It's OK with me if folks don't agree with my religious beliefs.

I just don't know right off hand at this minute any other way to say it.

But from where I come from... there's a belief that the DEVIL loves to stir up trouble where there is GOODNESS...

Call it Satan or whatever you want, there is GOODNESS here and we need to keep walking into that LIGHT rather than being bogged down into the NEGATIVITY.

We can be LIGHTHOUSES (thank you, ARK) rather than modeling the NEGATIVISM.

I know I was guilty of almost being run off by it all...

But there are people that are hurting and needful of HELP...

And the "BAD PEOPLE" (my FWH's catchphrase for his affair life) want to steer us away from providing that help...


This is not written as clearly as I want to say it because I'm busy and doing this hurriedly...

But I hope my message is clear...

Amen Mimi!

YOU ROCK MIMI,

Since I am SOMEONE WHO NEEDS YOU, I am SO GRATEFUL, you are sticking around.

You and the others on here are our wisdom and hope for the future.

SG

I agree Mimi and your message is clear.

However, after posting here for years, not just to get help but to give help too, if the same posters who feel compelled to defend Back, who basically fell for her false accusations that she is being 'abused', and instead of choosing to call her on her OWN rudeness, name-calling, selfishness, insensitivity, insulting insinuations, and false accusations that she is guilty of, choose instead to chastise the regulars who confront and challenge her to behave more civilly, can keep quiet while she posts hateful messages about me and others, then I will stop defending myself and others against her vile put-downs and leave.

If there is one thing I have learned from the betrayal I went through is that I do not have to be in any relationship where I have to put up with abuse from anybody and I will not remain in a relationship where I have to keep defending myself even though I have done nothing wrong.

Quite a while back I realized that what I really wanted in regards to my WXH, the ONLY recovery attempt I would even consider now, is one where I no longer have to defend myself in regards to his adultery because my WXH starts doing that for me.

I will not hang around here, being subjected to abuse from Back, listening to some of the regulars chastise other regulars for 'picking on' Back when all they are doing is objecting to Back's bragging bullying, not seeming to notice or care that Back continues to post things like the following insulting rant from Back. My ONLY motive to posting to Back in the first place was to try to reach her because I thought maybe she was making a mistake I had made (idolizing her WH). I posted that, not as a put-down to her, not as a criticism, but because I HUMBLY was admitting to the same sin in myself. I can only assume that those who defend Back and chastise those of us who defend ourselves and others against her cruel and rude postings must agree with Back's assessment of me and my motives... OUCH! Your silence in response to Back posting things like the following to me is perhaps more hurt than I should be attempting to deal with right now (or ever). I won't stay in any relationship, or on any message board, where I am not defended AND I am criticized for defending myself.

Back's latest 'defense' against my supposed 'abuse' of her:

"mm,

that's your POV.

however, it is clear you have nothing nice to say... and you are lashing out.

That would not be the Holy Spirit.

That would be human anger hostility resentment... because you want control through abuse.

That doesn't come from selflessness.

As previously stated, there's a problem.

I think you have a personal problem.

I don't see you attempting to address and resolve.

I see you attempting to gain control through abuse... lashing out when you can't get it.

You're not my God."

Mere:

What is it in particular about Back?

Is it that she is like a WS, unable to profit from reason?

Because that is it.

It's like beating your head up against the wall.

IMO, she lacks the capacity right now to be rational.

And what's frustrating, just like a WS, gives the ILLUSION OF NORMALITY.

Justuss states that she is keeping her eyes on this and I trust her.

How do you relate to mentally ill folks IRL?

Do you try to talk to those folks when you see them on the street?

They are not only standing on the street corner..they live amongst us...in the guise of normality..

And they THRIVE off the attention...wanting to be the VICTIM..rather than get the HELP that they sorely need...more opportunity to feed into the DELUSIONAL SYSTEM and to keep it going...

"I AM A CHOSEN, SPECIAL PERSON WHO IS VICTIMIZED BY THE MASSES OF SOCIETY WHO CANNOT RELATE TO MY GREATNESS..is the standard mantra...of DELUSION OF GRANDEUR...

She knows that she has heard this before..and has yet to tell me that I am wrong about this...

MereMortal...

Just wanted you to know that I hear what you are saying loud and clear...I understand completely...IMO, back is a tough one because I really do think she is mentally ill...to me that does NOT excuse her treatment of you and others here, it merely explains it...And I'm torn, because while I know that it is completely futile to argue with someone that is mentally ill, I also do not think it's proper to let the insane run the asylum...I don't think others should simply have to take it, but what do you do? I don't have the answer, I just wanted to let you know that I understand and share your frustration...

Mrs. W

IMO:

We have to MOVE AWAY from HER..not TOWARDS her...

That's the solution...

Trying to reason with her just makes it worse...

Again..like the WS...using our attempts to reason..against us..to fuel their own insanity...

I agree Mimi...To engage her is really pointless...Meremortal, I certainly hope that you don't think I have defended Back to the detriment of yourself or others here-I can assure you that that has not been the intent of any of my posts on her own threads or threads about her...Don't take my recent silence to her as something against anyone else...I just really know that to try to rationalize with someone who is mentally ill and irrational is futile...Even though I am still tempted to post to her at times out of my own frustration and triggers...It's a vicious cycle...ugh...

Mrs. W

"Just wanted you to know that I hear what you are saying loud and clear...I understand completely...IMO, back is a tough one because I really do think she is mentally ill...to me that does NOT excuse her treatment of you and others here, it merely explains it...And I'm torn, because while I know that it is completely futile to argue with someone that is mentally ill, I also do not think it's proper to let the insane run the asylum...I don't think others should simply have to take it, but what do you do? I don't have the answer, I just wanted to let you know that I understand and share your frustration...

Mrs. W"

Thanx Mrs. W

She SO reminds me of my warped-perspective brother! And don't worry Mrs. W, I wasn't hurt by anything you posted as I know you and I both recognized in Back similarities with relatives we KNOW have/had the same problem. I guess the negative assumption Back made about my motives for posting to her, and sharing similarities in my own life, are believed by some who are defending her against 'abuse'? That is hurtful to me - that some of the regular posters here might agree with Back that my intent in posting to her was to 'abuse' her!

IMHO she is neither a victim or a goddess, and anyone who in any way supports her deluded thinking is doing her more harm than good. My baby brother didn't become so delusional overnight, it took a lot of 'support' from perhaps well-meaning people. Those who tried to challenge him to adopt a more humble and healthy self-perception were too little, too late, and too chastised by his 'defenders to help him before his problem became so entrenched.

But it's not just that Back is behaving like such a braggart and bully, but also that there are some regulars here who expect us to just endure her abuse in silence, that is too much to ask the posters here to stomach IMHO. I don't get the attitude that the original offenses (Back's postings to others) can be overlooked while those who try to defend themselves and others, AND this message board in general, against her crazy-making hatefulness and/or mental illness, are chastised.

THAT is something I no longer put up with in ANY relationship!

IMHO there needs to be much less focus on how to make this message board safe for trolls and/or the those with severe cases of egomania, and instead make it safe for those who have proven over time they have a genuine interest in adultery recovery.

But hey, for all I know, maybe some people here believe Back's insulting insinuations and accusations and would much rather have Back's 'abusers' leave?

I personally can't stomach the 'Bow Down to Back' BS (and by BS I don't mean Betrayed Spouse).

MereMortal,

Please, please don't leave us. We need you here. And I very much value your contribution.

Jo

Mere:

I don't think we should bow down to her.

I think there's NO GOOD or HELPFUL use in talking to HER.

It's just USELESS...

It will frustrate you and anger you.

I deleted the stuff that I had posted about my grandfather...

I defer to KAYLA's post...

Acknowledging that someone has a brain dysfunction is the first step to differentiating between an evil person and someone who can be used for evil purposes. Satan preys on the sick and afflicted as a way to get to those who are not sick and afflicted.

Until we have better tools to handle untreated, self-unaware individuals, the best thing we can do is put them on ignore and not take their rantings personally.

Once we no longer take someone personally, we can then let love have greater influence and then compassion, and then receive inspiration.

Personally, I've only successfully navigated one relationship through this minefield. The rest, I'm working on the not taking them personally part.

EXACTLY!!

One thing I HAVE learned, both from trying to reason with my WXH and my baby brother, is that the folks who go along with the pretense that they are victims, and can't or shan't be expected to behave more respectively and empathetically towards others, and defend or 'support' them as if their delusional assessments of themselves (high) and others (low) are valid, and in any way endorse the double standard of how these sort of people get treated versus how they treat others...

INCREASE the tendency of such people to just get worse and even more out of touch with reality.

You can't help a delusional person by rewarding their delusional behavior with all sorts of special status priveledges. It's not just that those who are defending her are making DJ's against those of us who are supposedly 'abusing' her... they aren't really helping Back either by reinforcing her false accusations and defending her rudeness.

I am finding this all, not just Back's rudeness, but also the defenses of her rudeness, a bit too much for me right now.

I am choking up, I am struggling with frankly a lot more than Back could imagine in her charmed life, I don't have the financial security and male adoration she keeps bragging about, and I have severe hypertension. From the little she has told us Back's WXH had ONE adultery... My WXH had 7! I stood by him for so long trying valiantly to save my marriage, only to be ultimately dumped by him. My daughters and I were inthe process of being evicted for our home because of the expense of WH's mid-life crisis, adultery dates, and divorce lawyers. We were going to have to go move in with my father for a while to cathc up financially, then my father died suddenly of a heart attack. I found out my father literally died whiel arguing with my mother about me and my daughters moving back home temporarily BECAUSE my baby brother was planning to move back home PERMANENTLY with his wife and daughter. I headed for my father's funeral literally homeless and not even knowing where I would stay while there for my Daddy's funeral. My military relatives got permission for my daughters and I to stay in the guest housing on the military base. Meanwhile my baby brother and mother had changed their minds about allowing me and my daughters to spend the winter in 'their' home... I was informed that I woudl be putting them in a tough financial situation if I didn't stay and pay rent to my baby brother to stay in my parents home! Another relative offered to let us stay in a vacant house in Oklahoma as an alternative. So I drug my daughters across country to spend the winter there.

Oh, and let's not forget that my oldest daughter has never been the same since my WXH started his adultery. She rarely speaks or goes anywhere. She quit skating when her father moved out - and skating was the love of her life - she was a stunningly beautiful skating - a real natural. She then stopped going anywhere, eating, talking, bathing... and ended up in the adult psychiatric ward at the hospital for a few months, then a group home for mostly drug addicts in a very dangerous neighborhood for another couple of months. Now she's back home but a mere shadow of her former self...

My youngest daughter has anger and rebellion issues and went through a stage where she was cutting herself! She also has improved and no longer is self-harming.

Yet I have never requested, and would never accept, the 'special' status Back expects here entitling her to bash others while enjoying such devoted protection from well-meaning but nevertehless perhaps misguided regulars.
I don't want the sort of sick special treatment Back demands... I was just hoping that I could be safe posting here, getting support and supporting others, without having to be subjected to the sort of treatment Back dishes out. I honestly don't see anything wrong with anyone defending themselves or others against Back's BS.

And now a AM crying and I can't afford to subject myself to any more of Back's abuse OR to the way she is being 'defended'. I have no relatives living in this state and can't afford burn-out. I have to be very careful what I tolerate.

Maybe it's simply not possible for this place to be made safe for folks like Back and folks like me?

Mere:

I'm really sad for you...

Don't read her posts and posts about her...

We sooo understand your trials...

I sooo EMPATHIZE with you right this minute...and wish there was some way that I could convey that...

I DEFINITELY WILL POST TO YOU and NOT TO BACK...and want you to do the same...

What I am saying and Kayla, too is that A DELUSIONAL PERSON can only be helped with MEDICATION...it is a BRAIN DISORDER...

I don't think there's anything WRONG about defending yourself against her. But out of my care and concern for YOU, it seems that it would be such a TRIGGER, putting you back in those same situations in which you felt HELPLESS and HOPELESS.

I've learned the value of ACCEPTANCE..that I can ONLY control MYSELF..I certainly have no influence over IRRATIONALITY and CRAZINESS..

I actually used to think that I had those SUPERNATURAL POWERS...I literally tried to hold my whole CRAZY family together as a CHILD..I could stop my father from drinking and stop my mother from raging at him because of it...

I understand your pain over all the events you are speaking about Mere..have been there right there with you...

If there is a situation that TRIGGERS me, I stay away from it..that's what I CAN CONTROL...

I don't go anywhere near a situation that BRINGS ME PAIN..to the extent that you are feeling it today...

I have not kept up with much of what seems TO ME to be nonsense- I popped on here because of the title- here is my take:

MM you have been an inspiration to many and it would not be benefical for you to leave. Please don't let others control you and leave the boards. Just don't engage in communication with them- I guess go dark to them.

This person is probably suffering thier own demons and your words are striking something.

I know I have gotten post from Lovinganyway and Lousygolfer- read them and thought- they have some issues to deal with . . . and it's bleeding into me- when actually when I reflected what they were saying was true and I think them for their time. Maybe this person and each group needs to sit back and reflect.

This forum is a great place to get honest support and feedback. I do not think it would be benefical to anyone to sit around and just agree with is being said "conflict can be good."

So do not chose to leave the boards- just think of those that cause you pain to go dark to.

Just my two cents.

Yes..what I'm saying is to gravitate towards the GOODNESS on the forum...stay away from the DARKNESS