Well you know that Plan A is usually only preparation for Plan B. It doesn't usually bring the affair partner out of their fog.

So you will need to start thinking about Plan B. Is she planning to take the children?

Hey Believer,

I have a couple of questions...Any chance of you popping over to my thread if you have a moment?

Oh, man. I cannot believe she did it. Her reality is so distorted right now. I still stand behind what I said last night, though. Pull yourself back up (this may take a day or two) and try to bring yourself to romance her a little over the next couple weeks and give her something to really remember when she's gone.

I just don't know what to say. I was really hoping she would snap out of it b4 she left, but honestly, you have done such a great job with Plan A. You have done the best job you could. Plan B in 85% of cases is pretty staggering stats, though. Don't lose hope. There's still hope!


(((((((TMTS)))))))

There is ALWAYS HOPE WHERE THERE IS FAITH.

Always....

Agree with the above,

It's the homestretch of Plan A. Despite the knocks it's important to finish up strong.

Picture the coolest guy you remember in High School/College or, maybe more accurately, how cool you were and how you acted when you two first dated and be that guy.

She's making the biggest mistake of her life and risking losing out on a great guy. YOU may want to act as though you are more concerned about her not being OK because she's, perhaps, losing you.

Jump outta bed with a snap in your step. Whistle in the shower. Play and laugh with your children. Go out...invite her along and don't fret if she fails to go. Indicate that if it's all ending WE (the marital WE) should, at least, go out with a bang, if nothing else, let's do it for the kids so when they look back at this period of time they won't ONLY recall acrimony and sadness.

Whatever it takes to manipulate yourself some time to Plan A her.

Also...don't talk divorce and keep separation detail talk to a minimum. In fact, don't TALK separation. Make her write it down and anything that must be discuss must be done by email. That way you are slightly protecting yourself by DOCUMENTING IT for custody and divorce purposes, if you get there while keeping yourself insulated from having to discuss it face to face. YOU can be much more deliberate and thoughtful with your email responses remembering to make nearly everything about the kid's best interests whereas SHE is unlikely to be that careful.

Good luck,
Mr. Wondering

((((((((((TMTS))))))))))...Just wanted you to know that I read this and I'm praying for you...You are a good man and you are going to be okay no matter what!!! Stay the course and finish your Plan A standing strong like the hero that you are!

Mrs. W

Mr. W, what a great idea about the in writing stuff.....

So smart..

How are you doing TMTS... How's that drink. You know what my favorites were.... Margaritas, Baileys, Kahlua and Everclear....

But my true drug of choice....p.t

*GULP* I have stories 'bout dat stuff! *grimace* It's not even legal here! But I grew up down South where it is! Queenie, you are a gal after my own heart! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Mrs. W

Wow! You did need a hug!

{{{{{TMTS}}}}}

I promise you this. It will get easier. It will get better. You will find strength that you never thought you had. You will find little moments of joy as you come to realize that you'll be o.k. And not just o.k. The saying "whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger" is true. You will be more emotionally mature and that will serve you well in the future.

Try to take a little time for yourself and allow yourself to grieve. Then, busy your mind with how you're going to pull off your plan B. Plan B will put you on the final path to success in YOUR life with or without her.

Consider yourself fortunate that you were able to plan A her and still can.

Live the next few weeks with confidence in yourself that you will make it through this, because you will. Force yourself to eat, to sleep and to plan A. You will get rest and peace in Plan B.

Time to dig deep and ask for the strength one more time.

Mrs. W, back in my drinking and using days, H and I would play this game called PASS OUT. I WON almost all the time.

I didn't drink it straight very often... Kool Aid was a good mixer as a college student.


I can even get a glimpse of this and believe it for myself, and I KNOW TMTS will too. Because his Strength is so much more than me.

YOU CAN DO THIS TMTS... WE ARE ALL PULLING FOR YOU.

TMTS,

I'm so sorry to hear about this. I have to agree with what everyone else is saying to you. Stick with plan a for the next couple of weeks as best you can. We've already determined that your DW is in for a HUGE dose of reality once she is gone. I'm pretty sure in here foggy thinking, that if she moves out then the OM will come to be with her. I don't believe that for a second though. He's already proven he's a louse and a player and I would be shocked to death if he hasn't already moved on. Just from what you learned from the neighbor the other day is pretty much proof of that. Plus with as good as you have been with snooping I think you would have more concrete evidence if that wasn't the case.

I agree with Mr. W that you should try to be as happy as possible at least to her and stick with plan a. The key here is to meet as many of her EN's as you can over the next couple of weeks. This way when she moves to the apartment and you move to plan b and stop meeting all her EN's she will miss you and what you have to offer. The OM has already proven he's not going to meet any of her EN's so she will get lonely very quickly. Throw in all the stress and problems this is going to cause her and reality will hit her like a sledgehammer. She will lose the fantasy of this great new life she has envisioned and her world will come crumbling down around her.

I know this is a very difficult time for you. This is something that I have never brought up in all this A talk but I think you could really use the reassurance now. My sister and BIL were actually D'd over an A. You know what happened? My BIL realized what an A$$ he had been and 1 year later they were remarried and are still happily married today 8 years later. So don't lose hope TMTS. You may have lost this battle, but the fight to win back marriage is not over yet. This is all still part of the process. You have a wonderful group of people here to support you. Hang in there and let me know if there is anything you need. Be strong my friend.....

Want2Stay

Let me know what you think. I will try to make this as accurate as possible.
After she told me and kind of went into shock we started talking and this is where I wonder if my Plan unraveled. Know right off the bat that the whole talk was very calm, sweet and with allot of tears from both of us.

WW- Are you ok,
Me- No, this tears my heart in two. (I was still calm, just staring at the ground).
WW- I'm sorry.
Me- Yes so am I. (Long pause)
Me- If only I had listened.
WW- About the pot?
Me- That and when you were looking for more attention.
WW- I didn't feel like you wanted to give me you heart.
Me- You're right, I didn't know how. I kept the wall up for so long, I was afraid to let it come down by fear of getting hurt. I never dreamed that it would ever work the other way too.
WW- I always wanted that from you, and I know you love me, but never felt like you were completely giving me your heart.
ME- You're right, after F left I put up that wall and made sure that there was a little part of it that I could pull back and protect.
Me- This experience has helped me to open up as I have finally dealt with the pain of my F's A, and been more open with DDs.
WW- I hope it helped.
Me - It did.
WW- I'm sorry for doing this to you.
ME- So am I, as I now know so much more on how to nurture a relationship and that you cannot be taken for granted as being there if I wont work on it with you. I have learned allot in the last few months on where I have worked on and continue to work on how to nurture relationships. I have not given up on hope that you will one day have a change of heart and give me another chance to prove this to you. I understand that it is a life long commitment to change and learn and implement behaviors to nurture our love for each other. (Stoking her face with the back of my fingers).
Me- I have taken for granted what was right in front of me and substituted it for pot. Now I long for your touch again (She was stoking my arm, actually brushing the hair on my arm with her fingers). I told her on much I liked it when she did that. I told her how beautiful I though she was and that I cherished (Thanks Mrs.W.) her beauty and her heart. (Put my hand on her heart. (She started crying)
WW- you haven't told me I beautiful before, it was always cute.
Me- Fear, fear of saying what I actually felt.
WW- I don't ever remember you telling me you loved my heart.
Me- Fear. And I'm tired of having fear control my life. I have an admission to make to you that you will think is not really me. I have been reading the bible with some guidance, and this has helped me in dealing with fear. (She was very much surprised by this).
WW- So do you still not believe in lift after death.
Me- No, I understand more now.
WW- It hurt that you though of this as being ridiculous, because I always held on to this as a truth and that my grandparents were looking down on me.
Me- Well I have been praying to my GM (This is when I stated to weep) that she look over me, you and the girls.
So yes I would say that I believe in life after death.
Me- there is so much I did not appreciate about you (We were still rubbing hands), one is your touch, I always loved it when you touched me, when you would rub my head at night to help me sleep.
WW- But that was never enough, you needed the pot.
Me- Yea I know.
(We both started sobbing, and she stood up and we gave each other a real strong hug.)
Me- This is all I need or would ever need. I miss it so much now.
(We hugged for about 2 mins. real hard, rubbing each other real lovingly))
(Stroked her hair and told her how beautiful she is, and her heart is.)
Me- I fell in love with your heart first, just in the way you where with my Ms cats when we were first dating told me you had a kind heart, and when you decided to go into animal heath care it confirmed that I was right, and the I always love her for this.
WW- Crying - You never told me that before.
Me- Fear.
Me- Know that I love you and d that I still hold on to hope that one day you will have a change of heart and give me another chance to show you that I can be the source of your happiness. I have done allot of studying on how to properly nurture a loving relationship and commit to you that I need to make these changes for my own well being.
WW- I'm scared that this would not be you, that we talked about this in the past and it didn’t last very long.
ME- Your right and there in no excuse. But it had not really hit until this came up. This made it very real that I was or had lost you. I want to make you the most important person in my lift for life and the study and learning I have been doing is all in preparation for the real work which will be to implement and show that these changes are real.
WW- Just listening with a tear in her eye.
Me- I do have bad news though. Should you decide to come back, know that we will be spending 15-25 hours of time like this per week. She smiled. (I explained some more about meeting her needs).

WW- Are you going to bring the DDs somewhere for when I move.
Me- Yes I'm thinking of bringing them to my parents.
WW- Ok, I wouldn’t want them to see this, but I
Ill be there when you get back to give you my key.
Me- Ok.

Well that was it, I'm sure I didn't get all of it but that was the majority. There were no LBs, and allot of touching and hair stroking and face stroking. I just think I may have come off as weak by crying, especially when she hugged me ,because she was standing and had my head in her chest, where I was really sobbing then (I couldn't help it there, I was holding on to her and didn't want to let go).

I feel better now after having my meds, a drink and getting down on a post. I was too focused on what and how I would say things that I can't comment on if there may have been a crack in the fog.

I'm just concerned about having come off too weak and needy.

Comments, 2x4's please!

P.S. in the time I took to write this, I see ther are all kinds of posts. I will go read them and comment. Thanks
P.P.S. This is one that will make W2S proud.

W2S,

You are so right about this. NEVER LOSE HOPE as long as you KEEP FAITH in G-D. Or at least let G-D speak to you, TMTS. He WILL GUIDE you.

When you speak your TRUTH with LOVE, there is nothing bad that can come of it. So what if you cried...this is a heartbreaking issue. If it wasn't, why would you be fighting so hard? You gave her your truth, TMTS. There will be no 2x4's for that! I don't see it as weak and needy at all. There was no begging or pleading, only honesty and love.

With that said-do what Mr. W and my DH said starting tomorrow morning!

Oh yes... I installing the solid rocket booster right now and going to launch Plan A to new highs tomorrow morning.
Pancake Breakfast and then pot roast for supper. Laundry all done folded and put away. I got to go to Sam's club tomorrow, so I will pick up flowers as well as cheesecake (her favorite). I will do all I can to get touches and conversation in every chance I get. We're in the Plan A playoffs now and I intend to win the cup!

Dang TMTS! You made me bring out the friggin tissues.....lol....no kidding!

Dude. You've got nothing to worry about. Keep making the changes you need to make and I'm willing to bet she'll be back before you know it based on that conversation. If not, then she's got me fooled. I think she just needs time to see if the changes are real. I know you want them to be.

You're gonna be o.k.

I'm glad you think it was good. It was from the heartwith a focus on the Plan. There were more details about the things that I'm working on and these things are only studying and learning, and that I hope she gives me the chance to put them to practice. Also told her about a call to the Harley's where Dr. made it vary clear off air that there is no point of doing any of this unless you are willing to make the changes stick for life. I think she actually cried more than I did.
It's been a very emotional and teary night (Did you read Lela’s post? I was bawling)

No 2x4s for that man...THAT was straight from the heart...THAT was GREAT stuff...THAT was a bonding moment that she will NEVER forget...THAT will be the BRIGHTEST of lights from the lighthouse that will shine during your Plan B...You done good! ((((((((((TMTS))))))))))

I am VERY proud of you...I am SO moved by hearing about your change of heart towards God...Knee-Mail coming your way!

Mrs. W

P.S. LOVE, LOVE, LOVE that you worked in the word "cherish"...Use it as often as possible before Plan B...

You did great. Sometimes I forget to add...when you get the RIGHT moment...like tonight...you HAVE TO BE EMOTIONAL. Especially, when that is one of the complaints she has about you previously. Just has to be natural and not needy (i.e. - you stated your changes and didn't say things like "I'll change if you give me another chance")

I think it's a breakthrough conversation.

BUT...NOW...EXPECT A PULL BACK.

Rollercoaster.

Tomorrow she is likely to be a beaaaatch. Part of it is pulling back so as to manipulate you to stop with trying to change her inteneded course of action, part is to prevent further hurting of you by giving you false hope, and part is to test your stated words and see if you actions meet your words.

Another thought...when she challenges you on the pot thing and how you've failed before...not lived up to the promise to quit...yada, yada, yada. Perhaps next time you'll be able to use this strategy.

"Honey, this situation has caused a lot of things. I don't like it but one benefit of it is that it has forced me to grow up. I CAN quit now. It (pot) means NOTHING to me now. When I made those empty promises to you and others previously I was a boy...NOW...I am a man. The MAN you always wanted and wished I'd be."

I don't know if you are seeking help with quiting pot or not...but doing so MAY be a way to demonstrate your intent with ACTIONS. She's indicating she doesn't trust your word thus backing your words up may support your case. This is not to mention that quitting a drug you are addicted to without addressing the underlying issues is NOT the best way to do it. In AA, you'd be labelled a dry drunk and ticking time bomb waiting to go off at the first sign of SERIOUS temptation. Our minister did a 12 step program himself to address his issues with PRIDE. You could certainly benefit from one at a local church to assist you with dealing with your underlying issues while kicking your habitual pot habit.

While your at it...you'll also be reinforcing your newly stated religious convictions by going to a church to attend such meetings. Two birds...one stone.

I'm quite encouraged with the conversation. DON'T try to initiate another one. See how she opened up when you let her initiate it and freely continue it...naturally. I'd say the timing will not be right again for a couple days.

Last thought...if you end up talking divorce or separation with her you are likely to have tonights conversation thrown in your face. "See you haven't really changed...you are vindictive, mean, controlling, etc.". Don't buy it. State clearly..."I have done nothing but assure you that I remain willing and able to work on this marriage and be the man you, and now I, always wanted me to be....NOTHING, has changed including, unfortunately, your intention to walk out on this family". Or something to that effect. You turn the comment back on her. It's kind of a "when you point a finger at me...you've got 3 pointing back at yourself".

Good night and good luck...you silly canuck. LOL

Mr. Wondering

Yes I read her post and yes it has been an emotional evening and yes I cried.

Thank God for Puffs Plus! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Now remember, no R talk. Just make the pancakes and do your thang.

Dang. Now I'm hungry. I better go to bed.

Night all.