I would prepare very carefully for the mediator. Get a list together. You might call out for Mr. Wondering or one of the other experts. Mediation is expensive in the states - I paid $350. for one hour, and my ex didn't show.

My sis is an attorney, but does corporate stuff and not divorces. She warned me that a mediator's job is to get people to agree. They don't care what is fair, what is good for the children, but will encourage you to agree on anything.

I don't know how it works since my ex never kept the appointment.

But I would be ready with a list.

You will have to decide what you want, but I would be sure to give wifey a wake-up call. You might ask for custody of the kids, or half and half custody, and be armed with a schedule.

I would also request no OP around the children, and a right of first refusal that says if your wife cannot take them on one of her days, YOU will take them and she will pay for any babysitting or other costs if you had plans. I would make it very detailed so that she gets a good taste of what the future will be like.

Also I would ask for some things that you don't really care about, so you have room to give some things up in the spirit of cooperation.

Put a call out for some people who know more about mediation. Prepare and plan well.

(((((TMTS))))

Bravo honey.....you are an inspiration to to us all, especially me this morning. I need to learn the "be still" part, getting better at the expectations, still looking for advice on Boundaries and setting them without LB's...(come on vets help me out here....), but I guess you can't get on that horse and EXPECT to be an expert immediately.

I am really proud of your accomplishments this weekend and your ability to go with "flow" even when your plans didn't quite go the way you had planned. You get a GOLD STAR.....

Keep your chin up and when it starts to falter, you know where to come.....


Not2fun

ps...FEDEX man called this morning....his truck broke down....this is taking so long that kiddies and I will be naked soon....

B,

Thanks for the heads up. I will change my subject to get some responses on that matter. I do have ideas planned out, but no list as of yet. Custody is very touchy here, the best I can hope for and not loose everything is 50-50, but I have been waiting to get this date to set up another consultation with my lawyer (She actually call me Friday to see where we were at). So I will see her after our first mediation meeting as I do not intend to agree to anything with this initial meeting, and not until I've consulted with my lawyer. I will drag this out as long as I can. This will not be easy for either of us, but at least I'm going into it with a plan. On top of that I am experienced at negotiating contracts so I'm going to deal with it in the same manner.




Ok lady, telling me something like this will make me think twice about doing the laundry at all... all you'll be left with is your delicates... ROFL.

Hey, great job TMTS!!

And, I must admit, as a woman, seeing a man that is attentive to his children is a giant plus (that whole family commitment thing-- usually a pretty high EN for women!). So-- great job with the gingerbread house and paying attention to those DD. Sounds like you are a wonderful father, from what I've been reading and WW better wake up and realize that not all men are so attentive and loving to their children!

And on top of this, reading through your thread, it really seems you have grown as a person under plan A-- the entire point of plan A, you've become a better and stronger person. I can only hope that your wife's fog lifts soon. I think you've seen glimpses of fog lifting- but in those early stages, the fog is all too quick to come back and envelope you, from my experience. But, it is a start-- and progress.

I must say the first time the fog REALLY lifted for me was when I DID move out of the house. The day I moved out-- that night I came back home and crawled into bed with my H. Oh-- and I sat on the floor of my new apartment and BAWLED. In front of my parents-- and I don't cry in front of my parents (see above comments about me not being close with them).

Actually being out of my house was an ENORMOUS smack with reality. I can't say that that completely lifted my fog right then and there-- it didn't, but it is a huge smack in the face.

I hope things continue to go well for you. I'm really rooting for you and keeping you in my prayers. I, like you, am in the process of re-discovering faith (albeit, alone...). Sometimes it feels like that is about all you have to hang onto during this!

Good luck, and you'll be in my thoughts and prayers! Have a great rest of your day!

RIM

Good job TMTS...and WOW on the LONG post by Believer! (hehehe) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Mr. W will probably weigh in on this to give you his advice, but I totoally agree with Believer. This is the perfect setting to give her a eye-opener on the "let's be friends" junk if she leaves!

Good luck to you on Thursday...you have done an awesome Plan A, and if Plan B comes, you can be confident that she will have a lot to think about!! Way to go buddy!!!

Hi all,

Thanks for the vote of confidence. I've got bad news though... I'm a little down after the Lowes visit. Everything went great. It's just and internal down swing in my head and heart. It this whole friendship your my best buddy thing.

You guys have been so encouraging in the last few days, but as you can see I'm still struggling at times. I still get caught up in this hope and expectations thing once in a while and I question if any of this is making a difference (Her poker face is pretty good too). I just don't see any internal struggles with her, not that she is showing anyway, but she lit right up when the mediator called this morning (I think that's what turned my mood).

I was also thinking of the plight that our buddy DM is going through. I don't know if I could handle a second OM. And I know that this is what she has in her mind... that if it doesn't work with OM she'll start dating. (I'm pulling and praying for you.)

RIM - Thanks for the boost. I feel kind of sick to my stomach right now thinking about what you said. The gingerbread house thing is the normal kind of thing I do with them. I am a good feather, but that doesn't seem to matter to her. The only thing that seems to have any bearing in her decision is this whole affection/romance showing care for the little things. Granted I did not do well there, but there should be more to her falling out of love with me than that. Rim, Lala - she's asked me before if you can love two people at the same time? What do you think of that? It’s only after I told her that I did not that she came up with the: I love you like a best friend, line.

I don't know guys, I think I'm just a little emotionally drained from this weekend and then the mediator call brought up thoughts of this getting closer to reality. I'm ok, just a little down. After supper we're going to play guitar hero some more so that is good.

Thanks for all your support and encouragement. Unfortunately I don't feel my Plan A is as strong as many of you do, and I am low on hope that she will come out of it and want to reconcile. See not that line between hope and expectations is really thin, and it doesn't change the fact that you're still on that roller coaster. I'm just hitting the bottom of a hill right now, that's all.

Lala - I hope and pray that you and RIM are right about this becoming much more real for her and that it helps lift the fog, especially as it becomes more real to her. My fear right now is this dating idea if it doesn't work out with OM. I'm not sure I agree that I have seen glimpses of fog lift, I wonder if in some of my last posts I was just doing allot of wishful thinking.

The other thing that creped into my mind this afternoon is the fear of loneliness and I don’t know if I'll be able to handle it.
How did it get to this? Why was I so stubborn about listening to her when she begged to me stop smoking pot, and show her more attention? The sense I get is that her heart has completely moved on and so has she.

Sorry for the whining there folks, just feeling a little down and needed to get this down.

Hey TMTS,

This is Bella5967.... had to change my name sorry about your low spirits but from the sounds of it you are my plan A hero. You are doing great and no matter what you can feel that you are doing everything possible. I am pulling for you.

tmts-

Keep your head up, chief! I know how you feel, though. WW keeps telling me that her heart has moved on and that she doesn't want the M to recover. It's tough to hear, but we have to hold on to our hope knowing that we are doing the right thing for our family and so that in the event that it doesn't work out the way we want it to, we'll know that we did everything possible to make it work. No regrets!

Thanks 14,

I know well be ok, it's just one of them day ya-know. I'm getting on the treadmill after supper to work some of this off that usually does the trick.

TMTS,
Too late. I already read your post. It seems like we got on the same ride today. We are definitely in this together, so hang in there too. Trust me when I say you still have a lot going for you. Hey, you even have a treadmill!

DM

TMTS, why are you agreeing to meet with a mediator if divorce or a LS is not what you want? IMHO, I would not make it easy for her to get her way. I guess I don't understand why you're willing to negotiate on this.

Hey TMTS--

OK-- so in terms of whether or not she's having any "internal struggles". I can almost guarantee she is. And if she isn't yet, she will as soon as it becomes more "real" to her. BUT-- I caution you-- DO NOT LOOK FOR OUTWARD SIGNS OF IT. I suck at poker, and I developed the world's best poker face through this.

This is STILL something that me and hubby are struggling with now. Ask him-- he'll tell you "everything he did for me over the past year never mattered to me"-- but the thing is, it DID. I just NEVER SHOWED IT. He STILL doesn't believe that those things meant ANYTHING to me... but I can sit here and rattle off lists of things he did for me that meant the world to me. I JUST DIDN'T SHOW IT-- at all. So, don't expect ANY outward signs of a internal struggle. (again, at least from my experience).

Another part of this I think is that it isn't "real" for her yet, like you pointed out. She's still in the comforts of home, and you are treating her like gold (even though she doesn't deserve it currently!). So-- the "reality" of it hasn't set in. It may be when she leaves that it strikes her then-- like it did me. Its all too easy to write everything off and idealize things, and think that the grass is greener on the other side of the fence while you are still at home being pampered by the world's best husband.

So-- DON'T BE DISCOURAGED! Keep going. You are getting through to her, but DON'T EXPECT TO SEE ANY SIGNS OF IT. I wish you could ask my husband all the things he did for me-- that I clearly didn't show that I cared about at all-- but I did. They DID mean something to me. And in hindsight, now, they mean even MORE that he did those for me after what I put him through. But at the time, they did too-- I guess I just didn't show it at all, which may be what you are going through.

And in terms of loving two people at once.... I think that should be added onto the typical WS spewings. I don't think I ever said that to my H, but it was something that crossed my mind. Just more WS babble. Ignore it. I'm sure maybe Orchid could help you come up wtih some good reverse babble for that one. Hmmm.,. maybe, "No, I don't think I've ever loved two people at once, its just always been you" How's that for adding a little guilt in for that question?

Oh-- and another thing-- I guess my hubby has been reading along with my thread on MB. I don't think he's going to get his own name and post, but at least reading along with my thread is a start. He made some comment about me posting all the time about "dealing with the world's most difficult husband". Haha. So, I guess if he reads along there, that's something.

Hang in there, keep your chin up. I can't advise you on the mediator thing, I truthfully never tried anything like that. I never made any steps towards divorce myself, in hind sight I think because I never really wanted to lose my H. He did threaten me a few times with D... but I always talked him out of it. Maybe it was just a gut feeling I should have listened to more... (ugh). But-- I also don't think that this means you are doomed. I think she's still not living in reality, and still in a heavy fog.

Cheer up. You've done great this weekend! Keep fighting. Don't give up now. Now is the critical time period, so that when she does leave, reality hits her like a ton of bricks-- and she'll realize what she left behind.

RIM

Hi folks,

PM - I'm in an area that if I don't, the chances are that she keeps the house, gets custody of the kids and I pay for it all. I'm only doing this under the advice of my L. I mentioned mediation to Jennifer last week and she didn't think it was a bad idea in my case and because of where I am. I don't like, don't want it, and intend to drag it out as long as possible. She first talked to a mediator about a month and a half ago, and we are only here now. She has no clue that the mediator will not give her any kind of legal advice so that will create delays as well. The only thing that I can talk about in mediation is that in the case of adultery the standard one year wait time from LSA to divorce is waived. Now I have no intention of following up on this, but I wonder if mentioning that I can go to D right away might shock her a little. Just to make her think a little. Now after this initial meeting I will consult with my L again and take my sweet time. I suspect that by then she'll know she needs to retain a L which will also take time. Please comment on this folks, all comments are appreciated.

I feel a little better now, we just finished playing guitar hero for one and a half hours and got a hug and a kiss on the cheek and a hug, we had a good time.

RIM - Your post is helpful and I can only hope that some of this is sinking in. I'm nowhere near giving up, was just on a little downer. In front of her it was poker face.

The thing is that she doesn't talk about what she doing; it's just that best friend roommate act that is throwing me off a little.

Thanks for your support.

TMTS i need to take some poker lessons from you.... i thought i had a good one tonight but i blew it at the end..... i'll have to keep reading and following your thread to get ideas

Okay, this makes sense then. So is the mediation for the purpose of drafting the terms of the LSA?

hey TMTS,

Glad to hear you came out of your funk...it took me 2 days. I tried updating my thread, but then the computer would funk on me and I would get so frusterated I would give up. Anyway, good job on the weekend, and don;t worry about the mediator thing too much. You don;t want it to get you so down, it cripples your Plan A...

I'll be praying for you this week...

not2fun

PM - Yes, it is to discuss the terms of LSA. What do you think about dropping the D word for effect? I am in Plan A and will keep going until about 2-3 weeks after she moves out. (Unless of course we have fog lift before that).

Not - Thanks for the prayers, how are things at your end? You didn't call him now did you? Did you do any laundry or are you and the kids running around naked. ROFLMAO!!!

LF4 - Check your thread, I left you a note.

TMTS,

Sorry you're having a down night. Remember, your doing all you can to give your marriage the best possible chance to recover. The rest of this situation is out of your control. I know how difficult this is, but I have seen tremendous growth from you since you began posting here. It's not over yet. There is still plenty of time for your DW to realize the mistake she is making. The only thing you can control is you. For now, I think you should just stick to Plan A until you can no longer take the roller coaster ride. Then, you'll have to decide how you want to proceed. From the posts I've seen from you, I'm sure you will find happiness again, however this situation plays out. You have learned to be a great husband by reading here and should your DW not come to her senses in time, you will undoubtedly make someone a great husband in the future. Only you can decide when you've had enough.

As for the LSA, I'm really not sure what to tell you to do. Maybe it's time for you to through down the gauntlet and tell her exactly how you feel. That if she goes through with this, there won't be any friendship because it will be just to painful for you. Should she go through with D, she will be on her own. If she runs into babysitting issues, money issues, or parenting issues they will be here problem not yours because your going to do what is best for you and move on with your life. You could say that this isn't what you want. That you still love her and want to build a better marriage for the both of you, but you can not do it alone. I know doing this is very scary. Only you can decide if you have reached that point. Hang in there buddy!

Want2Stay

Well good evening sir,

Thanks for the vote of confidence. I feel better now. That's one thing that is nice with a little time under my belt, when I do get down I get out of it in a matter of hours not days, knowing that one day it will just be a sad thought here and there. As for how I feel I laid it all out for her and will reiterate it in writing this week before the mediator's visit. You are right though, the one issue that has not been approached is this idea that we will be friends. I was thinking of using the mediation session to bring that one up because we'll already be in that mode.

The plan right now is to keep going with Plan A until the move, then move into Plan B a few weeks later. Jennifer was telling me that because Plan A is so hard on the emotions that doing it after she has left would affect my mental health.

Then after that we live and let live, and if she decide to talk about reconciliation then she'll know what needs to be done. And if not then the D ball will be in my court. The only thing that concerns me is if the A ends and she decides to date other men. I don't know if I could see that and still be willing to wait for her. But we'll cross that bridge if we ever get to it.

Thanks for checking in man!!! Much appreciated.

TMTS,

I don't see you posting those qualities you like about yourself. Keep them coming dude. It's important for you. It keeps the focus on you and YOU becoming the VERY BEST you for you.

Remember, those nasty little expectations will KILL US if we aren't careful. It's like a scab that we keep picking at. I read some last night on how you are doing, but I didn't get up early enough to post.

I'm thinking about ya and praying for you. You really are doing amazing under the circumstances. Keep you FAITH, G-d will turn this into something good.

I heard this saying last night.

Man Plans
G-d laughs

We don't know the plan. We only need to TRUST and do the WORK. Not for her, but for YOU.