TMTS,

I never slapped you for venting, only for trying to engage in relationship discussions with a WW... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

And maybe a time or two for whining a little too much. (Oh, Woe is me...) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I understand fighting for it but does this not cross the respect boundaries? (Insert 2x42X4 here if warranted)

This is what I have been trying to tell you. You attempt to negotiate an end to the affair while doing everything in you power to get her to fall in love with you all over again. You don't react to her, you...(say it with me)

Meet her ENs
Avoid Love Busters
_________(Fill in the blank)

Don't fix the marriage; restore the love. The first is mostly fixed by the second. Working on the former guarantees failing at the latter.

Any time you do anything expecting her to change her behavior, you are trying to control her actions, thoughts, feelings etc. You can't make her change. You have to make her want to change. You do that by making her fall in love with you again. To do that you...

1)_______
2)_______
3)_______

You change you and what you do. That is all you have control over...

Mark

Mrs.W - Tall order when the woman wants to lead a separate life outside the home, but I'll give it a shot. I'll ask her to go out on New Years Eve, and see what happens.
I'll just take a deep breath first and concentrate on not reacting to her negatively.

Mark - I'm implying that you probably should slap me around more.

I need to get a hold of my ODD and tell her that we have different plans... We were going to go see the folks tomorrow (WW working), but they are out of town. This would give her the opportunity on Saturday and Sunday night to meet up with OM if I go.

Time to test the waters. I've got nothing else to loose.

Mrs.W - Was there a time where you thought of leaving? Either for the OM or not?

I'll handle this Mark...THWACK!!!!!!!!!!!!

Are you kidding me about the respect boundaries? What respect boundaries does she have for you, her HUSBAND, by having an A? She hasn't earned boundaries yet. She still has to prove to you that she is trustworthy before that can happen.

Gotta go get my OS from school...but I'LL BE BACK!!! (Arnold style)

LaLa - Thanks for the 2x4... I needed that.

But I was thinking in term of and DJ - or LB.

I just got off the phone with my ODD, and she let me know in no uncertain terms that she does not like the change of plans. "I need to get away from her for a little while" was her quote.

If I just knew that the OM was not in town, or truly not interested I would feel more comfortable leaving town...I didn't expect that one.

TMTS,

I just posted a rant on boundaries to TryTooHard. Go read it...You too LaLa.

Boundaries are never about controlling others, only about what I will and will not do myself. Boundaries define what is me and what is not. Others must set their boundaries, I cannot do it for them. All of my boundaries MUST be about what I do or how I will respond.

"You will not do ____." This is NOT a valid boundary I that can set because it isn't about me but you.

"If you do X, I will do Y, Z and Q. (Or just go curling) This is a VALID boundary that I can set because it is about ME and not you.

TMTS, she has her boundaries about what she will or will not do in response to you. But what she failed to have was a boundary that defined what she would and would not allow another man to do and therefore she had no predetermined enforcement of those boundaries. That is what led to all of this, inappropriate boundaries and total lack of enforcement of any that did exist.

I would suggest that her threat of moving out is in fact a response to your violation of a boundary that states that she will not allow you to interfere with her affair.

LaLa, Boundaries aren't earned, they are set, by the person that has them. Violation of boundaries is when we intrude into another's domain and attempt to control what is going on inside their boundaries.

Respect and trust must be earned. While TMTS is attempting to earn his wife's respect by fighting for the marriage, and in all likelihood will succeed at that (though that does not mean she will not leave, file for divorce or even get the divorce, only that she will eventually see that she would be better off to have stayed married and probably seek to reconcile), she is doing nothing to earn his trust.

Mark

Yes...I remember after OM dumped me that I thought that if I were single I could reverse his decision...Mr. W and I were at lunch when I told him that I wanted to separate...Very calmly and matter of factly he simply said "No"...That stumped me and I shut up about it...Of course there was the added advantage for Mr. W that OM was out of state and he sure as heck wasn't going to let me take our DD with me...

Mrs. W

Mark-
I totally gotcha! I guess you are just much better than me at stating it...I shouldn't have tried to post with only two minutes to do so!

Any chance the kids can stay there while you come back home? That way, they have their space, while you take care of business.

And Mark-do you think he should come back and muck up her (possible) plans?

If there is a way that your DDs can go stay with your parents, then GREAT...But YOU need to be there TMTS...You are in the battle for your family, now is not the time to get away without your wife...And it really makes no difference if OM is in town or not...You need to take EVERY opportunity to meet needs and fill her lovebank...Your marriage is hanging in the balance right now...I know this is hard, but you must MAN UP, STAY AND FIGHT!!!

Mrs. W

Without ANY doubt in my mind at all.

She has no right to make plans that include someone else in her marriage.

None...

Zero...

Zilch...

Nada...

Mark

I was just thinking the same thing. I need to show her my backbone that she knows I have. There is no way to get the kids out there, but if they get angry, they get angry. So I go out to the folks place at the same time as she does... point blank. I come back at the same time... point blank.
Tonight I offer that we take the same vehicle. (We were going to take two vehicles). I'll pop this stuff on her tonight. It's time to really fight!!!

Any of you think it's appropriate that I tell her that the fight is on? I was thinking...

"WW, so long as you are still in our house, I fully intend to show you my desire for you. I am changing my plans for the weekend and next week and will only be going to visit the same days you are. Would you like to come in the same car as us? Also I would like to take you out on New Year Eve; I will make all the arrangements"

Now I've got to get ready for reverse babble...

Let me know what you think?

Ok I'm getting a little confused... as far as she's concerned we don't have a marriage anymore. Does my last post still apply? What next?

Sorry for being so stupid about this.

TMTS,

You don't need to fight against HER, only the affair...

She isn't the enemy, the affair is the enemy...

Not saying don't take the kids to parents see Grandpa and Grandma, just don't stay there all week and wait for WW to run around while you're gone.

If she is coming home for the party, you are coming home for the party. Figure out a way to tell her that and see what she says. If she changes her plans and decides not to go, you will know she was planning on seeing OM there. If that is the case, you will know it, but will have prevented it.

Read Mrs W's post about how to approach the party issue. That is the point...You can't leave her to herself all week.

If you take the kids to visit this weekend, have them call her a couple of times...preferably a little late in the evening. Make it hard for WW to have time to spend with OM either IRL or by phone/computer. (My opinion)

Just don't give her free reign to run around with OM (especially the party)

"I think I'll come home early to go to the party with you."

" Why would you want to go to the party with me?"

"I need to have some fun too, ya know..." (leave the room...)

Mark

She doesn't know what she wants right now.

When I told my H about the A, he started watching me. Cell phone records, work email, etc. I knew he was watching, plus the OM had abandoned me, and it went a long way in keeping me from contacting him. He didn't bring it up a lot, but I knew he was watching. Every time I even tried to (or did) cross that boundary, he would get very firm (mostly sadness is what I saw), but not angry, and say "Do you really want to lose the wonderful life that we have together with our children and put them through a D? I don't, because I love you with all of my heart." I remember being just floored, angry at being watched- for sure, but also floored that he still wanted to be with me after all I had done. Talk about your LB deposits!!

SHE is conflicted, but YOU have decided to try and stay together. So, you should take the lead, no matter what she says, and SHOW her that you still love her and want to be with her. That you do not want time apart. Then yes, reverse babble. Get that innocent look down for which I'm convinced Mr.W should have a patent! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Like I said b4, if she wanted to leave that bad, she would have found a way! She wants it all...you have to show her that "it all" is YOU!

You might "break" the computer before you go too. Lossen a RAM stick or unplug the cable to the hard drive or something. "sorry honey, I don't know what happened, I'll deal with it when I get home!"

Don't tell her you plan on going to the party. Come home, act as if you thought you were invited.

Have you called OMW to let her know she might want to be extra vigilant regarding OM's whereabouts that day? Perhaps its not even possible that he will be available which would allow you to go and not worry about her breaking NC?

Don't forewarn her TMTS-Forewarned is forearmed yanno...That would be like giving the other team your playbook...No need to tell her you are fighting, just DO it-ACTIONS...Don't give her an itinerary beforehand, you simply DO things as they come up...Right before your trip tomorrow, just before packing the car you ask it she'd like to ride with you guys because you've decided you are not going to be staying at your parents for an extended length of time afterall...Element of surprise works best you see...With New Year's Eve you just make assumptive statements, MUCH in the same way she is doing to you really...Think about it, she is making statements about leaving, you start making statements that presume your marriage is continuing...In sales this method is known as "the assumptive close"...Right now she has you SOLD on the idea that the marriage is over...Nah Uh, No More...You ain't buyin' it...From now on you work from the presumption that YOU are the salesman here and you are SURE she is buyin'...

Mrs. W

Ok, she'll be home soon and she is very sick (Should have stayed home), so I stay tomorrow, and see how she is feeling on Sunday. If she still feels like garbage we go Monday (And offer to take one car).

So I take care of her (I stopped to get her medicine).
Set up the Vaporizer and see what else she needs to be comfortable. I will suggest we skip curling because she is not feeling well.

No expectations!
Remember why you’re doing this!
You do this because you choose to!!!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Mark

The alien is back!!! She's talking to her mother right now and all I heard her say was "it will be what we make it" in a real nasty tone. So I figure her M asked her something about X-Mas. I think she had something planned for tomorrow night. When I told her I wouldn't be leaving until Sunday, she said that she was looking forward to having the place to herself.
So we decided to stay in for the night so I will see what ENs I can get in.

So far so good.... if there are other comments, ideas or slaps, please do not hesitate.

Too much-

First post to you - I am originally from north of the border (Northern Ontario.) I immigrated to Texas in early 80's after meeting my wife in DC. I guess that makes me a TexiCan now.

Anyway - this is a great Plan A opportunity. Who else can provide the comfort and security to a sicked loved one but a loving spouse?

just saw your last post.

Don't react to the nasty tone. Keep your original plan. Have to shut down the Taker for now. These things do not change overnight.