I have a background to speak to this issue - professionally and personally (family members - also raised by Scarlett O'Hara, incarnate.)

Let's just start out with a reality check.

Fact: There is no recovery possible for an unacknowledged bi-polar. When you are in a relationship with a bi-polar you will notice certain things:

1. It's a 'them against the world' issue - if the world would just realize it needs to change...
2. Grandiose perceptions of self
3. Anger against disagreement.
4. Extraordinary measures to get you to buy in to their version of reality - almost like the tide beating down the rocks on the beach
5. Inability to accept that they themselves by their words and behaviors create others' perceptions
6. The attitude that the world should revolve around them.
7. When they are hurting, no one else matters.
8. Minimize their offenses to others, while amplifying slights against them.
9. Religious zealot/extreme tendency to speak for God, Karma, Universe, etc.
10. Swings from extreme high functioning to low functioning - some have an ability to adapt to certain social circles, but during the low functioning cycle would rather not leave their home, get out of bed, etc.

Those who are in relationships with bi-polars know that the disease is so hard to treat simply because the person with the brain disorder cannot tell that THEY are the ones who are sick.

Treatment choices typically involve symptom reducing medications, but the patient has a hard time accepting medication due to the nature of their illness.

I feel blessed - the bi-polar I am closest to finally broke through the wall of "self-unawareness" and learned how to overcome these 10 most prevalent symptoms. Sadly, my mother still suffers from it, untreated and undiagnosed by a professional, simply because she refuses to address her life on that level of honesty with a medical professional, her family or herself.

How did I handle my closest bi-polar relationship? How did he break through?

How would you?

I'll be back after work to address more...

Great post KA...I agree and also have experience living with a relative that had Bipolar Disorder...My father, sadly, never came to true acceptance of his illness and would go on and off meds constantly...He allowed the illness to ultimately destroy him...He passed away in June during a manic episode only 3 days from his 62nd birthday...Bipolar Disorder is a maddening, tragic and cruel illness...<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" />

Mrs. W

Hi KaylaAndy-

My brother is bipolar (not medicated) and I have no idea how to deal with him! I'm really looking forward to your insights.
Thanks
~Saturn

THANK-YOU, KAYLA!!

This is wonderful..

This is what WE NEED...

I am bipolar, Kayla. I was just recently diagnosed with bipolar II. Most people would consider me as a very high functioning bipolar adult.

I always knew something was wrong but it's very difficult to acknowledge that you need help.

I'm trying to go through DBT (dialetical behavior therapy) at a reknown institute next week.

I broke through when I confronted my my WxGF about her A and we broke-up and I went to a psychiatrist.

Unfortunately just like waywards and addicts it takes hitting rock bottom to acknowledge you need help.

Ironically my WxGF has Bipolar as well and I think she also has borderline personality disorder.

Everyone please feel free toa sk me any questions you may have as how to deal with someone who is bipolar. Granted while I'm relatively easy to deal with.

Kayla,

what you describe sounds more like Borderline Personality Disorder or Narcisstic Personality Disorder you may want to look DSM-IV criteria to assess (you need 5 out of 9 criteria to qualify)

I'm mildly bipolar II and I just found out this year. In fact I was the one who told my Dr. that I was and after a series of questions etc she agreed!

I don't do any of the things that are listed on the list except maybe #10 and I'm sure if you talked to my H he would agree with me.

The thing is, this disease is from one spectrum to another. Some people have worse symptoms than others. Some cycle a couple of times a year other cycle more often. Some go completely out of their heads while others can function.

I can get hypomanic- not fully manic and talk really fast. Then I go to the depths of depression. The guilt and the pain at times feels unbearable. This is the hardest part to deal with.

Medication and counseling is the key. I know that I can never come off my medicine, period.

cw,

I agree and it sounds that we've got similar traits. I'm off meds right now because I' entering an outpaitent program on Tuesday for two weeks and starting meds.

I'm aware of my mania and depression and now that I accept my diagnosis I don't feel so guilty about both of them.

Kayla and all who responded,

Thank you very much for this thread and all your input. We are dealing with this very issue with H's family. It has been going on for years and right now another eruption is in process.

I shared this info (with a few minor changes since they are not MB savy <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> )..... with FIL and some of his children. The signs you posted were very similar to what we are seeing.

In this case, it is sad....while there is no A in this case, it is A related since her younger sister is exploiting the disease due to A WS attitudes. Lots of chaos and trouble right now.

At least this helped the others know they are not alone nor are they crazy.

The bi-polar sister right now has lashed out against all of us. I am on the top of her hate list and according to what she wrote today, I am personally responsible for all the bad choices she has made in her life. WOW!!! I didn't know I had that much power!!! Yea... I know better.... for now we have to keep quiet about it because her H isn't on board with the remedy to help her. He wants to placate her attitude. Dumb bunny.... oh well... he is a young kid and likes to learn things the hard way. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I fear for their 2 little ones (both under 3 years old). <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Thanks for the info. Your input was very helpful.

take care,
L.

411 - symptoms of bi-polar and borderline are quite similar; the higher functioning bi-polars can be easily misdiagnosed. I think you point out a very important thing - we can affix a label of bi-polar to someone who may actually be Borderline Personality Disorder instead.

The give-away is that bi-polars do swing down; borderlines that I've been around seem to be more manipulative and intentional - thus even harder to live with. Diagnostic manuals are no assurance that the diagnosis will be correct. Several competent physicians followed the "label" of schizophrenia affixed to someone near and dear to me - the label was affixed by a first year medical student with exactly 1 psychology class under his belt. But when you read the manual, symptomology between Bi-Polar and Schizophrenia and Borderline cite many similarities. Unfortunately, in my loved one's case, no one looked for anything else and he was medicated for schizophrenia, then had to be medicated for the psychosis that medication created and it took another week of hospitalization before he was properly diagnosed with MMPI, and other psychiatric testing.

Coachwife - you point out a great fact - just like cancer has it's stages of severity, bi-polar also has it's levels as well. You are blessed to have taken down that wall to become aware and accepting so that you can participate in your healing.


Orchid - your point is exactly the reason I started this thread. Too many in society lack the knowledge, experience, and frankly LOVE for their fellow man to deal with someone with mental illness. You have that ability, but unfortunately that also makes you the target - remember item # 4 on my list? You are experiencing extraordinary measures for certain.

I promised to come back and address this - how do you live with and love as Jesus loves the mentally ill person?

It has taken a process of 21 years for me to reach the point with the one I am closest to - who has become self-aware. For my mother, who will never reach that point, I just love her, don't try to correct her version of reality, talk about music and other things that we have in common and above all DON'T TAKE A THING SHE SAYS PERSONALLY. Unfortunately my little brother has yet to create this insulation and he just gets sooo frustrated.

The best resource for me personally to stay in a loving state was to become a student of "The Four Agreements". I read this book 4 years ago.

I believe Heavenly Father intervened in the case of my loved one becoming self-aware. He put us on a path of discovery that way. We got involved in some trainings before we encountered Harley's works. In fact, the first part of this journey began less than a year after the mis-diagnosis. But he had his walls up and things did not get better for us - in fact, they progressively got worse. In 1994, we were in a horrible situation with finances and our lives in general. He brought home HNHN - and asked the question I have posted in my signature line - that was the beginning of self-awareness as I recognized it. He went into a 12 step program to deal with the roots of his angry outbursts (which to me were just symptoms of the manic part. For a while, I worried that he had lost his faith to a "higher power" - but it was part of him working through to find his own way to God.

My most recent encounter with bi-polar was with one of my bosses. I've been with my current job less than 5 years, but I didn't see the bi-polar until a year ago. Before I realized what it was, I felt hurt because he was treating me and almost everyone else around him unkindly. Once I recognized what it was, I could literally see it in his face - and I remembered "The Four Agreements" - and stopped taking his hurtful attitude and comments personally and just did my best. Eventually, he came out of the dark side and got on the right treatment - It was so tough to see him go through it though. And it ultimately cost him his job. No longer "manic" and no longer "depressed - just accepting and happy with life, the higher-ups no longer saw him as effective.

Orchid - for the little ones, how much time do you have access to them? I have lived with raising a child in a home with the illness - and I've had some strategies to educate and protect him without undermining my husband's parental authority or my son's love for his father. But I have done it with prayer and much care - waiting for inspiration to find my words.

To everyone - how can you better handle the relationships - face 2 face and cyber in a way that you can have peace about your kindness, compassion and not-enabling-the-illness being congruent with who you are and want to be?

Unfortunately, as much as I have grown in my face-2-face relationships with family and coworkers, I am unwilling to seek out relationships to be a friend to those who are in that self-unaware state - it's just too hard, so I have to put the face-2-face ones that I encounter on my prayer list, and hope that God can use someone else as an instrument for peace in their lives, and ignore the cyber ones. I'm just not that strong, nor that Christ-like yet.

WOW, KAYLA:

THANKS!! I was just about to go get out my Bible to study this...

I'm listening!!

A really helpful book for dealing with this kind of thing is "The Sociopath Next Door"...regardless of pathology or diagnosis, it teaches us how to identify and deal with those who have no conscience, who do things for personal gain at any cost.

So are you saying DETACHMENT is the answer???

Jesus never sought out the mentally ill or any other kind of ill - He waited until the ill sought Him out for healing. He would ask if there were any among them that were ill or wanted healing to come to Him.

We cannot force healing on anyone.

We can pray for those who are unwell. But as a very wise therapist chastised me to get out of Heavenly Father's way - let my loved one fall and hit bottom so that he would seek healing.

So - we get out of the way. But we must also protect the little ones. Orchid's concern over the children in that home reminds me of Melody Lane's concern over the wounded here in the path of one who for whatever reason serves as a distraction.

So how to we balance protection with compassion and kindness?

Kayla,

Actually for now we are channeling our support via one brother who at this time still has access to her husband. Her in-laws know she is off balance and so do some of his friends but she has twisted it so that others are to blame for her state of mind.

Her husband is quite young to be dealing with all of this about 23. She is about 32. So the immaturity factor weighs against us.

As for the children, they live near his parents which is why at this time, I have asked the brother to contact his parents and keep them in the loop. At the very least, the authorities can be called in if needed. In this case, the authorities have been called in the past and the family knows this is an option because YSIL refuses to get properly treated for her condition or even diagnosed.

We don't live near them at all. I am giving support primarily via phone calls and e-mails.

The key factor is identification and then solution management. I know that sounds very factual but that is what is comes down to. To make decisions based on emotions or not wanting to hurt someone really does hurt the one who is off-balance (aka: Bi-polar or similar). In H's family one son was schizophrenic and bi-polar often accompanies this in the family history. So I am not making all this up.

Thanks again for your input. I shared it with the family and that one brother found the info and comments helpful.

Mahalo,
L.

Folks here are not children.

One of the most important lessons that I have learned HERE is to take responsibility for myself.

Kayla,

Agree bi-polar, BPD, and schitzophrenia do share a lot of symtpoms. It's hard to deliniate one from another. In my case my WxGF exhibited absurd anger, and was very manipulative and blameshifted everything. I felt like I was walking on eggshells and she was always asking me to do something and then criticizing me. I couldn't udnerstand her bevior and I realized that it was just bi-polar. The problem is that BPD comes with other disorders like OCD (Obsessive Compulsive disorder) or Anti-social disorder or anxiety disorder.

Ok.... but folks here may have children who are affected by this illness via their parents, themselves, siblings or others. Isn't the point that we need to be able to recognize the symptoms enough to encourage proper diagnosis? We are not professionals of this illness, mostly those who have had experience with or around it.

I understand the need to learn and take responsibility for ourselves individually but doesn't that also include helping others? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

L.

I agree with you, Orchid.

I'm one here who is a parent to one or more children affected by bipolar/similar mood disorders. I've made it my business to learn as much as I can, including meeting many of the leading researchers in pediatric bipolar disorder. Here is some of what I have learned:

These are brain illnesses. The people who have them suffer a great deal, and as an added bonus often cause a lot of suffering for everyone around them.

They are genetic in origin. Usually some environmental trigger sets off the first episode in a genetically vulnerable person. Some of the researchers are talking now about the triggers being something so small as a few seconds' oxygen deprivation during delivery.

The suicide rate for untreated bipolar may be as high as 20%.

There is a lot of hope with medication and good health practices (regular sleep, exercise and diet.) The best thing you can do for a loved one with bipolar is encourage them to take their meds and get their sleep. By the time a bipolar is missing nights of sleep there is a serious episode rearing its ugly head. The researchers have been able to document improved brain function on fMRI exams in bipolar teens who take their meds. That is very hopeful.

If there is a family history of alcoholism or drug addiction or depression, there is an increased risk for bipolar. If you have a child who has hours-long rages,violent behavior, talk of suicide, extreme irritablity, unusually decreased need for sleep, it is a good idea to have the child evaluated by a qualified child psychiatrist. The doctor should be told of any "interesting" family history. I am not talking about a short episode of a bad mood that goes away. I am talking about extremes of behavior and temperament that cause concern over time.

Not every child who has symptoms consistent with bipolar disorder will go on to develop the full-blown adult disorder. Most will struggle a lot, but do better with appropriate medical care. Many will also develop symptoms from the other spectrums, such as the autism spectrum, or OCD. Many will develop drug and alcohol addictions.

This is a terribly sad brain disorder. My son teaches me about courage every single day.

But if I don't take responsiblity for his care and treatment, who will? It isn't going away.

Oh.... wasn't sure if I had missed some info or got on the wrong track.

Thanks for updating Mimi.

LeAnne