Phew - I thought for a moment she was referring to me!

Sorry guys, he'll be home in a half hour, and then we'll definitely "get a room!" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

BTW-all copies of the CD have been rounded up and stashed. Sadly, I had to ask him what he meant by "copies of it lying all over the house." I didn't even realize it.

PS-wasn't my flower purdy!

Happy Saturday, MBers!

want2stay finally had some time to put together his "spy" package for any who may need it. He put it in his thread, and will also post it to the "spy 101" thread.

Check it out, it is complete with screen shots and everything. He is truly the BOMB DIGGITY YA'LL!!!!!!!!!

Hey.....I remember you two....from the Recovery forum the first of Dec. Glad you've both been getting great help. I'm fairly new myself so I limit myself to being the resident cheerleader....(Thanks, Miss M).

Glad things are working out for you but I have one question:

Will you please post the steps for creating that beautiful flower? It is gorgeous! Can [color:"blue"] colors[/color] [color:"green"] be[/color] [color:"red"] added[/color] [color:"purple"] ?[/color] Sorry ....2 questions! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Thanks,
Ace

OK, I just posted to TMTS's post and it got me thinking about last night...I need some help here.

After he got home we got to talking and I mentioned that I really WISHED he would have done more than just read this site/posts when he found it. I WISHED he would have posted like TTH and TMTS because it may have saved him at least some of the pain I was causing. Instead, he leaned on me, and I was completely fogged and unable to do anything but bring him more pain during that time. I think he would have gotten great support and understanding every step of the way, and would have stopped literally corning me and talking about the R for hours and hours and hours, and days at a time. There were times I wanted to run out the house screaming b/c even though I begged and begged he wouldn't stop. NOW, please understand that this was my viewpoint then. I know now that he really believed with all of his heart that he, himself, could get through to me all by himself. But it took him threatening to leave, coupled with my recent meditation which has brought down many of my walls (walls I have always had, even though he has never proven to be anything but unconditionally loving). My parents are the King and Queen of conditional love, though, and it stuck with me through most of my adult life. So, the walls were always up until recently. During my meditations, I have opened up, and let down some of those wall, so whan he stayed angry that night and stuck to his guns about wanting a D, I completely broke down and begged him to stay. Then I came here and started spewing fogspeak, but with the intent of getting guidance and learning as much as I could.

I know I shouldn't have even said it, because he felt I was judging him for the way he handled the sitch. I really wasn't trying to judge him, just saying that many of the things that he says hurt him over the past few months may not have happened (LB) if he had leaned on you instead of me. I know we cannot change the past, and that it doesn't matter how we got to this point, only that we are here NOW.

Thoughts, please...

Ace! Howdy chickie!

I was wondering where you had been! You were one of the first ones to help me here. Much obliged to ya for that!

Go to google and search for ascii art. He says it is really hard, though, on this forum b/c everything is forced against the left margin and it took him (Mr. Computer GURU himself) like 15 minutes to get it to display properly. Colors did not work, either (he tried), but you could try. He was at work and had a very limited time frame...

Hi LaLa...

You know, it IS pretty disrespectful AND a lovebuster to tell W2S what he SHOULD have done relative to the poor choices that you made...I think I understand, you now wish he had had support...Okay BUT...Instead of pointing out any "should haves" or "I wish you would haves", why not concentrate on the AMAZING strength, courage and love that it has taken for W2S to stand by you and still want you even at your WORST...BSs are the picture of AMAZING GRACE...Be awed by him, love him and tell him OFTEN that he is your HERO...He didn't owe you anything and yet he has given you everything...You crushed his self esteem and hurt him more than there are words to say...And there he stands, hand outstretched, willing to still love and cherish you...What an incredibly strong and loving man you have...

And you know, love actually IS conditional...W2S would have eventually had to cut you loose if you would have continued down the wayward path...He could not have completely sacrificed himself for you, lest he allowed himself to be destroyed...Think more about this notion of "unconditional soulmate love" that the two of you like to cling to...It is not accurate, nor is it mature or healthy...Love has to be conditional in this imperfect world...You fall in love and stay in love by meeting each other's ENs, without doing that, you both would fall out of love with each other...Guess what? That makes love conditional...The more you read MB materials the more you will come to understand this...

Mrs. W

OK, I got it. Thank you for your advice.

I admire your ability to ask for input and consider changing your perspective...This will serve your recovery well and allow for a more fulfilling marriage than you ever thought possible LaLa...<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Mrs. W

I am in such a bad place today. I just feel like crying every five minutes. Part of it is the fact that I just started yesterday for the first time in four months (sorry men, for TMI). But a big part is based in history, and I will disclose some of it now, b/c I feel much more comforatble sharing than I did a week ago. My very first post contained this info, but I went back and erased it b/c I didn't want to be judged by people I didn't yet know or trust.

Back in July, I went off Effexor (AD) because we could no longer afford it, and because I had been on it for almost three years and felt it was time to try life without it. It was one of the hardest six weeks I have ever experienced. The physical withdrawl was unbelievable, complete with spins, brain shivers (I got this terminology from the many, many sites out there that are based on the withdrawl horrors of this particular drug) and full panic attacks. It was also the worst possible sitch to be trying to get off of meds. The up side to being on the drug was that for those three years, I was happier/calmer than I have ever been in my life. I was on the very lowest dosage, so I didn't have any noticable side effects unless I missed a dose, and then...WOW. But it was enough to "even me out" and I did not constantly live with that anger raging inside. I was finally rid of things like road rage, dealing with stupid or rude people (my perception, I do not LIKE to feel this way), feeling like DH was not helpful around the house (even though he was) which led to him feeling he could do nothing right, etc. I was peaceful, plain and simple. Aside form the cost, DH had brought it to my attention (this would not have occured to me, I don't think) that he felt it was partially responsible for my A. He called me A-motional (like A-sexual) and said it was this mindset that probably made me feel it was OK to have the A. He still feels it was at least partially to blame.

The other part of the story, is that up until early October of this year (roughly 2 months ago) I was a very heavy pot smoker. The reason I went on the Effexor was b/c I had gotten clean for both pregnancies and after I had second DS, I didn't want to end up back on that road again. But I did anyways. For about the last six weeks, the physical/mental addiction has been gone (I have been clean for over two months), my rational side has taken over, and I realize that I will never go back to that lifestyle. It was a huge factor in my work ethic and my constant moodiness. I have smoked since my Freshman year in HS, although not regularly unitl my senior year in college. Then when everything blew up with my parents and I left college and moved in with DH, I just became hibernation girl and smoked myself stupid all day, every day. I understand now what all (or at least most) of the reasons were of why I did this, and it is just another one of the things DH has endured. Although he smoked with me every night, so he did enjoy it...to a certain extent. Any time he tried to confront me about the amount I was using, though, I just basically told him, "you married a smoker-deal with it!" So, he shut up to avoid conflict. We always kept it hidden from the kids, believe it or not, and they were never affected by it directly, although my oldest son was affected indirectly when he was 2-3 yrs old, due to my mood swings (please understand, I have never been abusive verbally or physically, just moody). Since I was on the Effexor after the youngest was born, he didn't see that drastically moody side of me until just recently. I have the patience of a piss ant these days, and I have tried to turn to meditation to alleviate some of this frustration I feel. I am not, and have never been, a drinker, so a glass of wine/cocktail at night to help alleviate the stress just gives me an instant headache.

I just feel so lost now, and the reason I am telling you all this is to get your much valued opinion. I think I really need to go back on meds...it may be a chemical thing or something. But I still feel ashamed by it for some reason. I am sooo scared of the physical addiction of the meds, and the possible withdrawl I may go through in the future if I have to come back off of them. It was truly awful, and I never want to go through that again. I also tell you so that you can understand my warped perceptions sometimes, even beyond being "foggy." This anger thing, which came out in this thread a couple nights ago (plus my soap box is so shiny and new, you see <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> ) is becoming unbearable.

I am not creating a poor me scenario here, I am asking for help. I feel like running far, far away sometimes, and if it wasn't for my boys and DH, I probably would have by now.

Thank God for them. And thank God for you.

Any suggestions?

I felt curling up in a ball this afternoon, but I found that as I kept reading and posting I started feeling better. So my suggestion is to just sit right where you are for a while and let it out.

(((((LaLa)))))

Lots of courage to put that out there...and lots of smarts for doing it too! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I'm gonna take a shot in the dark on this and you let me know if I'm right, k? My guess about you is this...You are an all or nothing kind of personality, yes? Meaning that anything you do, you go in all the way on, right? So when you diet, you REALLY diet...When you eat, you REALLY eat...When you exercise you don't build up to it, but go immediately to the extreme...I'm guessing this is the way you approach everything in your life...Your singing, the OM, the pot smoking...The whole enchilada...

If so, that is an addict mentality...I do think you would benefit greatly from some sort of 12 step program...Actually I think most people would benefit from one...The pastor at our church even works a 12 step for pride...If you are like me, I am the addiction transference queen...Throwing myself fully at anything that I can...be it shopping, dieting, eating, prescription pills, reading, the affair...you get the picture...I have to monitor all aspects of my life for that...

As far as the Effexor goes...Effexor is one of the "bad" ones for withdrawal as I understand it...There are certainly others out there that do NOT have those effects...Wellbutrin is one, and I believe there is a generic for it and so it would cost less...You may not even need the antidepressant, but rather a mood stabilizer of some sort...Naturally you would need to speak to a doctor about this...Pharmaceutical companies do have programs where you can get their drugs free or at a reduced cost...Speak to your doctor about it, because even many of them are willing to give you their samples if you explain your current financial situation to them...I know that won't be easy, but it IS necessary...I do not think that being off meds is a valid alternative...Your moods are detrimental to your health and also to your marital recovery...

There are also doctors that do studies on mood disorders that will treat you FREE for being a part of their medical studies...I would look into that as well...

Let me know if I am hitting anywhere close to the ballpark with my assessment...Keep posting and we'll try to get some solutions out there for you...

Mrs. W

P.S. Having Aunt Flo in town DOES make things seem more bleak...Sometimes just knowing that can help you by showing you that this is only temporary...Things WILL get better...

OK, hubby is sitting right behind me goin "DING DING DING" like you just won the jackpot...and I'm trying not to smack him. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Addictive personality, yes, I think that would be accurate. I will address this going forward and try to find help on that particular personality, ahem, trait .

And I will ask my doc about the Welbutrin, and explain the Effexor withdrawl. I'm sure there is something better I could be on than Effexor!

Thanks for your support...that post was really hard, but I already feel better.

Yeah, but if you smack him for ME, it's not a lovebuster right? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

You are very welcome for my support LaLa...I'll offer you whatever I can...I suspect all this stuff is quite common amongst WSs...It's that "approval junkie" raging inside you...that search for outside validation...The key is learning that validation comes from within...IMO, from God...The approval is already there...It only has to be accepted by you...simple, but not necessarily easy...

You are asking the right questions...I have faith in you...A humble heart is what this journey takes...

Mrs. W

Thank you.

I'm good enough, I'm smart enough and darnit people like me! (hahaha) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Hubby said if I smack him for you it's voluntary assult and he'll get Mr.W to prosecute <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

WOW, I think I just understood what becoming a WS is all about... Validation! She is looking for validation, and since I wasn't validating her as much as she needed she found it somewhere else. B Mrs.W makes a vary good point. She will need to find self validation at one point. I need to remember that should we ever get to recovery stage and help her find that within herself.

Yepper! I am a validation junkie!

Sad, but true <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Resonance:

I've been following your threads, and your BH's thread...I actually read all of W2S's posts the first night. There are several things in your/W2S's story that reminded me of my own, but some of what I think may be similar is just my sense of you and W2S. Two of the things that struck a chord with me was your anger (quick trigger) that W2S's hinted about, and your need for outside validation, which I sensed right from the beginning.

My STBXWW "hrdhddwoman" (HHW) and I were frequent posters on the Recovery board earlier this year. Like you, she did a complete turnaround when I gave up last January, and almost immediately she was madly in-love with me, remorseful, and was willing to do whatever to rebuild our marriage. I really respect the turnaround that you have made, and I am pulling for you to continue on the right path.

A lot of what you have posted so far, reminds my of HHW during that time earlier in the year for our M. BUT, I really wanted to caution you to do some serious work on your need for outside validation, and your anger tendencies. Four months after HHW did a complete turnaround, she flipped back just as unexpectedly. I feel that for a while she was getting enough validation from the boards, but as soon as everything wasn't quite peachy, she sought outside validation offline from one previous board member, and I think that the offline validation she received helped destroy our family.

Please remember that you are a valuable person that has chosen to do some pretty awful things to the one person that should never have been the target of your anger. Learn that your value comes from you living true to your code, not from outside sources.

Other than that, I can't affer much except encouragement to continue on the right path. Your chldren are depending on you.

Good luck,

LoBoy

Be careful of this thought process TMTS...Your wife's need for external validation is not a healthy one-that amounts to looking outside to others to see how you feel about yourself-this is self sabotage in the worst way-self worth being defined solely on the opinions of others-not very stable ground yanno? Now, admiration is an EN for many people, but that needs to be given when a person does esteemable things (Doing the esteemable is where healthy self esteem comes from)...Admiration need not be given as false ego stroking, which is what happens in an affair...She must come to self validate on her own...It is not something that you can "help her with" really, other than encouraging her to seek out things that will esteem her...As well as going to a good IC...

Hope that makes some sense...

Mrs. W