Hey TT

Hope things are going well.

I know I have been hard on you with my past posts and I will just sit back and read from this point out unless I hear from you.

I wish the best for you and your H.
My prayers will be with you both.


Rocky

Hey everyone--

I changed my name (although I may change it back just for recognition purposes...) because "regret" didn't seem appropriate anymore. But anywho...

Rocky... thanks for compiling all of that for me. It helps to have it all in one place rather than over 20-some odd pages.

TMTS- thanks for forcing me to keep up. I've been really busy recently... that's why I was taking a little break.

OK-- so in terms of the alcohol, etc. (and my weekend). Well- I've now attended TWO al-anon meetings. I've done a lot of reading. And truthfully... I don't know if he REALLY fits the mold. I think he's teetering on the edge-- not that I'm making "excuses" for him... I think he's got that tendency... but really I don't think he's quite "there" yet. Truthfully... I think its just his PERSONALITY. He's emotionally immature. Drinking makes him emotionally immature AND lowers his inhibitions... so he does dumb things and says dumb things. But... those aren't EXCLUSIVE to when he's drinking... or times where he's even had problems with drinking. ******-- I've known him for 12 years now, way before we were even of drinking age-- and you he's had some of these "tendencies" as long as I've known him-- alcohol removed. He's a VERY self entitled person... he can't take criticism (even if it is warranted and presented in a constructive manner)... he blames everything on everyone else (nothing is ever his fault, he never screws up in life), and he has a VERY VERY VERY high EN for admiration... FROM EVERYONE. Which is why as soon as he feels one relationship is collapsing he IMMEDIATELY goes searching for someone else to stroke his ego (did it to his ex while we were friends... did it to me 3 times (his 3 EAs).

Moral of the story... while I think alcohol is a component to this, I CERTAINLY don't think that it is necessarily the entire problem, or even a large contributer really. I think really he's just very, very immature. He can't handle the "real world". He was also VERY sheltered as a child (although he denies this...). Truthfully-- I just think he needs to grow the F up and stop being so immature and self centered.

I think this is PRIMARILY a personality problem... not an alcohol problem. Caused by his sheltered childhood... Mommy never held him accountable for anything, and according to Mommy, her children can do no wrong (even when they do... its someone else's fault...). He has NO CLUE how to accept responsibility for something... just how to blame others to get by.



OK-- so my weekend. Actually pretty good. Friday night we went to a friend's birthday party. He was very nice. Saturday we did some errands and then went to a viewing and then out with his cousin to dinner. Very nice again. Sunday we went to breakfast with one of my friends and then he went to a hockey game with his "little brother" (he's in the big brothers big sisters program) and bought me a little gift while he was there. It was nice. He sent me cute little texts all day. Really, my weekend was very good.

Last night he even came with me to the dog's therapy visit (which he usually doesn't do... or I have to beg him to come with me... he just came on his own...).

Oh-- and yesterday online he made a backhanded comment about OM (and me)-- and then apologized for the comment and just said he had been having a rough time the past few days. That was a surprise. Usually he just keeps going once he starts-- and never apologizes.

This morning he cleaned my car off for me, and took the dog out before we left (usually my job).

I've been holding to my half plan A half 180 recently. Been working well.

This weekend we are leaving on Friday to go snowboarding in VT with some friends from college. Should be interesting. Valentines day should be fun too.

I do appreciate all the help you guys have been giving me. But at some level... I don't think that my husband is quite like Julie's. I think the emphasis has been just a little bit TOO much on the drinking. I think this is just a fundamental PERSONALITY problem with him-- and that the drinking just lowers his inhibitions enough that the small amount of self control he had before is just gone and whatever pops into his head he says-- no matter how terrible. And he is only looking out for himself, big time.

He needs to grow up. Fast. And learn how to operate in the real world where Mommy isn't cleaning up your messes... .literally and figuratively.

TT

Hi TT,

Remember we talked about his mommy issue a couple of weeks ago. He replaced her with you. Someone he can manipulate and control. You want to be careful about reading to much into this because if he is the way you describe this will be short lived because he is only changing his tactics because the old ones do not work anymore, so your job is to remain consistent. The worse thing you could do right now is to do nothing the next time he blows up on you. Know that it will come and be ready to walk away from it.

About the drinking. If you asked him to stop, could he? Would he? It may not be the determining factor to your stitch, but it sure isn’t helping it either.

Let's hope he comes around and sees you as his W not his M, because until he does your just chasing your tail.

Yeah, I don't think he'd have any problem stopping drinking. And it doesn't help things one bit... and I think if I asked him to stop all together and it was any other time, he would. Right now, he probably wouldn't. Not because he couldn't, but just because he really can't do anything for me out of principle right now.

We'll see how the next few weeks go. Even though this is "better" than before... I am not accepting this as a long term thing. I will still go plan B in March. We need to commit TOGETHER to a plan of recovery for both of individually and also as a couple. There's no substitute. And he HAS to pull his half of the weight... and stop trying to weasel his way out of responsibility for his own actions...

Its together or nothing.... this "sweep it under the rug and hope it goes away, and use it against you when it is in my favor" isn't going to last.

We'll see. He still keeps tossing around his whole "you don't know how much damage you've done... and "I'm not ready to commit to this" "I don't know if I want this or not"... and I've come to the conclusion that he's not going to decide until he HAS to (just like he refused to recognize how bad things had gotten between us until the A...)... he's just too selfish right now to see beyond himself.

I still hold out that we CAN do this together... but at the same time... I know I've grown a lot and am a better person for all of this.

I'm still acting with MB principles in my mind... especially for recovering from an A. But with my guard up.

And I am ready and waiting for his next hissy fit, TMTS. And yes, I'm fully aware that the (only) reason he probably changed how he's behaving is because I stopped reacting. The other day he tried to bring up another R talk (he tries this ALL THE TIME... just so that he can BEAT into me over and over again that he "doesn't know" and get a reaction out of me, and remind me Over and over and over again how much I hurt him... well I just flat out told him, matter of factly, that I DIDN'T WANT TO TALK TO HIM about this stuff. Not until he was ready to have a constructive conversation. And that was it. That was all I said. I stopped him. And I think that kinda caught him off guard. It was RIGHT AFTER that that he apologized for the crappy comment he made to me about me and OM. (He had made the comment as a way to lead into the R talk...).

Just changing my approach. Really becoming apathetic anymore...

I'm too good for him, the way that he is now... he has some introspection and some self improvement to do too. Can't do that for him. Can't make him WANT to be a better person. If he's happy with the miserable person that he is now, well, so be it. That doesn't mean that I have to go along for the ride.

I'm having a "renters" mind frame... (from another thread... the buyer, renter, and freeloader...).

RIM

...YET. (I've learned from some of the best!)

TT, I'm sad for you cuz you're riding the roller coaster & it's not fun. But I also know that cramming something down your throat is counter-productive so I'm popping here now, will continue to read, but will keep to myself. I wish you nothing but the best!

~Julie

Hi TT, please check in. I'm worried about you!

You ok? Things getting any better?

Got better, than much, much worse....

Valentine's day was great. He got me flowers, and a really sweet card about how proud he was of me of all my changes and how much he loved me and how he was trying to get back to where he was... it made me cry.

We went to VT this weekend. Had A GREAT time together. There was lots of alcohol floating around. He hardly drank at all. It was really just the two of us for a lot of the weekend.

We got home today, and I went to run a few errands after we got home. I hadn't checked my work email at all since Thursday. Well-- H came home, and checked it "for" me (he has my passwords... I am being transparent). Well-- OM decided to send me a SEVEN PAGE f'ing RAMBLING about all this stupid ******. I don't even understand 3/4 of it. Really, at this point, I think HE KNOWS he's f'ing with me and us.

Well I get home from the errands, and H is in a rare form. He's not angry actually. Doesn't flip out, but is practically having an anxiety attack. He tells me about the letter and to read it. And he says he has to leave. And he does. Well, I read the letter and about half way in (my brain is totally not functioning thru any of this...) I start getting light headed. I start hyperventilating and I start shaking. I can't handle it. I call H... he answers. I tell him what is going on. He's actually very nice, trying to calm me down. I was begging him to come home.

I told him I want to write a NC letter (I never did because I keep THINKING I'm in NC... but then OM decides to email me or something else stupid. Or text me (that was why I changed my phone number...). I said I wanted to email a version of it tonight. And that I wanted to print out a version and send it via certified mail tomorrow-- and say if OM doesn't leave me alone, I'm getting a restraining order. I'm serious at this point-- this is getting ridiculous. Everytime f'ing time I think things have turned a corner.......

So I'm sitting at home flipping out. Totally flipping out. I think H may be over at OM's house right now... when I called, I heard someone in the background say that he was blocking their driveway, and he said he was over in the area where OM lives... but he said he wasn't going there because "it wasn't going to make anything better".

I told him I want to fight for us TOGETHER. That I want to fight OM and for our marriage together. He says he needs time to think. I said I understand. I said I really wanted him to come home now... that I needed him. That I would do whatever he wanted. If he didn't want to talk, if he wanted me to leave him alone... I would... whatever he wanted.

He says he needs to go over the letter. Figure out where I'm "lying". The letter is a bunch of RAMBLINGS. I don't understand 3/4 of the letter.

Really-- H responded really well to all of this. He didn't flip. Didn't respond with anger...

He's here


TT

TT, He's back? That's good!!!
Ok my DW and I had two sessions with Jenifer and the first one concentrated almost completely on this. She didn't care about anything else other than extreme measures to ensure NC. So here are some of the things she talked about.

1- Change all phone numbers and e-mail addresses. Do the E-mail now, you can cancel those really fast.
2- Phone numbers. (You mentioned you changed your cell number), do it again.
3- If he knows where you work, (In my case he does), so JH gave us the following. When going from your car to the building, and when you leave, call your H and stay on the phone with him until you get in the car. Also talk to someone you can count on at work to walk out with you. Also at work, they need to know what he looks like so that if he ever comes there they can intercept him coming near you.
4- Any other attempt at contact and you get that RO.

TT the point she was trying to make is that you have to do everything you can to avoid even having any kind of contact. You have transparency, but he can still get to you (And you saw what it did).

TT breathe dear. This is good. My gut told me from the beginning that he wanted to make this work.
If you can get him on here to vent and get some guidance, you know he will find it.

Hi TMTS--

I've changed my cell number-- he hasn't figure it out yet (I was very selective about who I gave the number this time).

The email he sent stuff to is my work email. I don't even think he knows my personal email account address (my hotmail one). I don't even really use it myself that often. I'm not sure if I CAN even change my work email... or if that would cause problems with the classes I'm teaching for my students and stuff. I can look into it. I'm also looking into "blocking" him from emailing me from his account.

B/C my boss is in charge of building access, and our building is a locked, secure building you need a key card to access, it was very easy for me to ensure he doesn't have access. My boss has inactivated his card, since he no longer works there and has no reason to be in here.

I am sending an email NC letter today-- approved by H. I hadn't sent an official NC letter before this because OM hadn't contacted me in a long time-- and I didn't want to send a NC letter and open a can of worms. But, now it is warranted. With a threat of a RO if any further contact is attempted.

H came home last night, and was upset, but civil. There was no yelling. I was shocked he even came home. His reaction to this has been really great (well, as good as it can be). He's upset, he's angry... but he's dealing with it APPROPRIATELY this time. I'm really truly proud of him. This morning I told him I didn't want to let this ruin a wonderful Valentine's day and weekend we had just had. He actually AGREED with me. He's upset and angry, and feels like now maybe I "left things out" (I haven't... OM sounded pretty desperate in his email... it was a word attachment that was 6 pages long... he's really romanticizing things at this point, so I'm sure reading that upset H...).

H is meeting me for lunch in a bit. He's really being reasonable about this, and I'm so proud of him. I said he could ask me whatever questions he wants to about the email. I said that I didn't want him to just "assume" the worst case scenario about any of it, and get upset. That I understood he was upset and angry, and needed time.

He told me this morning he's trying to change some things (and that was what he said in his Valentine's day card to me too). And he really is. And I'm proud of him. And I hate OM for ruining what what a spectacular weekend for us. With all the alcohol around, he hardly drank at all (and other people were plastered and acting like idiots in the house...), he was very sweet to me, we spent a lot of time alone, and he even apologized for snapping at me once (it was a very minor snap over something stupid, but he apologized for it).

The timing of this just sucks. But its time to send that NC letter, I guess. I'm sending via email, then I'm sending one via certified mail, so if any more contact is initiated, I have proof for a RO.

I'm proud of him, and scared. I'm proud of him for not "taking this out" on me, I told him I want to fight this together, that I don't want this to ruin us and come between our progress. That we needed to take care of OM once and for all before healing could start for sure.

I'll keep you updated on how the day goes. I'm still terrified and waiting for a blow up. But he was aloof but caring this morning. Made me tea, and laid in bed with me. He definitely wasn't affectionate, but I didn't expect that.

We'll see how the day goes...

TT

Baby steps right? It sounds like you a BOTH wanting to pull in the same direction and that’s very different to what your past was like. I remember you saying that he knows about MB. It may be time to bring up reading the basics concepts.

The work we have been doing with Jennifer has been great. She really focuses on what needs to be done and not what happened in the past. to the point that when I tried to explain how we got to this on moving day and the day before she cut me off and told me that it had no bearing on what we were trying to do. Her point is, for us to concentrate on our attitudes now and for the future. Now there may come a time where we can and will talk about the A, but now is not the time.

You guys might benefit from a similar approach. Just an Idea.

I just got through reading your story. It sounds like your DH is coming around. Keep expressing the fact that you do not want contact with the OM and you are mad that he is hurting your husband and your marriage. Ask your DH to help you figure out how to block him from e-mailing you. This will give your DH some feeling of power over the situation and not that he is powerless. Sending the NC letter with your DH is a great idea.
Good luck.

Thanks Suamico.

I really hope he's coming around and that this doesn't set us back too much. We just got back from lunch, and it was a nice lunch. Had a nice conversation, and it was pretty normal (other than the elephant in the room...). He was a little aloof still, and I pretty much carried the conversation, but that's OK and a step forward.

I guess what I struggle with is how to "help" him with this. If I ask, he says "he's fine" and "he doesn't need my help", etc etc. I've been trying to express that I really want to help him and do whatever I need to do... and that I think we are better off doing this TOGETHER, but I can't MAKE him-- yanno?

I think that H is now doubting a lot of what I've told him after reading the sappy (disgusting) letter that OM wrote me too. OM is really romanticizing all of this. Plus, H now probably thinks that I've been getting letters like this from him for awhile (which I haven't...)-- H has had my email account passwords for awhile, so he can check whenever he'd like.

I am trying to reassure H that I didn't lie to him, that I'm really really working as hard as I can to get OM out of this. H keeps telling me over and over "it will never be over" and "he will never go away" (not this time, but has in the past). He did tell me that he believed me that I really was trying hard and didn't WANT OM to contact me.

I am really just cautious that this didn't set us back even more. H had said that he was gonna try hard, etc (and is!) before this stupid letter. We had a good weekend. This is such awful timing. H keeps saying he needs to "re-evaluate" things and think about things.

Tonight he is going to a hockey game with a friend... (I am not going). So we will be apart for a good part of the night. I'm hoping a night out with one of his friends and a hockey game will be good for him. I really feel awful this had to happen now-- and even though I didn't want it, didn't ask for it, and it makes me very angry-- I still feel guilty.

TT

Thanks TMTS--

You're right, we aren't ready to talk about it right now. And we really haven't been-- other than when something like this happens and it gets shoved in the forefront right now.

I know he's been reading my thread, but hasn't recently. That was also part of why I changed my name-- to make it harder for him to find my thread because sometimes some of the stuff I say on here is really just venting-- and not things I really think should be shared with him right now. Maybe someday, but not now. I can't change my thread name anymore though... so I am stuck with this title...

It is nice to be pulling in the same direction. Well-- I wouldn't say we are pulling in the same direction-- he's just making a conscious effort NOT to work against me and our M over the actions of someone else anymore.

There's still a heavy tension there... and I'm still on guard-- waiting for the apocalypse to commence (aka-- him to freak out...). But so far so good. I want to get back on track and get back to where we were this weekend and stuff-- but I know right now I need to give him some time and space to process this-- and time for us to get some closure in the form of a NC letter.

Tonight he is going to a hockey game and tomorrow is his guys poker night, so hopefully that will help with "distracting" him a bit so that he doesn't sit around and "stew" about all of this and dream up worst case scenarios. That is usually what sets him off.

Dealing with this carefully. And trying to "wait out" his upsetness (because he's dealing with it more appropriately... I still wish he would talk to me about it or let me "help".. but this is a huge step up from flipping out...). I just don't want this to become a major setback. If anything, this is an opportunity to do something I should have done a long time ago.

Still taking it mintue by minute right now...

TT

Oh-- and I've asked him if he wanted to post here, etc, and he's shot that down. And when I asked him about reading some of the concepts here, he kinda scoffed at that too. So I didn't push it, because that needs to come from him. Every once in awhile I bring it up again, but not recently.

He says he doesn't need advice from a bunch of strangers, and no one can really know his situation so its irrelevant. I've tried telling him over and over again that I was SHOCKED at how similar our situation was to so many other people's... that we aren't alone, that he isn't alone, that a lot of people "understand" and have BTDT.... that was one of the first things that stunned me being here... that we weren't "unique" and really EVERYONE'S situation has some common themes running through them. I think maybe it would help him understand more what happened... and what he's going through now. But I haven't had much luck there. I told him I was reluctant at first when this was first suggested to me... but its been one of the most therapeutic things, both for my M and me... that I've EVER experienced.

We'll see...

TT