I’ll try to keep this brief. Three years ago my W and my child’s soccer coach (OM) were rumored to have had an affair while at an out of town tournament. Both denied and that was the end of it. I do not know if the OMW was made aware of the rumor. Since that time there have been a couple of incidents involving this OM that have aroused my suspicion. A few months ago my W became more involved with the team, volunteering to help with a number of administrative tasks. As a result, she has been speaking to OM by phone on a regular basis. Probably worth noting that none of these calls take place in my presence; in fact, yesterday she chose not to answer a call from OM that occurred as she and I were talking. I also see OM several times each week in connection with my child’s activities. We socialize with other team parents and those that know us consider all of us to be friends. Recently my gut has been telling me that something is amiss. To confirm (though I was hoping it would disprove) my suspicion I recorded her side of one of her calls to OM. The audio is somewhat difficult to follow because of starts/stops but it is clear that there is more to their relationship than there should be.

After listening to the recording I confronted W this morning, telling her definitively that I know of her relationship with OM. I did not provide details nor did I tell of the recording. I implied that I was planning to speak with OMW. My W denied everything, became angry with me, was “hurt” that I don’t feel loved by her, etc. I told her that she needs to quickly figure out what she wants with respect to our relationship and in the meantime she needs to end her relationship with OM. Since this conversation she has not spoken with me.

So my questions are:

1. As a practical matter I cannot create a NC situation. That would require me to remove my child from this team and I am not prepared to do that at this point, primarily because there is no way to explain short of the truth (child is 16 and the team is elite – no comparable teams in the area). So I plan to let OM know that I know of the relationship with my W. Hopefully he will fear possible consequences to him from his W (he also has children) and this will cause him to end A with my W. Is this a wise move? And is my evidence conclusive enough? I am considering telling him, as his “friend” that I just found out that my W is having an A and I feel bad that I have to tell OMW, thinking this tactic will eliminate his ability to deny (after all, I will not be accusing him). Thoughts on this approach?

2. Ending relationship with OM will not resolve the many problems in my M. My W has steadfastly refused (we have had our share of ups and downs over the years – please see my posts from earlier this year if interested) to go to MC. If I force an end to her relationship with OM but she is unwilling to work on us what do I do? She has never been willing to engage in serious discussion about our relationship and I don’t expect that to change. Where do I go from here?

Thanks to all in advance.

If she's having an A, and it sounds like you're pretty sure, then it is very unlikely that you will be able to recover the M while she is in contact with the OM. Threatening OM with exposure to his W is just going to give him a chance to prep his W and paint you as a crazy, jealous husband with a bad marriage seeking someone to blame.

You are right, ending the A won't solve all the problems in your M, but you aren't going to get a chance to solve those problems while she involved in it. Therefore, the A is your priority #1.

I assume you are familiar with Plan A, if not, become so and begin to execute it. I would suggest exposing the A, to his W, to the other parents with kids on the team, and to your son all in one fell swoop, don't give your W and OM a chance to formulate a response. I would predict the likely fallout of this could be the chance to recover your marriage and the end of his coaching tenure, which could allow your son to remain on the team with NC. It might not go that way, but I can't imagine many parents wanting thier kids on a team coached by someone with that type of character flaw. I predict that you will think this is extreme and will draw alot of unwanted attention, but think about it, everyone is going to know eventually anyhow, and given that you said rumors are flying, its likely they already do. Rumors are one thing, they can be swept under the carpet. A BS exposing his W's A is not so easy to overlook.

See what others think, but I think that would go a long ways toward ending the A.

If you have *definitive* proof of the A, then expose to all parties that can assist with breaking up the A. Off the top of my head, this would include the OMW. Your son should also know - I think he would be not only very angry with your W, but also very *extremely* angry with you if he was to find out later that you continued to let him be coached by the man who was scr*wing his mother after you found out the truth.

If you don't have *definitive* proof, then by all means you need to get it, and do not do any further exposure until you have that proof. Look for the Spying 101 thread here - that might help to give you some ideas. Unfortunately your WS knows now that you are suspicious, so she's likely to be even more secretive with her exploits.

In the meanwhile, read up on Plans A and B here. Plan A is what you should be practicing now (but bear in mind, the A in plan A does not stand for "Appeasement"!).

Thanks for the replies. I will try to incorporate into my thinking on what to do.

Sleep was difficult last night and with all that idle time I came up with the following: I plan to tell W no more contact with OM unless I'm there and that if there is something that OM needs to discuss with his team manager it can be routed through me. If W finds those terms unacceptable she should begin making her plans to leave our house.

I also plan to confront OM today, make the same point about how team manager responsibilities need to be handled going forward and add that he should not plan on spending time with us on team road trips (the routine is that coaches' expenses are covered by the parents, so he sometimes travels with us, usually dines with us, hangs out in bar in evening, etc). This will be difficult for him because he'll have to explain his absence from these situations but that's not my problem.

I'm thinking about bringing all this to his attention without using his name, i.e. "gee, i'm having a crappy day because i found out that W is screwing around and unless certain things happen (see previous paragraph) I'm going to have to tell the guy's wife which would be unfortunate for him and his family". What do you think of that approach?

Lastly, re conclusive proof, I have an audiotape of W side of conversation that proves to me that they have a relationship that would be considered unacceptable by OMW. However, I do not have proof that there has ever been physical contact. I plan to hire a PI next week because I have to travel and she will be taking son to his team's practice. Is the audiotape that proves in my mind an EA enough to act on at this point?

I would like to have both of these conversations today and would really appreciate any input.

No, no, no, no!

You are listening to your instincts on this one. Your instincts will lead you in the wrong direction!

You should not be demanding that your WW have NC with the OM. This going to reflect worse on you, at a time when you should be trying to meet your WW's ENs and avoid LB'ing.

You should not be using that weasely approach to bringing the subject up with the OM either. It does not reflect well on YOU, and if he is involved in an A with your WW, that already shows that he has little respect for your feelings on the matter anyway.

If you're planning to hire a PI, then I suggest leaving exposure until the PI gives you his report.

Ok, I was in the same type situation as you.

First of all, ABSOLUTELY DO NOT let on that you have ANY evidence to your wife or OM.

Gather SOLID PROOF. Unrefutable proof as they will deny and lie to your face even with solid evidence.

Without any warning give a copy of the evidence to OMW.

Again DO NOT let on that you suspect anything. Waywards think they are the smartest people in the world and their spouses are totally stupid. They can't even fathom why they married someone so stupid in the first place.

Again DO NOT tell OM. He will be smug and counter your threat by convincing his wife you are crazy. The best weapon you have is to blindside him by going straight to his wife.

He must be insignificant to you, an irritation like a foot fungus and what you are doing is applying a remedy to get rid of it.

Apply exposure liberaly.

The one side effect of exposure is the nuclear reaction of your wife.

Good. You'll have her full undivided attention.

Pay attention tiredinmd! There's no huge rush, get your plan together!

What you are planning is a 1/2 assed mix of what you will need to do, but its all the wrong 1/2s at all the wrong times!

Stop worrrying about the OM, veiled threats and all that crap. Start worrying about your W and showing her that your marriage can be saved, and get convincing PROOF.

While this may not sit well with you, you might even go ahead and apologize to your wife for not trusting her. Tell her you just felt a little jealous, you love her, and you want to spend more time together.
Basically, it could set the stage for your Plan A, and also put your wife at ease enough so that you can collect more definite proof of the affair. Doing this in conjunction with your trip out of town and a PI, and maybe you'll have all the evidence you need by the time you get back.

Then you can expose to the OMW and maybe even the soccer league managers (if there are any) before your WW and the OM have any idea what hit them. Never, ever warn them about exposure.

Also, does she use your home computer? If so, install a keylogger. Thats how I get my definitive proof that my wife was having an affair.
Does she like to text message as well? Depending on the phone you can get a Sim card reader and recover deleted text messages.
But the more you confront her about this without hard evidence, the more underground she will go, and the longer it will take to get said evidence. And all during that time, you will be lovebusting each other.

Remember, Plan A. Be a great husband while you collect evidence to destroy her affair fantasy.

I agree with all the rest ...

1. Give the PI time to get the "PROOF", and THEN EXPOSE unannounced to everyone.

2. DO NOT use that wimpy approach in dealing with the OM. YOU are the BH here, don't give this slimeball any respect by dancing around the issue. When the time comes for confrontation, stand tall, look him in the eye, and reclaim your family ... YOU have NO REASON to pussyfoot around with this guy, he should be the one cowering in your presence.

Thanks again to everyone. As for the suggestions to get more or better or definitive proof, I have all the evidence necessary to convince me that they have a relationship. No proof of PA but definitely EA. What is to be gained by gathering more proof? Is this simply to accumulate a large quantity of evidence (all of which would lead to the same conclusion)? Is this to make it easier to disclose to OMW?

I have contacted a PI this morning and was told that, by law, all they can provide is visual surveillance. If this is an EA that will not help me. If it proves a PA then nothing changes from my point of view as I don't believe that PA and EA are different in terms of betrayal of one's spouse. My plans would be the same in either case.

Which brings me to my revised plan. I agree that the indirect approach is "weasally". I do plan to contact OM today (my attorney strongly recommended against doing this in person) to tell him that:

1. I am aware of the relationship and have evidence of it (will not provide detail or answer his questions on this point).

2. He has much to lose personally and professionally and should carefully consider the consequences of his actions.

3. That from this point forward he will not contact my W and that I will be assuming team manager responsibilities effective immediately (unless of course some other parent wants the job).

I appreciate the thoughtful and well-informed responses but I am incapable of spending time with this guy (we will all be together this weekend for out-of-town soccer games) and acting as though everything is OK.

As for what I want to say to my wife it is simply that (a) all contact needs to end and (b) she needs to go to MC next week and failure on either front will result in me starting the divorce process.

Please tell me (again?) why this plan is unwise. I just don't see any reason to drag this out given that I have all the proof I need. And I have read LB and HNHN but I don't get how telling her to choose between this relationship and our family is a LB.

Please help.

After your further explanation and slight alteration of your plan, I will concur with it.

I like the fact of you confronting the OM yourself in a calm manner and "telling" him that you know, there will be NC going forward for life, and you will be assuming your W's team duties.

I also like the boundaries you've set for your WW to recover your M.

You have consulted with an attorney and PI, so you appear to be making informed decisions.

Personally, I'd want to know if it ever got "physical", but that's why they make chocolate and strawberry. Different people have different wants, needs, tastes, etc. If you see no difference in a EA and a PA, then more snooping is meaningless to "YOU" and that's the way it should be since its your life and M.

Good Luck to you, sir, you have a draining day in front of you, but FWIW, you have my respect and support for standing up for your family.

I was suggesting you collect more evidence because it sounded like what you had would not be enough to convince anyone but yourself that it was happening. The OM and his wife would probably treat you as crazy and your WW would do as much as she could to make you feel like crap while she took it further underground.

Its pretty well known that a WS and OP will lie and lie and lie and then lie some more and try to gaslight you. Sometimes proof to you is not proof to anyone but you.

Based on your last post, it looks like you are putting all your eggs into the ultimatum basket. I'm not criticizing since I did the same thing (hadn't heard of MB yet and I confronted my wife and told her to pack enough things to last her until I boxed the rest up), but you need to be prepared for her to choose to leave. The strength you are showing and lack of equivocation (a good thing) may be interpreted by her as your attempt to control her. With her foggy mindset that may push her out the door.

Many WS don't repent instantly, and the BS has to woo them back (I know it feels so unfair). Good luck with your disclosure. You don't sound like the kind of guy to put up with any [censored] from the OM. Are you planning on telling his wife or just him? I'd definitely tell his wife too. Not to screw up HIS marriage, but so she can help you ensure he doesn't contact your wife again.

Actually, if he wants to get the OMW on his side to break up the A, he may have to provide proof that meets her requirements as well. Ditto for anyone else he's planning to expose to. As others have mentioned, the OM is likely to spin this as a crazy H making a big deal out of a simple friendship. A picture taken by a PI showing them sharing some intimate time together would be VERY difficult to explain away like that.

YES


He IS going to LIE, DENY, THREATEN YOU AND LAUGH IN YOUR FACE.

My wife's OM did the same to me.

Now EXPOSURE to his wifey, church, job, family.

THAT his him like a hammer, not to mention his wifey hit him a few good licks with a bat. Until she felt better.
Took a while, long while.


Well, blatantly expose to his wife FIRST!

THEN you can be the smug one giggling every time you see him.


Bad news, SHE has already started it and it is creeping in on you.

You gotta kill the fantasy world dead.

And exposure is like a can of Raid to roaches. They might scramble around a bit, but it will start working and the roaches will be no more.

Do not confront him. Like others have said, it may do some good, but probably not.

Tell OM's W without letting anyone know you're doing it. Your W will be ANGRY, but so what? If you're prepared to tell her it ends or the D train comes along, it's really not going to matter if she's angry or not.

I exposed to OM's W and within a few days the A was falling apart. OM cut and ran from WS so fast it wasn't funny. I wish I'd have done that a lot sooner.

My M is not out of the woods yet. Still dealing with withdrawal and WS's anger, but guess what? She hasn't left like she threatened exposure night and her anger seems to be softening some. Waywards get over anger, your marriage will never get over an ongoing A.

Tired,

You've received good advice. I will only add from the Soccer parent standpoint.

I am also a Soccer parent of a nationally ranked 92 club team.

What is your Clubs policy about coaches? How often do they rotate coaches with teams? Typically we are every other year.

I would highly recommend you speak with the club president about changes for the next years season if another club is out of the question. This is not the best solution, but if you cannot be the parent making the trips for regional out of area/tournament play. He's old enough to travel without Mom or Dad, If you aren't the parent going.

I understand it's fine line doing the appropriate actions without harming your childs love of the sport and potential future possibilies.

The best solution I can offer... Moving somewhere else that has good soccer would be best.

-JKT

Thanks to everyone who has replied. A lot has happened in the last couple of days. The very abbreviated short form is:

On Thursday, contacted OM and told him to stop contact with my W and that he needed to tell his W or I was going to. He did not deny the A and said he understood what I had told him.

Thursday evening/night/early Fri AM, confronted my W again and eventually she admitted everything (3+ years, PA as well as EA). She reiterated her agreement to NC with OM and to attend MC. Many tears which hopefully were indicative of her sincerity (pardon my skepticism).

My current crisis is that my W is fearful that OMW will confront my W or otherwise handle in such a way that my son will become aware (remember he is coached by the OM) and that she "would not be able to live with herself". So my question is given that both W and OM have agreed to NC (and both "know" that a PI is involved) how important is it that OMW is told of the A? My original plan was to contact OMW and plead with her to handle this in a such a way that my son is sheltered from knowledge of the A, believing that she would be empathetic. I still believe this is the best course of action at this point but my W is asking me to tell the OM not to inform his W. I feel like she is setting me up to take the blame if consequence of OMW learning of A is exposure to my son.

I would be most appreciative of any thoughts on how to handle this situation.

The only real mechinism you have to ensure that this ends is to inform the OMW and have her check the OM. Otherwise this will reignite again. Your wife won't just be able to turn a switch and end the affair it has to be killed and buried.

IMO that's not YOUR current crisis. That's your WW not owning her stuff.

The OMW needs to know what is going on. You know that. You know that, if you were in her position, you would want someone to tell you as well.

There are three possibilities of what might happen:

1. Your DS might find out from the OMW
2. Your DS might find out from someone else
3. Your DS might not find out at all (hardly likely)

But wait... there IS one other way that your DS can find out - a way that both your WW and yourself can manage, and one that your WW can demonstrate that she's prepared to own the consequences of her choices and not involve you in any deceptive practices to protect her from the consequences of her dishonesty. Do you know what it is?

Good work so far!

You are not responsible for keeping thier secret, nor should you. OMW deserves to know the truth about her life, surely you believe that? OMW will have more reason than you to not want the word to get out, her H stands to lose his job. Even if this is not the case, it isn't your concern.

I understand your desire to protect your son from the truth as well, but these are things your W should have considered before hand aren't they?

Surely you aren't seriously considering accepting continued contact between your W and OM?

What would happen if you told OM that you would keep the secret if he agreed to quit his coaching job and move? Still not the right thing to do regarding OMW, but it would serve your purpose well.