I am moving my discussion to this board b/c it seems much more active. To those who want to read my whole story, it is in the recovery section, entitled "In recovery 9 months/still struggling," or you can follow the link in my sig line. I copied the last post I made below, which was in response to Ace's inquiry about our progress, and her question if we had read about "just compensation." Noone had responded to my question yet, and I thought I would have better luck on the GQ section.
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We actually read the article on 'just compensation' months ago. I understand and even agree with the concept, but I don't really have much left to give up. I have done next to nothing with the CD I made, other than give it to a few friends and family members. I have made very little mention about the music in general, either, because it is still a major trigger for him. We both made the terrible mistake of tying the A and the OM with my music, when it existed for almost 20 years b4 all this happened. This also leads me to my next question. I waited a couple days to post again, because I wanted to enjoy the respite we've had since my breakdown last Wed. night (12/5), but here it is...

How long should I wait b4 pursuing my dreams again? It seems, especially since I've been meditating, that everywhere I look there are signs telling me that it is my calling and I cannot let it go. I do not want to upset him any further, so I have put it on the back-burner until some time passes and he can pull away from the worst of the pain. Don't get me wrong, I do NOT want to be a "rock-star" or any such thing, just weddings, civic events, maybe down the line start an all-girl band (which has always been my dream)...all things of which he would be a big part. I want him there like he always was, cheering me on and being my biggest fan. This cannot be the "just compensation" thing that I give up, because I wouldn't even want to be alive without my dreams. I don't think he would ever ask me to give it up completely, anyways. But my question is...how long should I wait? Whenever I bring it up, he tells me that he cannot be happy about it right now, but if I give him time, he will be OK with it. So that's what I am doing. But it is extra money that we need, and I could make up to $200 for a Saturday afternoon wedding with very little time away from home. I just can't shake this urge to move forward with it... I am 34 years old and not getting any younger, if ya know what I mean! Here is the analagy that I make to him:

Say that your profession, your "calling" if you will, was carpentry. You have been doing it for many, many years- since the age of ten. Then one day, you start working with a new company building a house. You meet up with another carpenter who is your partner on this particular house. In the process of spending time together on the project, you have an A. I would whole-heartedly agree with never seeing or working with that partner again, and even quitting that company so as not to ever have contact with that person...even moving away from that location (as you could be a carpenter anywhere, especially if you are talented). But if your spouse decided to stay with you and work things out, he/she could not do so and then say, "but you cannot be a carpenter anymore, because it reminds me too much of the A." Does this make sense, or am I way off base here?

SS,

You asked how long you should wait....and my best answer to you is that you should wait until you can successful POJA this issue....and not one minute before. It will be your task to help your husband feel emotionally safe enough to even WANT to POJA this issue. And then....it will be up to you to help him feel enthusiastic about it. For him to feel enthusiastic....he has to GET something out of the deal. Besides money....which doesn't seem important enough to him....what does he GET out you singing on weekends? What's in the deal for him?

So I'm guessing your dream is being a successful musician?

And I'm also guessing you had an affair with a groupie of sorts or fellow musician. Is this correct?

Jo

He has stated after reading my post that he would not have a problem with me doing weddings, or things like "The National Anthem" which I have done for major sporting events. I think the biggest problem would be starting a band b/c it puts me in the bar scene (which neither one of us has ever been into) and causes too much worry about another A. Incidentally, being on stage with a band has been my dream since the age of ten.

So, I agree with you that my focus should be (and IS) repairing the damage I have done. I read his post, which is coming soon, over the weekend and I was...wow, searching for a word here...stunned, horrified, sickened by my behavior. Did you get a chance to read my whole story, or just this thread?

As for what he gets out of it, while I believe in the POJA, I also believe a person brings his or her own self into the relationship (to thine own self be true). When we met, it was b/c I was singing, it is what drew us together, and has always been a huge part of my identity. Because I have always supported him in every endeavor, I would hope what he "gets" out of it is mutual happiness and pleasure. If one member of a union denies the other their dream for any reason, they are both destined to a life of resentment and unhappiness.

To Resilient,

I made a CD last year and the engineer/producer was the OM.

Ooookay, so I have first hand experience with this as I was married to a professional musician for 16+ years.

We had similar issues that were catalyst to the demise of our marriage.

I'm not lumping all musicians in this bucket, but a medium to high percentage of them have a top EN of excessive admiration. Sometimes I think their love of music is second to that.

Have you asked yourself if you NEED to be admired by more than just your husband?

Jo

Nobody is talking about "denying dreams". The Poja PREVENTS resentment and unhappiness resulting from sacrifice. It's about getting both TAKERS to the table....not the givers who are crummy negotiators that settle and sacrifice. The POJA is about WIN/WIN negotiation. Personally, I hope you reach the point where your husband feels comfortable with you joining a band.

I don't know what it will take to help him be enthusiastic about it....but I know what probably won't work: talking to him about your dreams when the manner that you pursued your dreams resulted in an affair he's still reeling from. What are HIS dreams?

I agree with both of you.

To answer R, I will say that admiration has never, ever been my intent with music. I am only in it to uplift others as much as I can, and to move people through music. The fact that anyone has ever screamed and hyperventalated over a musician just b/c they are famous or whatever has always baffled me. I have artists that I admire greatly, but if I were suddenly face to face with them, I wouldn't fall apart or gush, etc. So, this has never been my goal. Think of your most cherished music...the music that always makes you feel better when you are down. That is what I want to bring to people's lives, nothing more.

To SF, I guess the real question has been answered when he said he was OK with me going forward a little bit. Nothing more can be done right now, anyways, b/c of our financial situation. A good microphone and amps cost a ton, and we couldn't afford it. I shouldn't ever act like he is going to stifle me, b/c he never would. Your last paragraph is what I'm needing to hear more of, though...very helpful, thank you!

His dreams are to own his own computer/website business and make a ton of money so we can be together as a family as much as possible. He was doing this until I acted with such utterly dispicable behavior.

SS,

I had a really good friend of mine who used to be a wise poster here....she said: "Trust is a paycheck, not the lottery". I say "Recovery is a process not an event." Both of those statments are about "consistency over time". It takes both time and consistency to re-establish trust and compatibility. If you love each other....and it sounds like you do....then you owe it to yourselves to start following the rules of a sucessful marriage: honesty, care, time and protection. If you want him to be able to embrace your dream then you've got to be able to make your dream a safe reality....with good marital boundaries....that you create and enforce.

My daughter is a wonderful singer/songwriter who is pursuing the same dream. My son plays four instruments.....so I know how it gets in your blood....I was always the "band mom" because my son was the drummer....lucky me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> But I have to agree completely with Resilient about musicians/performers of all kinds....have a great need for attention/admiration/appreciation. There's nothing wrong with that....as long as you surround that with an ethical structure that will keep you out of vulnerable situations.

Yes, bars are hard on marriages....but I can think of a couple of things you could do that would help. My daughter's husband goes with her to band practice and shows. My son's fiance does the same thing.

Read "Surving an Affair" together, and "Not Just Friends". Your marriage has to be as big of a priority as your music if you're marriage is going to survive the music business.

Keep posting, reading, learning. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

That's always been my point to him, that I want him there with me. I hate being anywhere without him! He is my partner-in-crime, man...a true soulmate. The funny thing is-the reason our marriage always worked is b/c we always did things the "POJA" way. We did it out of mutual respect and love for each other. We could never understand why people decided to get married that had separate bank accounts and the "your stuff, my stuff" mentality.

We will get through this as he says- one day at a time.

Thanks for the support and advice.

Bumping for StillSinging.

It helps if you keep your whole story in the same thread you already started.

Usually when both spouses post here they each have their own threads.

Thanks for the bump, MM! And remember, my whole story is linked in my sig line, just in case you are in the mood for 2 novels tonight <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> ((Just teasin, honey! lol)) Mine is not quite as long as w2s.

To begin the dicussion from here, I have decided to shelf any and all thoughts of pursuing my music until he is ready, and until this finacial mess is handled. He is looking for another job that will enable us both to work (he works 4-12:30 at night), but for now I am doing 90% of the stuff around here so that he can work. The other problem with putting the 3 year old in daycare is that he is not completely potty trained, although he has been about 80% there for months. Just cannot seem to contain all accidents! The other (and biggest) things is-he won't eat. The list of things he will eat is very short, and he absolutely refuses to try anything new. We have tried just about everything. Our preschool has their lunch delivered every day, and they do not have time to make him something special just so he will eat. The reason I get into this is that if anyone has suggestions on this, let me know. He is unbelievably smart, though, and at 2.5 could count to 20, knows his colors and shapes, and he amazes us on a daily basis. The oldest was always very smart, too, but this one is crazy smart. And stubborn (he gets that from his dad)!!! Once he gets over the eating thing, I know he wold love to go to school. He gets his backpack out every day to go to school like big brother.

I have been looking, and with my experience, I should get something decent soon. He is making probably $5 more an hour than I could start out making, so he went first. I am working with the little one to get him to try new things.

Anyways, there you have it!

Hey S_S,

I posted to you and W2S on his thread...



Please think about this statement and see how it applies to W2S's dreams...

I'm not trying to be smart or mean... I just want you to try and look at this statement from HIS perspective.

The "Band"/Bar scene is just asking for trouble, especially now. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> I can almost bet that if you continue to ask about this... that it will just push you both further apart.

Focus on rebuilding your M. A's have consequences and if you are truly wanting to rebuild, then you may have to place your "dreams" on hold for a while until you and your H can POJA this together.

Semper Fi,

RIF

SS,

I don't know if you two are religious but there are many large churches out there with very dynamic music programs.

If you two are Christians there are other issues, like submission (not a bad word), which could also apply over and above POJA which may be relevant to this decision about your music as well.

Let me know and I'll link in Mortarman's threads about biblical roles of husband's and wives for you both to read.

Mr. Wondering

I understand, thanks for your input.

As I said above (and the posts may have come up at the same time, so you didn't see mine above) I (we) have decided to put the music on hold indefinitely. We need to work on the M first, along with the financial situation, before any talk of the music resumes. From the changes that have happened for both of us this past week, though, there is no doubt for either of us that this will work out eventually. It will be up to him, though, not me.

To answer Mr. W, our plan is to make sure we do not ever take each other for granted again. To listen to each other completely, and not assume that it is just my anger talking, or his obsessive nature, or whatever, and really hear each other at all times. We are both taking an active role in the financial side of things...I am looking for a good job, and he is still looking for something with more traditional hours so that even though we have to work outside the home, we still have our family dinner and evening together. This is so imporatnt to both of us. It's funny, his temp agency just called and they are still looking for something for him also that is day shift (and possible more money, not less).

I truly believe that if we work together to reach the same goals, things will fall into place pretty easily. Not that there will not be hard times, but for the most part, things will work themselves out financially. We have been at both ends of that spectrum, so we are drawing on our experience to help us along.

ahhhh, I just read your most recent post, Mr. W.

NO OFFENSE TO ANYONE, BUT

Here's the thing about us (and we both feel very strongly the same way about this). We are very spiritual, but do not believe in the business of religion. We actually feel (no offense) that most (99%) of churches preach things that are completely contradictory to what Jesus came to teach. From the age of 10, I have sung in churches (probably over 250 performances in almost every denomination) and have been exposed to just about every religious doctrine out there. I am a Contemporary Christian singer (Sandi Patti stuff is mostly what I sing). There have been many times I almost walked out b/c of what they preach...fear of God, He11 and damnation, submission, etc. My God is an unconditionally loving, wonderful spirit of light. I site "Conversations with God" as our greatest example of what we believe. Many churches ban it b/c it is too far off their fear speak and their people may read it and see the light! We do not believe in He11 or the Devil, we believe everyone (and I mean everyone) goes to the same place...back to the light. They may have work to do once they get there based on what they have done in this life, and b4 they get to come back, but there is no such thing as He11. And noone should "fear" GOD...ever.

Like I said, everyone is entitled to their opinions, beliefs, churches, etc. But ours is very different, so we won't preach to anyone, 'kay!!

No offense.

Just trying to get a perspective.

I'll lay off the Christian stuff.

AFTER saying this one last thing.

Consider this: God MAY be chasing you.

Consider all that you have both done.

Such as (to the limited amount it's been disclosed):

1. Premarital sex
2. Co-habitation prior to marriage
3. Being led by the flesh into a "soulmate" type marriage (you guys met, 2 months later moved in together, and got married I think 6 months later)

I AM NOT JUDGING YOU. I shacked up with my wife prior to marriage with all the normal justifications (save money, engaged, etc.). I also had a lot of premarital sex. I/we certainly lived the life of the flesh.

Your affair was a recreation of your romance with your husband. The way he swept you off your feet and you both rushed into your marriage, in essence, made you, at least, susceptible to your affair. History repeats itself and you both had a hand in it.

MB is the best. But spiritual, religious, or whatever you want to call it, IMO shouldn't be overlooked. Afterall, Dr. Harley himself feels strongly that these very principles were "Godly inspired" and revealled to him by God (notice the Logo).

Could your situation...BOTH OF YOU...be consequences for past transgressions/sins??? Pride, lust, the flesh, etc. Just think about it. I am not looking for a response.

I'll leave it alone.

Mr. Wondering

I am posting here to move this part of the discussion to my thread, b/c I promised to stay off of DH's thread (want2stay). The discussion is whether to tell the OM's wife about the A. Actually not whether or not she should be told, we ALL agree that she should.

The problem is that the OM is truly a bad person. I did not know until after the A what kind of person he really was and who his friends were. One had just gotten out of jail and came to the studio while I was there to see him. They were like brothers, and this guy is a serious felon, as are many of his friends. The OM has no family, and would rely very heavily on these people if she kicks him out. She may forgive him, and then I wouldn't worry as much, although we would never really know one way or the other what she does unless he did retaliate.

How much danger should we put our family in just to expose him to his wife? If I hadn't been such an idiot and brought him to our home, he wouldn't know where we live, and this would not be an issue in the slightest. She would have been told months ago. The only thing that has held us back (b/c I was on board with telling her from the moment I got the CD in May) is this fear of dangerous retaliation. I am here by myself with the boys from 3:30-almost 1:00 a.m.

Noone has addressed this part of the concern of me and w2s about telling her, probably b/c you think I am using it as an excuse or something. I don't know how I could possibly prove what kind of person he is to you, but w2s knows, and that is the ONLY reason we haven't moved forward with this part of the recovery.

You do what is right, or you don't. As I said in W2S's thread, its very unlikely OM will do anything. If you are very concerned, expose to OMW and go out of town for a week or so while the dust settles.

OK, I just read the others' response (wow Mrs. W, tell me how you really feel <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> )

If that's what you guys think, then I believe you. I am having a hard time with wanting to protect my kids from retaliation just to tell some chick we don't even know that her husband is a louse...but we came to you for guidance b/c you've all been through it, and if you say that he is not a true, physical threat to our family, I believe you.

I have actually told DH that OM is a coward, and that I have serious doubts that he will do anything, but there is always that possibilty. I will reiterate that I did NOT know about OM's past/friends until well after the PA had ended. Whether it would have made a difference, sadly, I do not know.

I can't figure out WHAT I was thinking at the time or WHY it happened, other than the distance bwtween H and I. But that seems like such an empty excuse. I always knew DH loved me and the boys with all his heart. I realize it is a very important question to get to the bottom of so that nothing like this happens again, and I (we) am working on figuring it out.