An update (in no particular order):

Still dealing with (reeling from?) JustKim's comment about not meeting a work deadline in the first year after discovery. It's only been a month for me but I can relate to the need to spend [too much] time reading about infidelity and posting here rather than on what would otherwise be priorities.

OM coached his final game this weekend (this was by agreement; he could not find a stand-in on short notice). Said "good bye and good luck" to the team after the game. He said nothing to my son which is good IMO but on the other hand I add this to the A casualty list. This coach/athlete relationship of several years has been stolen from my son. No touching base in the future for advice on the game or college selection or anything. I feel bad for my son. That said, S told me on Saturday that he is glad OM resigned.

Got into it a little bit my W over her reaction to me telling her that I had recently (this past weekend) checked her text messages. In short, she was angry that I was "keeping tabs on her". I tried unsuccessfully to exercise restraint in responding to that comment but I was able to walk away before doing too much damage. Later I showed her a passage from "After the Affair" that said the most significant step a WS can take to restore trust, safety, etc is to show willingness to delve into the meaning of the A, what lead to it, ID and work to resolve contributing personal issues, etc. An hour later she was reading the book with highlighter in hand. A very positive development IMO. Can't wait to see later what she highlighted.

So thanks again to everyone here. Maybe it is time for me to move to the "In Recovery" board.

A person with nothing to hide; hides nothing.

Your wife lost the right to privacy and should be willing to be an open book. For real recovery, I think she should be demonstrating an attitude of real remorse and repentance.

When we were in early recovery and I needed answers to my questions with some detail....we would agree to timed sessions a few times a week where I was free to ask anything and he had to answer my questions with radical honesty.

Of course, you can move to the recovery board which is a pretty safe place...or the general questions II board which gets lots more traffic.

I am glad OM resigned from the coaching position and that your son is in full agreement/okay with that decision.

TiM

Just checking in on you to see how you ae doing. Please dont let my comments scare you. Recovery is different for everyone and Im an admittedly slow learner in that department. :-)

I agree with Trix. Your W needs to be completely transparent. You arent "keeping tabs on her" You are attempting to feel safe in a situation that is very unsafe for you to be in at the moment. She sounds very much like she is still in the fog. It will clear and things will get better. Just hang in there and keep posting and reading.

If it is possible for you to counsel w the Harley's I highly recommend it. The charge 185.00 per hour and it is the best money you will ever spend. My H and I have been couseling with Steve since May of 06 and I wished we had done it sooner. He will come up with an excellent recovery plan for you. My M really didnt start to turn around until we spoke to him.

RE: the OM? I understand what you are saying re: the loss of a relationship with the coach but your son never really had that to begin with. OM was a fake. What your son *does* get is you. He gets to see a strong man defend his family from attack. You are teaching him a most valuable lesson.

Just keep breathing.

JK - Thanks for checking in. I realized after my earlier post today that I probably read a bit too much into my W reading the A book though seeing her doing that produced good feelings at the time.

I think she probably is still in the fog and/or withdrawal. Hopefully she will understand my need for transparency (I agree with you and Trix). Also, though I have not asked her about this, I believe she may harbor anger over my decision to tell my kids about her A. Some of the books that I have been reading (including the one she began reading today) advise against telling the kids and that was something she was adamant about from the beginning. I have no regrets about the decision but I think she still questions my motives (i.e. that I was motivated by my anger for her rather than doing what was right by them).

I will consider suggesting counseling with the Harleys but my gut is telling me to wait a bit on that. After all she took the step today of picking up the book so I feel that I should give her some time and opportunity to finish reading and then reevaluate where we are in the process.

Finally, re your point about my son not really having had the relationship with coach that he thought he had, I get that. But it still sucks for him.

She didn't really give you alot of choice, given the relationship her AP had with your son. I known you know that, and the problem is whether or not she can come to terms with it or not. When/if she gets accusatory about it, tell her that you were simply doing what you felt was best for your family and regret that it was necessary.

I guess her coming to understand that your actions were a direct result of HER actions will be a good indicator for you of where she's at as far as taking responsibility for herself. I wouldn't look for it to happen really soon though, sounds like she's pretty foggy and stubborn still.

But reading the book is progress. She'll be highlighting anything she thinks is beneficial to HER, agree with all of it, and grab your own highlighter!

TIM,
Just to lend you a tiny bit of support, I agree wholeheartedly with your decision to tell your kids. There is a very good possibility that your son would have found out eventually and when he did, he would have known that you allowed him to continue playing for a man who had slept with his mom. Allowed him to forge a friendship with that man. I imagine that sense of betrayal and loss of trust would have equalled what you are going through now.

As for your wife's reaction to your checking her texts, I wouldn't worry too much about that. I see that as just another effort to avoid the shame and pain that she is/will be feeling. My wife's A was only 1 month long before I confronted and exposed, so by all rights her withdrawal period should have been shorter. She STILL got mad at me when she found me checking her text messages one night. I told her that I would continue to do what I could to verify that there was no contact.

Within a few weeks, her reaction went from indignation to asking "did you see anything you wanted to ask me about?" That gave me some semblance of hope.

Have a great day. We'll be pulling for you.

andrew, tyk and others - thanks again for your support.

random thoughts this morning:

1. re me checking my W's texts, I was motivated not out of concern that she had broken NC (I know this could happen but at the moment OM is dealing with a very p****d off W) but out of fear that W was texting her toxic BF (can TBF be a new MB acronym?) and telling her how she "really" feels about me, OM and our M. This may or may not be irrational of me but that's the truth. Knowing that TBF was complicit/aware and that W confided in her rather than me leaves me feeling unsafe about that relationship.

2. is there any conventional MB wisdom regarding asking one's S to read one's posts? In some ways I think it would help my W to understand my situation if she would read this thread. That of course assumes that she is interested in my situation. May be too soon for that. I am curious what others think.

3. What is the best approach to discussing details of the A? In particular, I asked a lot of questions w/i first days of discovery and I believe received honest answers. But since then things have occasionally popped up that I want addressed and I'm not sure why I care or the best way to handle. For example, yesterday I remembered an argument my W and I had on vacation summer of 2005 when I accused her of having called OM. She was very defensive at the time, said I must have emotional problems to acccuse her, said that she could not live under a microscope, etc. Now of course I know the real story but I feel the need to remind her of this conversation from 2.5 years ago. I don't know why. There have been other more recent examples that I have discussed with her and it's not as though there is anything particularly unique or special about this one but I can't seem to let go of the anger at the moment. I am really not into thought suppression or conflict avoidance - those things are partly responsible for the current state of my M. I'd appreciate any thoughts on the best, most constructive way to handle.

Thanks again to all.

I think you should make a list of what you truly need from your WW to attempt for you to be willing to attempt to recover the M. What are your "dealbreakers" and boundaries? Things like agreement to NC, agreement to counseling, both IC and MC, agreement to answer all questions related to the A, agreement to be accountable for all activity going forward, etc. Not necessarily to give to her right now, but to really identify what is important and what you need.

Its very reasonable for you to have questions. I had alot of them myself, in some cases similiar to yours. Instances where at the time I suspected my W was lying, and in retrospect see that I was right. I think that alot of this is really just anger at myself for not trusting my gut and alot of would've/could've/should've been different had I in fact done so. I think of all the pain I could have spared myself had I trusted my instincts. It may or may not be true, but it does piss me off because I am the type of person that has always had the ability to "read" people very well, and this one time I was too close to the situation and even though I KNEW what was happening as it was happening I allowed my heart to interfere with my head and didn't trust myself. Perhaps it is similar for you? Sounds like you had plenty of reasons to be suspicious and were but still didn't act until way late in the game.

TIM,

Random answers from my perspective:

1. I also had to deal with a TBF that was encouraging my WW. I insisted on NC with TBF, in addition to OM. This was also advocated by our MC. Actually, NC with TBF took longer and was much harder to achieve, but now upon reflection, my FWW now recognizes just how "toxic" her TBF was, and now agrees that she had her own issues and was NOT a "friend of the marriage".

2. Only you can answer if your WW is ready to read here or not. However, I introduced my WW to these internet forums early on, just to illustrate how UN-special her A was. I think it helped to "jolt" her out of her fog quicker, as she saw the A for just how "hollow" it actually was. She has continued to read, almost daily, and posts occassionally. The reading she does has been great for her, as I can see she is paying attention to the underlying principles and participating in the "heavy lifting" of R. In effect, her daily reading has kept her "compass" heading in the proper direction towards R.

Its something I have to remind myself of when I post something. It's not just the person you are responding to that reads that message, but many many lurkers looking to find answers to their own issues. Reading this site has helped my FWW greatly.

3. Just a thought, but once your WW starts reading here (when you think she will be receptive), this may provide good opportunities to bring up these issues that have been festering within you for some time ... a natural "segue" if you will.

Also, FWIW, I think you've done just GREAT so far. You seem to have a natural gut feeling for what needs to be done to get you where you want to be, and the backbone to make it happen. Keep trusting those instincts, and along with the good info you receive here, you should be fine.

I didn't talk about the toxic friend issue.

I think its an acceptable boundary, but I also think its a problem that is likely to resolve itself if/when your WW truly commits to recovering the M, especially if you are going to follow MB principles in your recovery. Following the MB would include beginning to spend much of your free time together, which would in itself limit the time she has for this person, it would also involve implementing the POJO and PORH, etc. In addition, once she truly embraces recovery, she will begin to see that this friend is not a friend of the marriage and will not seek her out as it is likely that this friend is not truly a friend but is more of her only outlet where she can share her wayward mindset without being forced to look at the truth.

I really just think you have other battles to fight and you likely won't have to fight this one if you win the war.

As far as reading your posts here: not yet I don't think. Print off topics that you would like her to read. Justus's letter is good, and anything else that strikes you, do it sparingly at first. I think once you get her to agree to attempt to recover the marriage and begin to jointly implement MB then you may both agree together that it would be a good idea. Until you get some reciprocity out of her I would use this as your tool.

My WW's reaction to me requesting that she read and post here didn't work out too well. You can see her posts under the nickname "Tangled".

I used to send her a link every now and then to threads that might be of interest, but that typically gets nowhere: I receive excuses about the threads being too long to read, she doesn't have the time, etc, etc. I've basically given up on that as well.

I suggest just letting her know that you post here if you really want. If she's interested enough, she'll look in.

My husband gave up any toxic friends that supported and encouraged the A. Your wife should do the same.

I also had memories that would surface regarding things that happened in the past...during the A...when I was also lied to...and made to think I was crazy for suspecting something was amiss with my H's friendship with OW...or where he was when he would be missing or not answering his cell phone for hours. Etc...etc...then there will be further triggers. You will go through times in recovery when the anger will surface. At some point in recovery when all your questions have been answered and venting over this stuff has been suffice or exhausted..Dr. Harley believes that the A should then be left in the past and not brought up again. Make sure you've exhausted all your questions by then.

I think it is still very early to expect that to happen. It may take a months or longer.

A marriage builder's weekend would be great if she'd agree to attend with you. Then there is the follow up program that is difficult but worthwhile.

I had my husband read parts of Surviving an Affair early in recovery...that helped him understand some of what needs to happen to recover and make sure it doesn't happen again.

Tyk - Thanks. I think I am going to sit back a little with respect to the TBF and see how things go. Hopefully that relationship will die of natural causes. In any event I agree that my focus now needs to be elsewhere.

MiM - I went back and read some of your W's thread. Very interesting. Looking forward to reading the rest though I think I can infer from your comments that it didn't play out in the way you had hoped.

Trix - I am finding that I handle the triggers better with each passing day. In the case of the example I gave it is not even so much a trigger of bad feelings as it is me wanting to have her acknowledge each instance that as you said "I was lied to and made to think I was crazy." In some ways the "made me feel crazy" part is pissing me off more than the A itself. How does a person do that to the person they married and presumably care about on some level? I really don't get that.

Lastly, I have been struggling a bit today with the notion that maybe I contributed relatively little to my W's decision to have an A. What if this was primarily a result of her issues that pre-date our M? After all, she has displayed certain behaviors over the years that made me wonder if she suffered from low self-esteem, etc (excessive flirtation, excessive displays of affection in public (but very little affection to me privately), need to be admired by other men, talking about how sexual she is when our reality was quite different, etc). How do I get her to be willing and able to look inward to see if there are issues to address and then to work to address them? That seems to be beyond the scope of this site does it not?

So, no posts in about 24 hours reminds me again how much I have relied on your support and guidance.

Just learned that I will need to travel for business next week and I feel that I need to ask my W the following:

"What can you say to me that will make me feel confident that you do not plan to purchase a new calling card and contact OM while I am out of town?"

Is that a reasonable question to ask? Should I expect a helpful response? Or is this likely to do more harm than good?

There probably isn't a whole lot she can say at this point that you will find very reassuring, you know she is quite capable of lying, so you're going to question anything she says (quite reasonably).

I assume there's just no way around this trip? Is it possible that she could go with you? (would she if she could?)

If you have to go, and she has to stay, I would suggest you explain to her the concept of withdrawal and tell her how important it is for her to remain strong and not contact OM while you are gone in order to give your M the best chance to recover. Now, this is making alot of leaps on your part, as to my knowledge she has not agreed to not contact OM, nor has she even really agreed to make an effort to recover the marriage. However, if she's been reading some books then she is at least becoming familiar with what needs to happen so you mentioning it probably shouldn't be too much of a surprise to her.

You might consider calling OMW again and telling her you will be going out of town so she can be extra vigilant in monitoring OM.

Tyk - Thanks for the reply.

No way that she could go and the trip is not optional for me. And really, it's not rational of me to be any more concerned about being away from home due to business travel than for any other reason.

After all, my W took advantage of the opportunity created by me taking my son to practice 2-3 time each week to speak with OM by phone while he and I were each on our way home (I live more than an hour from the practice location).

In response to a couple of points: W agreed to NC on d-day and sent a NC email (bcc me) about a week after d-day. In retrospect I realize that she probably took that step in an attempt to get me to back off from my decision to expose to OMW but nevertheless she did send the email and it said the right things IMO. She is continuing to read (and highlight) "After the Affair" and I'll continue to regard that as progress.

I am a little unsure about contacting OMW. According to my W, OMW was very threatening to her on the phone and may have crossed the line, i.e. she threatened my W's life, which may have been understandable of OMW at the time (few hours after she found out about A) but leaves me conflicted over my role here. I am my W's protector or my own? And, further to my first point, the extra vigilance from OMW would be needed not only when I'm out of town but at other times as well.

I guess maybe I'm just using this trip as a pretext to give my wife another opportunity to tell me how she is feeling about us and her commitment to our recovery. But I know that this may not produce the result that I am hoping for.

I think I'll continue to ruminate on this for a bit (what else would I do!)

TIM,

I wanna add to Tyk's great advice...

Planning what to do if is a great way to demonstrate you're a team...a marital team...plans include how to meet each others' ENs while you travel or she travels...through phone calls, emails, notes of admiration and appreciation you hide ahead of time for her to find while you're gone...relating stories of how you bragged about her to colleagues or admired her for an action (I know this is really difficult at this point)...

Changes you from enemies to partners.

Asking her how she's going to make you feel safe is more like parenting...can sound that way to the residually foggy mind. Stating your fear of her getting another phone card and attacking your marriage again is partnering. Sharing with her what you're going to do to keep your safe from an A on the road...may sound crazy...if it is what you do (and you may do it automatically from habit)...share.

Any accountability partners locally for her?

Plans can include...if she gets the urge to contact OM...she can...call you, write in her journal, make potato soup, call her pastor, IC or friend of your marriage. Planning together how to protect her weaknesses demonstrates your commitment to the marriage...and may help your fears decrease.

Did you find out any way to independently verify if she uses a phone card...through phone records or other means? I don't know if there is a way...thought I'd ask.

Hope this helps,

LA

Trust, but verify.

I don't think you're out of the woods yet in terms of her withdrawal. I think her desire to contact him will be strong.

Personally, I would leave a digital recorder under the bed when I left.

I would encourage you to think broadly about this. Dr. Harley encourages extraordinary precautions to avoid contact with an AP. The risk of her contacting OM is high. Even if she contacts him (and shows uncharacteristic restraint) and doesn't meet, her recovery will be seriously harmed. Her response to your checking up on her TMs could be pushing for loose boundaries so she can re-ignite the A. I don't think a 3 year old A dies easily.

A few thousand dollars for travel and a week's missed school for a child is cheap. Compared to a divorce.

- WG

Lexxxy - I'm interested in your perspective on something (as a FWW). My W and I have had a couple of pretty good days. We have been talking more openly than we have ever. In the course of one discussion I asked her what types of feelings or situations she thinks give her the urge to contact OM (i.e. acknowledging her withdrawal). She didn't really answer that question but said that she sometimes feels the need for closure and that the NC email she sent was done "almost under duress". What should I make of this? I don't know what closure means but it doesn't sound good. She said she feels guilty, that the A was her fault, and now his life is a mess.

On the one hand I know that I will not tolerate her having contact with OM; on the other I'm not sure that sweeping under the rug her need for closure will not come back to haunt her/us.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

TIM