TMTS...

Is she still talking about moving out? If she is, that is the opportunity to talk to her about how she views things being between the two of you should she decide to leave the marriage...

Mrs. W

She's still planning it, but doesn't talk about it. I had asked her to not discuss the details of her moving plans because it just hurt too much. I know that she has talked to the mediator and I expect his call tomorrow. So this will come up sooner than later and I will have my opportunity.

Sorry if I sound thick here, but I don't know how I can talk to her about this yet continue on Plan A once she leaves. It just seems like the message will contradict itself. I'm hopping to continue with plan a until May, but if she leaves on Feb 1 then I don't know if I should go to it then or not.

I'm really on the fence here with how to handle this. One the one side I can continue Plan A for a while, but on the other hand if I don't go to plan B immediately when she moves out am I not sending mixed messages.

The funny thing is that no one knows what the intentions of the OM are. For all I know he is just playing with her and MR. W was right on the money about continuing this idea of moving in hope to lure him back.

I don't know what to do with this one. Help!!!

TMTS...

Your talk with her would be about your relationship should she choose to DIVORCE you-that in that situation you will NOT be "BFF's"-there will be no friendship because you are her HUSBAND and that is all you ever want to be to her-and obviously a coparent, but you don't have to be pals to do that...Your talk is not about what you will do should she choose to move out...Yes, you can continue to Plan A for a while after she moves out if you are up to it...You go to Plan B (without warning her-she does not need to know of Plan B) for YOU...It is not a reaction to something that she does, but rather a move that you make to protect YOU when you feel that your lovebank is getting to the dangerously low level...Plan B protects you and any remaining love that you have left for her...

Hope that makes things a bit clearer...if not, ask away! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Mrs. W

Hi Mrs. W

Thanks that does help. The link I wasn't making is that the point was about if the relationship gets to the point of divorce. So when she brings up the separation I ask her the question in terms of what she envisions our relationship should we proceed to the next step. If she comes back with what our relationship will be like once separated, does the following make sense....

I still love you and have hope for a future with you, and until does feelings change I intend to have as close to the same relationship we have now.

What do you think?

Thanks again.

You really want to stay on message as much as possible...The only time you talk about divorce is when you are diabusing her of the notion that you will remain friends if that is the path that SHE chooses...As for YOU, you ONLY do MARRIAGE, your attorney does divorce and you will not discuss divorce at all, ONLY marital reconcilliation...

I don't think you have a talk with her about how the separation will go-she gets no guarantees-guarantees and security are for MARRIED people who LIVE TOGETHER...Obviously, you want to tell her that you do not wish to separate...No need to define what happens if she chooses to separate, because really you don't know...You will take it one day at a time-accept uncertainty...Plan A whenever possible-you don't tell her that-she has no need to know of what "plan" you are in...

Mrs. W

And TMTS, if she leaves, she takes NOTHING from the family home...Personal stuff only...

Mrs. W

P.S. Yeah, I remember she bought a sofa...She'll have to come up with the $$$ to buy the rest of the things she will need!

Thanks Mr. and Mrs. W.

Understood, hide behind the lawyers/mediator when it comes to separation.

What I'm getting from this is to tell her just that bluntly... I do marriage, and I want to be married to my best friend. If you choose not to be my W, don't expect to be my friend.

Am I getting close? Sorry, I feel real stupid about this one.

She has no idea about the plan so when her 'friend' is gone from the picture it will be a difficult adjustment.

As for what she takes when she moves, absolutely, only personal effects and [email]cr@p[/email] I want to get rid of. Little porcelain cats and nick naks that just collect dust.

She can have one of the wedding pictures if she wants.

Mark...I think we have another little victory... only 9997 to go....

Last night I went our to the corner store to get munchies for the movie. I bought my WW a big aero bar. She didn't eat all of it and put what was left in the freezer. Well she felt like the rest of it, but it was gone. YDD can smell a chocolate bar from miles away. Anyhow, I get my shoes on and start heading out the door... she asks me where I'm going, so I told her... to get you a chocolate bar. She told me I didn’t need to but I ignored that and went anyway. When I got back she was waiting at the door for me, with a big smile of appreciation on her face and said... 'You didn't have to do that, thanks baby'

Could I actually be getting through the fog? She's been really nice for the last couple of days, watched movie together has a couple of nice chats about nothing important, played board games with the kids, doing laundry together. I can only hope.

Something I need to remind everybody of regarding my WW. As far as she is concerned we are separated now, she sleeps in a different bed, and my offer to come back to our bed was not taken. As much as she has been nice to me lately, she is living here as a renter.

I wanted to mention that in case it makes a difference as to how I should handle things. Right now I just work the plan.

TMTS,

You don't need to hide behind the lawyer, you just let him handle divorce if it comes to that. That will be what you are paying him for.

As for the mediator...That is a way to make things easy and circumvent your fighting for the marriage. If you cooperate in the dissolution of the marriage, then it becomes easier to end it. If you don't cooperate, it becomes more difficult to simply walk away.

If she hires a lawyer and files, you hire a better lawyer and fight in court. (I'm not a lawyer and do not play one on TV and I don't live in Canada so have no knowledge of the specifics of legal divorce proceedings in your neck of the woods.)



Until then, don't help end the marriage and even then you can drag your feet about as long as you are willing to do so. It's over when YOU say it's over...not before.

Maybe try asking her if the best of all possible outcomes wouldn't be for her to be in love with the father of her children?

You are still acting from the position that the marriage is over because she says it is over. You react to the possibility of her moving out because to you it means that she would really be better off with OM or at least she feels that to be true. Prove her wrong!

But if you keep making deposits, it becomes harder for her to walk away because she will still have feelings for you. By you making HER your priority you make it more difficult for her to step away from the support and meeting of ENs that you are providing.

It does NOT mean she will fall at your feet and beg forgiveness. It MIGHT mean that she will find a reason to stay another day...another week....another month...another year...

And when the affair burns out, which is statistically probable by a large margin, she will be even more likely to need a soft place to land...and that is with you.

Last year on CMT network there was a show hosted by Ty Murray who was 7 time PRCA all around champion, a champion bull rider and retired at the old age of 27 years old (though he missed two entire seasons due to injury and a good part of several more)

In this show Ty took celebrities including actors and athletes from various sports and taught them to ride bulls. One of the celbs was a football player, one an actor, one a fighter, one was from the series American Gladiator, one a rapper and one was from the reality TV show Survivor. None of them had ever ridden a bull before, and most had never even seen a bull up close. Even horses scared these guys and they were supposed to learn to ride a bull weighing between 1500 and 2300 pounds.

All were afraid of the bulls. One was so terrified that he was shaking so bad just being around the bulls that it was a sure bet that he would never be able to do it.

Some of them had to drop out because they got hurt...Serious stuff here...Broken ribs, punctured lung, separated shoulder, stomped leg...But some fought hard to remain even though injured. And in the end, they not only faced their fears and rode bulls, but did it at a PBR event before a crowd of several thousand people.

And the guy that was most afraid...the reality show goof ball actually rode his bull the required eight seconds and got an actual score!

This is scary stuff, dealing with the unknown and trying to work for something when the outcome is out of our control. But to the victor go the spoils.

Learn to ride the bull...you don't have to subdue it, just remain seated for eight seconds...or in this case until the alien releases its grip on your wife.



(That sound you hear is not that of slapping, but of applause for the effort. It is the sound of clapping and chanting your name as the bull tries in vain to throw you to the ground and stomp on your unconscious body...which might happen when you try to ride the bull...It is the sound of cheers for you because you are facing the unknown and uncertainty...It is the sound of encouragement to continue till the buzzer sounds.)

Cowboy up!

Mark

Edited to add: One of the things that seemed to make an impression on my then WW who was hellbent on ending our marriage as quickly as possible was that I said that we owned it to ourselves to try to save our marriage before ending it. I told her "We always have time to get a divorce but we only get one chance to save our marriage." She's got to be open and receptive for this to matter to her, but it made me feel better for having said it if nothing else.

See? The list is getting shorter... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Just remember that it only takes one "aweshit" (love buster) to wipe out ten thousand "attaboyz."

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Mark

Mark you continue to amaze me with your brilliance. I find myself copying and pasting a lot of your words of wisdom to read over and over again. Have you written a book yet?

TMTS- break out the boots and hat!

Thanks Mark.

I consulted my lawyer on this issue and she suggests I go the mediation route. The laws here would make it that even the worse lawyer could get a ruling where She gets the house, the kids, alimony and child support. The problem I run into is that she was the main care provider up until March, and unfortunately the courts here do not recognize adultery when it comes to the rulings. I'm really caught between a rock and a hard place on this one. So option two is mediation, of which I am letting her take the lead, if she wants this she'll have to push for it. I will do all I can to cause delays.

I have not given up yet. I plug at the plan and see where I can cause any kind of delay.

In that case, I would do the mediation, and get the best deal that you can. However, you can try to stall it as long as possible.

The candybar thing was GREAT! Keep on plugging along. And try to spend time with your duaghters - no one will ever be as good for them as you. Hopefully your wife is taking all of this in.

TMTS...

Dr. Harley advises against mediation because it will discount the effect the affair is having on your WW's judgement...it is the easy way out for a wayward and for the attorney...it is the way to make things "amicable" which is what your WW wants...Please avoid mediation if possible...Even if Canada doesn't recognize adultery as a cause for divorce, you can bet a judge can't completely discount it...It is like telling a jury to disregard something that they have heard in court-they can't really disregard it-no way to "unhear" something, KWIM???

Mrs. W

Thanks for your guidance folks, I'm really torn about this, because my biggest fear is loosing access to my girls. I might be better off talking to a different lawyer? Also I wonder if the LS is done through mediation, does that mean that if it gets to divorce stage the LS document is what sets the stage.

The other thing I would like comment on is on the status of the A. If the A is over (not by her choosing), does plan B even make sense? Does a court fight help my cause? I really confused as to what to do about this.

I need to think this through. I will go over Jennifer’s notes again and set up a consult with her within the next couple of days. I think it's time for a second call? Any comments?

The first session was strictly to get me on line with plan A, now I think I need to work on what direction to take regarding the LS... mediation or roll the dice on getting it to court. As well as when to go to Plan B if it gets to that.

I wouldn't get all riled up worrying about things that haven't happened yet. And ignore my advice and stick with what the Wonderings tell you.

Thanks Believer,

You're right, they are right... Mark and the Wonderings. They are all fantastic.

The very least I must do is make sure that what my Lawyer was telling me is accurate, then see what I can do to cause any kind of delay and difficulty in getting the LSA into place. I'll get Jennifer's help as well, especially on the mediation part. I don't like it but I will not risk being subjected to seeing my girls one every couple of weeks.

Mark - I saw that show you’re referring to, and I understand where you are coming from. I'm ridding that bull as hard as I can right now. This is just me trying to get my balance back after he changed directions.

Please pull out the 2x4's if you think I'm not getting it. Sometimes that's what us newbies need.

Mark, I think you are doing great! Like Believer said, though, try not to stress about things that have not happened yet. I realize you want to be prepared, but that's part of stalling. If something does happen that you need to deal with but are unprepared to do so, just walk away and take a whole lot of time to think about it, ya know!

I, for one, don't really think she is going anywhere. Somewhere down deep, she knows who takes care of her and who she can depend on to be there for her. That is what you are reinforcing right now. That is what you want her to remember as she prepares to "leave."

Oh Lela, you and Queenie have way to bring me to tears...
I pray that you are right. I am there for her and always have been. I understand that the fog is not letting her see that right now. I love her so much and don't want to loose her, but I so scared to make any move that will push her further away. I didn't do enough before so how can I expect her to trust that what I am doing now is genuine and will last. I drove her away and was too stupid and self absorbed to listen when she begged me to give her what she needed, now I'm trying to save what I can but screwing this up too. Sorry for the pity party right now but what you have all said is right. I'm not man enough to even deserve to keep her. I'm not fighting for my marriage, I'm doing what I have always done, I'm cowering in a corner reacting and trying to fight something I don't have the tools to do. I should probably just give up and give in and let her go find true happiness with a real man, not a semblance of one trapped in the emotional state of a teenager. Why did I let it get to this? I miss her touch so much!!