Okay, you know OM's name, start there...Do a background check on him TMTS-that will likely reveal A LOT...Try Intellius, www.intellius.com Then CALL him and ask him what his intentions with your wife are...Let him know that you are standing strong for your marriage, and this process will likely drag out for YEARS...

When are you going to purchase that recorder?

Mrs. W

Follow her to their house if you suspect she is going there. Does your neighbor know where they live...she seems to know a lot (how...thru your W?)? Can she get you the info third party? Sorry, but I'm all for the snooping stuff. You cannot sit by and do nothing but wonder. But remember, when confronted by your WW, get that innocent look and say "sorry." Don't fight about it.

The reason I have stated my opnions about your WW's foggy versus reality intentions is b/c her sitch seems very familiar. Mostly EA, short PA, player for a guy, things get serious-he runs, etc. From her perspective: she sees you as almost a parent figure right now-telling her what she can and cannot do, running the household, setting boundaries, etc while she want to be FREE and blah blah blah. That is what I mean by reality vs. fantasy. She probably thinks that she cannot rekindle the deep, romantic feelings for you b/c of what you represent to her (in her mind) right now. Unfortunately nothing you do will have an "obvious" affect...but it's all going on inside her head.

Maybe it's time for a few non-judgemental questions to be thrown her way...like, the famous "Wouldn't we all be happiest if you and I can find those feelings for each other again and be in love and together as a family? I want you to be in love with me again. I want to be romantic with you. I want us to be a married couple. I believe you can get those feelings back!" Maybe a little mathmatical deduction like you did for us here: "How will you support yourself and the girls on your salary? If you work two jobs you will see them very little...and have very little time to go out or be "free." Just little comments like that here and there to throw a wrench in her fantasy world without going on and on or trying to edjucate her. I don't know...

The thing that sticks out to me is that the mediator is expecting her call, but she hasn't called...wonder why...hmmmm.

I went down the questions list about three weeks ago, not long after talking to Jennifer. As far as the mediator goes, I think she's just so distracted with everything going on in her head that it just slips down the list. I hope that what you are insinuating is right and that she is having second thoughts.

I had asked the neighbor about what she knew, and she didn't have anything more than I do right now. Mind you I haven't spoken with her in a couple of weeks. Even just a phone #.

And the recorder purchase? And the intellius search? I will keep hounding you til you take ACTION TMTS...

Mrs. W

I just checked online and they have the recorder I'm looking for in stock. I'm going to get it today.

Intellus is useless in Canada. I've tried many differnt canadian site, evan one that I had to pay to subscribe and still found nothing. PI is just outside the range of my budget.

Thanks for staying on my case.

Neighbor is home. I'll go talk to her and see if she has anything new.

Bear in mind that the recording may be more for the benefit of gaining knowledge for you as opposed to providing evidence for any legal proceedings. In the US is it illegal in many states to record someone without their knowledge. I haven't run across any info that anyone has been tried for using a recorder, just wanted to give you a heads-up so that you can research the legalities of it for your region.

TMTS,
I know I've been quiet around here, but again it's just that I'm in no position to give advice. Just know I've been here with you all along. We all are, I mean look at everyone! I know it seems like this is the end, but it's far from it. I do know that much. Your Dday was 2 months ago and your wife is still home. I'm going on 7 months, my WW is out of the house and on to OM2, but I'm still fighting. I think you still have a lot going for you even if your wife DOES move out. You've done a great plan A so far. You can either continue it or be confident going into B because you've done a good job setting it up. Think about it.. your wife still has all the comforts of home right now and she still has you and the kids. She hasn't felt the emptiness of being out there alone yet. She hasn't paid a months rent, a car payment, utilities or groceries, etc.. She's just driving blindly in the fog right now, but has she even left the driveway? I think she's gonna get hit as soon as she pulls out and come running back to you. Just my opinion. Hang in there, man. Remember, we're in this together!

DM

Hi DM,

I've been keeping up with you as well. Same thing, no position to tell you anything helpful. Thanks for the support. Many tell me that it sounds like I've got a really good chance (Including Dr. Harley and Jennifer). I'm just a worrier, that's all. I worry about everything and overanalyze everything. Mark and Mrs. W. have done a great job keeping me in line, but I was talking to someone who doesn't hold back when it comes to the 2x4's.... My mom (FBS)
She tells it as it is and gets me right back on line.

Everybody here is great, and has been excellent.

For Mark, Mrs. W. Queenie, Lala and friends. I had a talk with my F about what Mark and I were discussing on-line. I am slowly making my way back to god, and he is very much proud of me for it and on full support. After I pick up the recorder, I'm going to get my own bible to sleep with Queenie. I was using my WWs. Funny thing happened. I read psalm 102 and a few other passages, then fell asleep clutching the bible in my right hand. I woke up 4 hrs later with it in the exact same position. I don’t know that there anything divine in that but it made me think.

Got the recorder...got to figure out how to hide it and get the microphone installed.

Forgot to mention the rest of my WWs text message about the apartment. She was asked if she was happy. Her answer was: Yes, but I'm scared, I hope I can do this. She is rattled.

From what I've been told by others that have gone through this, she is only beginning to be scared. She will also have to deal with the things that she will miss that she is not even thinking about... her garden for one. My support and back up on everything... she depended allot on me, and that's not my fault. She wants independence she'll have it. I wonder if Mr. OM will step up when needed.

As for myself, as you can tell I feel much better and confident today. The slapping I got about exposure from Mrs. W and the 2x4 from my M brought me back into line.

She mentioned that she spoke with the mediator, and that the next step was to come meet with us face to face. I told her that anytime would be good for me and left it at that. She got the message, you want this you do the leg work.

I've stated making my "house change" plans. I've got projects in mind. I'll need that to keep my mind off things.

I found out that under the circumstance of adultery it is possible to forgo the standard 1 year of LS before filling for D. I was thinking of brining it up when talking to the mediator. Not that I intend to follow through with it but just to shed a little more light on that fog. Please let me know your thoughts on that one.

TMTS,

I don't sleep with mine, but I have been known to fall asleep in church a few times...Fortunately it wasn't when I was doing the preaching.

Just a suggestion, when you get a new Bible, get one you can actually read. I use several translations and also dabble in Greek sometimes...just so I know what the original meaning was instead of letting someone else tell me what it means.

There are two basic types of translation. First is what is called a dynamic translation and that means that it attempts to preserve the meaning of a word or phrase as the most important aspect of translating it.

The second type is called a literal translation and these translators have endeavored to maintain a word for word translation of the original. The problem occurs when a phrase or idiom that means little in English is encountered because it just doesn't come across as well.

I use an example of the English insult of "Go soak your head!" which basically means "get lost!" But in German when you tell someone to "Go soak your head..." they wonder if they don't appear to have bathed properly.

The best translation is the one you can read, understand pretty well and can actually follow the ideas from.

An example of a dynamic translation is the New International Version or NIV. An example of the more literal version would be New King James or NKJV, which still maintains much of the character of the KJV of 1611 though it is from older though more recently discovered manuscripts.

A simple version to read in English as we use it today is the New Living Translation or NLT. This is very up to date, is a dynamic translation and is pretty easy to follow. It does soft sell a few things that I think require a little more "pop" to them, but I use it at times.

My everyday Bible, the one I most often quote from, is the NIV.

There are also study Bibles that include materials along with the scriptures that can direct you along some predetermined path. A lot of these are for specific groups, like the Recovery Bible, or the Men's Bible (which is pretty good at showing what God expects a husband to be in todays world) and a host of others with almost niche type focus.

Once you begin to read the Bible, a good practice would be to find a local Bible study group. I attend (though not as often as I should) a group that has been meeting together for over 20 years. Some of us have known each other longer than that and it helps to have a group of guys that will keep you accountable.

Another thing that helps a great deal is to find a church where the undiluted Word of God is preached. There are many churches that have become little more than social clubs that meet on Sunday mornings, but almost every city and town has at least one good one and some are even great, IMO. If you visit a few churches, and talk to the people and the leaders, you can find a place where you feel like you belong. Sometimes it takes a few tries to get it right.

If the leadership cannot be bothered with talking to a visitor or answering your questions, then say b'bye and look further.

Well, this is too much OT stuff for this forum, I think. I'd better quit while I'm ahead. Email me with any questions I can answer.

Mark

Look at you taking action! Good Man! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I am no expert on working the recorders-I've BEEN recorded but I have never recorded someone else...Have you checked out the Spying 101 thread? Good stuff in there! CLICK HERE

I'm not sure on the mediator stuff either...I'll see what Mr. W might have to say on that...

I completely agree with Mark about getting into a Bible Study...I did my first one last semester and I LOVED it...Our new semester begins January 16th and I am thoroughly looking forward to it! I am still using a Student Study Bible that my mom bought for me back in college. (NIV Version) I know that going to Bible study would do wonders for you personally TMTS...I hope you will look into it...

Oh and Mark, I see that you dabble IN Greek...Mr. W is Greek, so that means that I dabble WITH a Greek I guess! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Mrs. W

MrsW,

Would that be dabbling or dallying?

Mark (Who also dabbles in geek)

HAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAA!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Pretty much dabble, dally and whatever with him! It's still all Greek to me yanno! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Mrs. W

You know, when I was reading this something came to mind. You're right about seeing him, I don't think there has been any contact in at least a couple of weeks, even up to a month. But yes you are right, she is in "I am woman hear me roar mode" or she is waiting for me to screw up on the plan to be able to say "see he doesn't really care, he'll never change". I was talking to my M tonight and she's of the opinion that if she really wanted out she would have done so by now, so she's really struggling, scared, and not sure if this is what she really wants. Mother says that the best thing could be for her to move so she can see what life is like without me there. (I'd prefer it would happen like it did with you and the fog would start to lift just before making that leap). I’m not a control freak, but I analyze everything, and it will be tough to do with her out of the house. I’m lucky because I have both sides of the family supporting me. My ILs are completely beside themselves. FIL had a hard time even talking to me at first because he would start to tear up which then made me tear up. Even MIL who I’ve only seen her tear up when her parents died had a tear.

I'm not sure how to read her right now, this happy face could be all part of the fog. We talked about the mediator tonight (You would have been proud, she was expecting some sort of reaction, but I was cool as a cucumber) Then I mentioned that when it comes to who gets which car, I would prefer to keep the mini van (She agreed because the little Nissan will be cheaper to carry). I think she was taken back by the calm demeanor I talked to her about it. She didn't push for anymore separation talk, I just told her to set up the meeting for which ever time suites her schedule. What do you think about rattling her with this divorce thing with the mediator? I’m hoping that fear will lift the fog long enough for her to think about this rationally and see that this is savable.

After talking to Jennifer about Plan a she helped me write the following letter…

My dearest WW

A light bulb has gone on for me. In the last weeks I have been learning and understanding so much. I see things more clearly and now know my hearts desire, and direction that I would prefer. The change you have seen in me over the last few weeks is because I am looking ahead at recovering our marriage, and if you choose us I am 100% committed to protect you from any possible thoughtless behavior. I want to be the source of your happiness. I don’t think we are done and I hope we cannot only survive but thrive. I desire to live my life with you and rebuild a new marriage, I desire to raise our children together in the same household. I DESIRE YOU!

With all my love
BS

Now here’s the kicker. Wouldn’t a WS who is he!! bent on leaving just read this, laugh and throw it away? No, she put it back in the envelop, told me that it was sweet and stored it in her dresser. Does this make any sense? Mark sees it as a little victory… I’m not convinced.

The reason I'm having a hard time reading her is that even though we are spending time together and we are all pleasant to each other it feels like I'm hanging out with one of my buddies. I stroke her hair or throw a compliment her way every chance I get, but it's like I'm dealing with a manikin. Sometimes I'll get a smile but that's about it. It is really a strange feeling. We brought the girls bowling on New Years Eve and we sat together and had a drink. She couldn’t even look at me, I don’t think it’s out of any malice, I think it’s guilt and shame.

So right now she went over to have a drink with the neighbor… and brought her cell phone. I’ll get a hold of it later and see if she called anywhere or if anything came in. Don’t know if she’s deleting stuff from him. Either that or she’s hoping for that call to come in and it isn’t or Mr. W is right in saying that she may be continuing down the path in hopes to lure him back, basically saying, see I did leave him.

Thanks for asking Lala. I know allot of this I’ve said before but I feel better now that I got it out again. A little more rational compared to last night EH!

Taking the cell phone along is not a good sign.

But other than that, you are doing very well.

I think I would tell her that you're just so tired of all the discussions, and how about a night out, just having fun? See if she will go for that.

I think tell cell phone thing is wishful htinking on her part. Could it be whildrawl signs? I sure do hope so.

Could be withdrawal, but very suspicious. I really hope there is no contact. You are checking, right?

I get a hold of the phone every 2-3 days in the middle of the night and check for any # I don't recognize. No luck finding anything yet, but I agree that it is suspicious. Please keep in mind that is set on leaving and at no time has she even insinuated that it was over between them. What I don't know is if he's no longer interested and she's trying to hang on.

Go read Going to Plan B by Myfamilyilove on the board. It is a good one. And the responses are fantastic. It will help you prepare just in case she leaves. I am with your M as you know...she is scared, putting things off, not sure, etc, but if she does go...you really should Plan B her. You have been doing a GREAT Plan A, especially for the last few weeks, and she'll have a lot to think about if you go dark. I hope and pray for you every day that she wakes up, though, before that happens. You are stronger than you think...you have proven that to yourself (and all of us) in the past few weeks. You know what you want, you have told her what you want. That coupled with the level of support she gets from you should make Plan B a wake-up call that will rock her world. Plus, if she leaves, the part of you that anylizes everything, causes you to be stressed and anxious all the time, etc will ease, I think. You will find some peace. You will work on yourself. You will show yourself how strong you really are. And most imporatntly, you will preserve the love you still hold for her. If she leaves, she really (IMO) doesn't deserve any contact with you what-so-evah. You have done your part. Now, keep up the Plan A and let's see what she does.

PS- How is she able to save her whole paycheck in her little individual checking account? If she considers herself a "renter" ummm, renters PAY HALF!!! Why would you be footing all the bills while she SAVES UP TO LEAVE YOU!!!!