Mrs.W I think you took the words right out of my mouth. What you explain is exactly where I was going with this. She did go to IC and MC in June and was told something very similar. She needs to come to that realization before she can really move forward. Until then any recovery will be futile. She does seem to be finding "herself" since she has been back to work (Since last March, 8 months after EA started). Will it be enough? I think that at this time it will not be. She has always had someone to take care of her; she went from her parents to me. I think that much of her willingness to leave has much to do with this. She needs to prove to herself that she can make it on her own. I would prefer that she search for something that would validate her within the marriage, like going back to school or pursuing interior decorating work which is interested in.
I do understand what you are saying... validation must come from within.
Thanks

Thanks LoBoy for your post, your advice and your encouragement. I am sorry things didn't work out for you.

You said that she flipped back around...but I am kinda unclear on why. I got that maybe she was not feeling validated on the boards anymore, so she sought offline validation from a former board member. Can you explain a little more about this?

As for the needing of outside validation goes, I am sure mine is based (for the most part) on the fact that I never received validation from my parents. It was all A's and 1 B on the report card, and the "what's with the B" kind of thing (to put it very mildly). It went on to be much more severe, and the only time I received any kind of support from them is when I was doing exactly what they thought I should be doing. Completely breaking away from them when I was 22 to marry my husband nearly destroyed my relationship with them permanently. They hated me and him for going against what they thought was best for me. Luckily, some of the changes I was able to make back then dealt a lot with this problem, and I have learned, and am continuing to learn, that I do not need anyone else to make me feel important or to love myself. I have re-built my relationship with them, realizing that they will never change, and all I could do was change the way I reacted to them.

Being a musician also creates the need for validation...applause, being in front of other people to entertain them, etc. It can be very difficult to take sometimes, if the validation is not there. And so you learn to build up a huge tolerance to rejection, getting knocked back, then validated, knocked back, then validated. So while it is a great feeling in the good moments, you come to really depend on your inner self to get you through the bad moments, ya know. To pick yourself back up and try again. I draw on that experiance even now to help keep myself going when things are tough.

My need for validation right now is because I have realized what a mess I have made of our life together as a couple, and I am searching for answers. As the fog clears, I have to be sure to stay on the right path and that I still have a lot of work to do. Sometimes validation is needed by other people on the same path, to be certain that you are making the right choices, or are in the right frame of mind.

But I have to look at this positively within myself. I have stopped doing many of the things that were self-destructive. Coming clean about the A, quitting the use of drugs to mask my pain, and severing all ties with my best friend (whom I was friends with for almost as many years as I've been with DH) because she was hindering our recovery- just to name a few. She was the epitome of single mother, you need to follow your dreams, I am woman, blah blah blah. She was very validating to my ego and I still sent her packing. I knew her plan was self-serving b/c she was single and want me to be also, so that we could run around together. But I stuck to it, and decided her validation was unhealthy. A person who only lives for validation from others would never have that kind of strength. I know my value as a person, although it has taken a huge blow in the past few months due to my mistakes. I consider myself very lucky to be married to someone as loving and as understanding as my DH. Otherwise, I would be struggling in a whole new way, and it would be noone's fault but my own. But here's the key (I think)...if that had happened, I would eventually have picked myself back up and made the best of my life for my children. I would eventually be OK. That comes from an inner knowledge that I am a strong person. It would be a huge tragedy, but I would be OK.

It will be a long, hard road, I am sure, but it is a road I am willing to take to right the wrongs and move forward with our life together.

I must say, though, that your post really brought me back down to Earth. It has been a horrible 18 months, and I realize that it isn't going to be easy at all. It's like I told w2s earlier, I am trying to be a better person first so that I can be a better wife to him and a better mother for my children. Not to mention a happier person in general! This is a process, and it will take time, but we will get there.

PS-

My DH just brought up a good point. My problem is not with needing validation. My biggest problem right now is that I am very quick to react- usually in a defensive way- before thinking things through. I need to build a "take a step back and think" approach into my personality. Reprogram myself that in those moments where I have an initial defensive reation to a situation, to just shut up and think before I react. This would solve a lot of the anger issues as well.

Unfortunately, I have the same problem and so does my H when we have "A" discussions. He is more like what you described for yourself I think, and I get angry because of it, but have also done it myself.

I'll be interested in what works for you. I think your suggestion above is a good one. We TRY to use it ourselves but find it difficult when the emotions get high. I actually have to leave the conversation at that point. Sometimes I don't and that is NEVER good. /sigh again

Mopey, I have read your posts in other threads and you are just a funny gal! You will be fine. Many people have this knee-jerk reaction built in, I am just choosing not to let it control me anymore.

I have a lot of work to do, that's for sure!

I gotta ask you from that sig line, though...how are you getting past all of his "junk"...WOW!!!!!!! That makes you amazing in my eyes!!!!!!

Resonance:

Yes, my STBXWW did a complete turnaround, like you, and was wholly committed to building a new M. Shortly after she decided that she wanted our M, we went to a non-MB marriage seminar, and I thought it worked wonders for us and our recovery...at the end of the seminar, she asked me to re-marry her. But her committment only lasted for about four months.

Those four months were incredible, and I want you to enjoy the honeymoon phase that you and W2S are in right now...but there will be challenges you two will face. Right now, you are basking in love and gratitude for the stregnth of W2S to stand by your M, and that is a choice for you everyday to maintain that state of mind. But it wasn't that long ago that you chose to harbor resentment against W2S, to find and focus on his faults, to overlook his strengths and place your choices higher than your family. That fog doesn't fully clear overnight. I have read posts from FWW's about how easy and quickly women can put up that wall of resentment. The next time you and W2S face a challenge, you may find it hard not to revert to your old ways of thinking...dredging up that old resentment...especially considering your anger tendencies.

There were many things that happened with my STBXWW's reversal, and who knows how much each contributed to her reversal...but within two weeks, she went from being madly in love and calling me her hero, to talking about separation and divorce. One of the things that contributed to my M falling apart was that as soon as we a rough spot, which amounted to a small problem/misunderstanding on Mother's Day, her anger surfaced again...all of her old resentments were back and instead of choosing to see the good in our M, she chose to see everything through the filters of old resentments held onto from our past.

There were many other factors that I think contributed to our demise, including many of my reactions to what was happening, and also the two of us stepping all over each others' threads. This small Mother's Day misunderstanding spiraled out of control, and there was a lot of searching for validation on her part to get separated, etc. When she didn't get that from MB, she started emailing a previous member privately looking for guidance and validation...and at the same time she re-established relationships with some friends from HS that I think provided the same 'validation' you were getting from the 'friend' you have distanced yourself from.

You are right, the whole I Am Woman, blah, blah, blah. Sure, women are every bit as important and equal as men, but I still do not comprehend how that mindset coordinates with children, family and marriage. The incredible happiness you are experiencing right now is tied to your separate/individual part of being a loving and equal part in a marriage and family...where the sum together is greater than the individual parts.

If you were alone, you probably would have picked yourself back up and made the best life you could for you and your children, and W2S would probably have done the same. But can you honestly believe that what you could've achieved on your own, would match what you are experiencing now? What about if the two of you continue to work together to build a great relationship and family?

Just be careful that you don't let your anger, your old resentments, and your desire for validation start to influence your choices and your marital recovery...knowing the destruction your prior choices have caused on your family, imagine the trauma on your family if your current dramatic changes were only short-lived...

Stay here...listen and learn from Mrs_W and LA and others that have transformed their lives and families.

My best to both you and W2S.

Thanks,

LoBoy

LoBoy - was it SmartCookie by any chance your wife was emailing?

Thanks again LoBoy, I really appreciate your openness and your willingness to share what must be very painful to you right now.

Yes, I do believe what we are building together is ten times what I could ever have on my own, make that a thousand times better. I just thank God that I was able to see through her selfishness...she was always very envious of me and DH and our family/relationship. And this from a woman who has been married twice, her last marriage only lasted 1 year and ended in a completely horrible divorce nightmare with a baby involved. Not to mention the string of unbelievable bad choices for boyfriends. Always drama! When she left, in her scathing voice mail to me she said that "at least I'm not living a LIE like YOU." Oh really? The problem with that theory was, she had revealed herself to me many times unintentionally, because almost every time I would go out with her, on our way home in her drunken stupor she would cry and say "you are so lucky you have someone to go home to that loves you...I don't have anyone" and that whole thing. That's when her true "toughness" showed, ya know! I guess I do owe her a little bit, because in those moments I had some of my greatest movements towards wanting to fix things for my own family. As much as she yelled "I am woman" she still couldn't hide her empitness and longing for a family, and it made me think..."What am I doing out at 1:00 a.m. with YOU. I have never wanted this lifestyle- not even when I was in college and SINGLE for goodness sake!" Kinda like "How'd I get HERE!"

Anyways, it is important for me to hear what you have to say, and sooo valuable. I am sorry that has to be from your sad experience that I draw knowledge, though, and I wish you the very best!

BK:

No, it was not SmartCookie. It was 10Swords/Mates4Life.

In her defense, I don't believe that Swords/Mates was advocating separation, but after 6 weeks or so of our disagreement/fighting spiraling out of control, the MB vets were encouraging us to sit down and POJA/negotiate the issues to come to a resolution. But when the private emailing started, I think that the advice being offered was feeding my STBXWW's resentment and anger against me, and to stand firm with no POJA/negotiation.

After what I had gone through during Plan A, I was unwilling to just continue our old marital script of me giving in, and doing whatever in the hopes of my W checking back into the M. I wanted us to use the MB POJA idea to find a resolution that we could both be enthusiastic about. This whole situation was exacerbated by the fact that my business, which until recently was providing us with a healthy income, had taken a serious downturn.

There were a lot of difficult factors hitting all at once.



Res:

Thanks for your thoughts.

I also wanted to say that what you wrote below is truly fantastic. I really want to see you two become a success story.


Thanks,

LoBoy

PS - as you learned by really listening to your 'friend', the single life is not everything it is cracked up to be.

Mornin' everyone! We had a great weekend together. It is so nice to be comfortable around each other again. For almost a year and a half we have been like strangers...

How is everybody? toomuch, try, how are things today? try, we didn't hear from you over the weekend...hope all is well!

Hi LaLa - Not good, I'm in a real bad place right now... lots of hopelessness. I know I need to be more patient, but my heart gets in the way and I get stupid. Read my post from last night and this morning and you'll get a better idea. Right now I feel like the fog has set in permanently and nothing will get her out of it. I'm really sad!

Good Afternoon LaLa! Glad to hear you had a nice weekend! I've been sick myself, just a sore throat, stuffy nose and such...pretty par for this time of year...We had blizzard type conditions here on Saturday that dumped about a foot of snow...Kinda pretty at Christmastime...Today is a snowday for DD...She's ecstatic of course...lol...

Anyway, back to MB type stuff, how about calling your doctor today to make an appointment to talk about getting on new meds?

Mrs. W

I gotta wait on the doc thing just a few more days...DH starts getting his med insurance the first of the year, so I will go then. I wish I could go today! But things are getting back to normal around here and that really helps my general frame of mind.

Sorry to hear you're sick! Hope you feel better.

Gonna go get the kiddos lunch for now, be back soon.

ps-we had a blizzard this weekend too (I think we're both in OH, no?) and it is pretty!

Nope not Ohio for us...We are in Michigan! (Metro Detroit)...Mr. W just likes to be silly and put that he is 200 miles from Wapakoneta next to his posting name! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> We pass through there when we drive to Atlanta (my home town)...We are dorks and EVERY single time we drive through one of us will always say "Hey, have you ever been to Wapakoneta?" I stopped there once and got him a shirt! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Anytime something goes missing around our house we say "it's probably in Toledo"...So we do use lots of humor involving Ohio! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Glad to hear the medical insurance kicks in soon! That is GREAT news! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Mrs. W

MrsBB got sick on Saturday too - fever, aches/pains, cold symptoms. Down to "just" cold symptoms now; I took good care of her over the weekend. A lot of people are sick down here.

It's cold here too...I think it's only getting up to 55 today <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

55! Oh boo-hoo for you <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> Here it feels like..maybe 10! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Hey bit! Just had a crazy afternoon. Man, I could use a kid break. Good grief! They were supposed to go with my parents for an overnight on Saturday, but we got snowed in and had to call it off. I had looked forward to it all week. It was probably one of the reasons I was pretty down on Saturday. I was also a little overwhelmed at the amount of info I've digested this week, ya know.

But I've been making a comeback the last couple days, and am trying to really enjoy just being here. No fighting, no tension, and content for the first time in a long, long time.

BTW bit, I hope your wife feels better soon!

How is your Husband feeling LaLa? I'm glad you are feeling better.

He says he feels like a 2 ton weight has been lifted off his shoulders. He went to work the other night and rather than being quiet and down, he was smiling and joking around with the other guys. Says he is feeling like his old happy self again. I am so glad. I missed that guy very badly!

BTW-I was 100% behind you on that religious/political debate (you and Krazy). I just kept my big mouth shut, though, because many people here are helping me and I do not want to alienate anyone. But it was sooo hard. I'm not very good at shutting up when it comes to those types of debates! I wrote up a whole speach, but then just let it go. Right now I need to stay focused on fixing my mistakes and being a better person for DH and DSs...so I'll keeping my muzzle on......for now! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Did you read the beautiful post your hubby put up today? It brought a tear to my eye...