuuurrrrrrve' and my stud is a hot one in the sack and is so in 'luuuuuuuurrrrrve' with me back that he is completely possessive of me...oh boy, ain't we hot?" And I really don't think I can see it another way...And sure she comes back and says, "Oh, my first post is not really what I meant to convey...let me use better words now that you all have spoonfed them to me...blah, blah, blah..." From my POV, her true attitude was most certainly revealed in her first post here...

As far as the other point is concerned about her one true luuuuuurrrve being an OM and whether it's okay to date while separated...Nope, it isn't okay in my book...I can't and won't normalize that personally...Divorced is divorced and anything else is NOT divorced and until you are divorced it is NOT okay to date...That OM will forever be ill gotten goods as far as I'm concerned...

Ark, I respect that you feel the way that you do...I just can't see it that way...

Mrs. W

"For better or for worse, for richer or for poorer, in sickness and in health, forsaking all others and keeping myself only unto you, until death do us part."

Promises. Commitments. Perserverence. "Until I no longer feel like it."

And let's not even talk about VOWS. I wonder, are they still even called "Wedding VOWS?"

Toss out even the Golden Rule, even that won't apply.

And then there's the little issue of enablement. Naaaa...best we not go there either.

*******************edit******************

Hello again. I have not read all of the responses, but I see there is a lively debate going on. I thank you again to those who have said compassionate words to me.

I will address one piece of my original post that many of you are very mad about – the STD issue.

After the first A, I went and got checked out, due to guilt, fear of being caught, and obviously the wish to protect my husband – though I know that seems crazy (I know, I know, fog…)

After I confessed to the first A four years later, he and I both got checked again to ease his mind. We are all clean and always have been.

Here is the part of my original post that I debated about … I did not want anyone to think that I was minimizing or justifying so I just said I had the 6 EA’s and 3 PA’s.

In deeper detail now, the EA’s were beyond boundaries, but were flirting only. There was no love, no planning to sneak off to Aruba or what have you. It was simply flirting taken beyond boundaries. Again, cheating is cheating so I didn’t say this in my original post. It was wrong, period.

The other PA’s never involved sex, only kissing. So…again, I figured if I stated that in my original post it would come across as insincere so I just said the truth…cheating is cheating, it was wrong, I wasn’t going to try to minimize it. It was physical, so I called them PA’s and didn’t offer any excuses.

But because it was only kissing, no I did not get STD tested after those occurances.

I did get tested again when I met my now fiancé and he did as well, because we both figured it was the right thing to do before we started having sex together.

My fiancé and I have been together for about 4 years now. We have taken things slow. We moved in together 1 year ago and got engaged last May. We have been to IC and couples counseling (together) in the past, and we plan to do more of it before we get married.

SD

Here's a part of why I can't see it any other way than I do...

I myself am a FWW, as folks here know...

OM dumped me because my mom and Mr. W plotted together and then my mom called OM and threatened him...told him all sorts of stuff about me-many of the things told were even lies-understandable and appreciated in hindsight...

I didn't find that out for over a year after the affair was over...BUT what if I had...

What if then I contacted OM and "set the record straight"...left Mr. W because of all my rationalizations and justifications...divorced him...then came here and told you all "oops, I screwed up back then...shouldn't have done what I did...I sure do wish Mr. W would have done ABC so then I wouldn't have done XYZ"...BLAMING Mr. W for MY CHOICES...And then saying, "But now I know...Now I've learned...Won't you all please now bless my union with OM? Pretty Please...I'm real sorry and all...Mr. W still acted like a cad about blah, blah, blah"...

Damn, it would suck if people here validated that kind of stuff and gave me a stamp of approval...I personally can't and won't do that for SD, because I sure hope that no one here would have done that for me if I would have chosen so unwisely and cruelly...

Mrs. W

The above is one of many of her quotes from her first post that was disrespectful and showed a continuing WS mind-set of entitlement.

I completely understand why she received the responses she received from her first post.

I agree with JKT assesment. Sure SD screwed up, and she admits that. I just don't get this knee jerk reaction and all these inflamed, I'm on my soapbox, responses.

I hope you stick around SD and use the ignore feature if necessary. Your post is an excellent example of mistakes people make. You CAN learn a lot here.

That's correct, familycomesfirst, I don't. I didn't bring up the "woman at the well" example, but I was responding to the reference to it as a justification for "accepting" SwingDancer and her lack of marital commitment.

What SD wants is MarriageBuilder's concepts to apply to her pending marriage. Wonderful. She can get all that from the main site, from Dr. Harley's books, etc.

She does not have to troll the forums looking for acceptance of what she is doing and enablement of her justifications for what she did to TO her ex-husband, and then have the audacity to claim it was "all his fault, I tried but he didn't respond fast enough or the way I wanted him to respond." She might have just as well said, "why husband, why don't you JUST GET OVER IT ALREADY!"

She did say that, though, in effect. "Oh well....off to more adultery and divorce so I can get what I think I want."

I see this poster as being open to suggestion and learning. I also see that her initial post was worded in a very poor fashion....okay...we can move past that.

Mrs W has some great points.

Ark...sometimes I think you have a tough time understanding the emotions here because you have not experienced them yourself.

All the things you all are pointing out Swing did wrong in her M. Are ALL things Swing has ADMITTED to having done wrong in her "past"...

Give it a break, or continue to beat the dead horse.

She seems to have lived (and perhaps is living) a very messed-up life. Despite her ambiguous wording, she's probably looking for direction. If she’s trying to make sense of it all (considering her life story that sounds like a Herculean task) then slamming her probably isn't going to help. She did mention something about childhood abuse--perhaps additional info could provide insight into her patterns of behavior.

Admitting to things done wrong in the past does NOT equal repentance or removal of consequences JKT...

Mrs. W

fine, JKT, have it your way. Help away, you have that right and I will not deny, or attempt to deny, you your rights or those of anyone else who wishes to condone what SD is doing as "okay" and worthy of help despite the blatant attempt to gain "justification" for what she is doing, and has done. If the system is to take on the "model" that one's feelings JUSTIFY adultery or blatant sin, I'll disagree by not participating in this thread.

I've stated my position. There is no need to continue restating and restating that position, nor do I want to participate in any potential "war" between valued members on this system over this person over a marked disagreement in who is worthy of help and who is not. That's a personal decision for each member to make for themselves.

I'll take a pass on this thread and move on to others where time can perhaps be better spent.

If forgiveness is a journey that all travel...

I think it is rare for us humans to have instant remorse over long ingrained actions and choices....

if it is a process...
a journey...

and those on that journey who most likely while in the behavior filled their world with those most like them..

those unable to judge
those unable to say it is wrong
those unable to say stop...don't do that...
those unable to show a different way...

and then a process or a journey to find others to help them see it differently after seeing it only through justification and rationalization for so long...

where on this road or journey do we come in at...

do we pick and choose...

see mrs. w I have done things in my past that I have screwed up and hurt people....

that's how I learned.....some things....

some I can't change or fix...

I have a list of could of would of should of in my back pocket.

I don't know....
it sure is interesting

ARK