Sorry for the TJ

RIM, you may think you know, but you DON'T know TRULY.

I am NO EXPERT, but you and I are walking through a great deal of the same feelings, well I might be a few months ahead of you in the process.

I would encourage you to go back and read the last two days of my thread and what I am coming to understand.

I bet you can even find me posting that I KNOW WHAT HE IS THINKING. OR I KNOW HIM A BETTER THAN ANYONE ELSE. That maybe true and you and I might have a better understanding of how WH process and act on information, but WE DON'T TRULY KNOW. Only G-d does.

So let G-d have him and you concentrate on yourself. Please know I am really just coming to truly understand this and totally get how hard it is. I really do, but your personal recovery depends on learning so many things that may be hard for you to grasp and implement.

I hope that makes sense.

TMTS, you are quiet this morning. You ok?

AMEN, SKINSGAL!!!

TMTS, you are sounding a little down today...I noticed it, too. Anything we can do?

TMTS,

Just wanted drop by and see how your doing. I think the conversations you had with your DW were a step in the right direction. I would say that in those talks you got a glimpse of a fog lift even if it was brief. Don't over analyze what you say in these types of talks. As long as what you say comes from the heart and she can sense the sincerity of what you are saying they will have a HUGE impact on her. Just one quick question though. Why haven't you shared any of the new you with her before the other night? I think it would go along way to draw attention to the changes that you have made to become a better husband.
Let me know if you need anything.

Want2Stay

P.S. Sorry, I missed you yesterday. I only got 4 hours of sleep and crashed during the football game too. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Almost always the case, I think. Most WS are unhappy and see the BS as the source of that unhappiness.

I have more thoughts on this, but no time right now. Maybe later???

Mark

Mark wow that is so familar

Three months ago I was at my copy machine at work and I KNOW G-d was speaking to me that day. And this is what he SAID.

My WH is completely miserable in his own life and blaming me and our M. My job wasn't to fix it as I have tried our whole life to do.

And that's when the beginning surrender of this journey began. I KNOW that my WH is unhappy, but I can't control it, make it better or fix it. That is his journey with G-d. I can just have FAITH and LOVE him if and when G-d has it planned for him to COME HOME.

Hey TMTS,

How do you change a thread name, like you have been doing?

skinsgal-

You go to the 1st post of your thread, click "Edit", and change the title.

I'll take a stab at the "logic" of the wayward here...

In an attempt to divert the guilt and shame, and avoid all the hard work that a wayward intrinsically knows they will be faced with upon accepting the reality of what they (we) have done, they look at the person they are married to as a scapegoat. We re-write history from before the A and convince ourselves (mostly subconsciously, although some do it consciously) that the M was doomed from either the beginning, or the subsequent years following their wedding day. This is actually easy to do, because ALL M's have their problems. Everyone has flaws, and the wayward focuses on the faults of the betrayed to justify the way they are currently feeling and for the A itself.

The other aspect is the OP. The wayward sees them as their "soulmate" and tells themselves that "everyone deserves to be happy." Therefore, no matter how wrong they know the A is deep down inside, they go with the new age vibe that you must "follow your feelings." They see D all around them and convince themselves that it is the norm. They see other children who have been through a D and say "They are doing just fine," even though those children probably are NOT doing just fine. (Except in the cases where the married home was abusive or otherwise unsafe, etc. In those cases, anyone is better off getting themselves and their children away from an abuser, and with counceling the children may end up OK.) The wayward can convince themselves of this due to the fact that they are observing from a distance. They do not actively seek to dig deeper and discover that the children of D, especially ones with infidelity as the cause, have an extremely difficult time with anxiety, guilt (why weren't we enough), and as MelodyLane talks about, understanding right from wrong if they are not told the truth about the D. They internalize their pain most of the time, so it is difficult to see what they are going through. The wayward truly believes that "if the children know they are loved by both parents, and my BS and I get along for the children's sake, they will be just fine." To dig deeper for the truth about the affect of D on children would be to vaporize their fantasy world in a very big way. Waywards are terrible parents, even if they were great parents before the A.

It is a very scary state of mind for everyone involved. Anything the BS does to try to convince the wayward that what they are doing is wrong, is met with hostility and the attitude that the BS is trying to "punish" them for their wrongdoings.

Unfortunately, for most waywards, THAT is the state of existance they remain in, even if the M is salvaged to the point of somewhat peaceful co-existance. It is then the feeling of the wayward that "I have done eveything I can...I have stopped the A, I have said I am sorry a thousand times, I have placated you with flowers and cards, and now you just need to be a strong enough person to get over it!" If the BS does not buy into this theory (like W2S) then there is an extended period of time where the WS and BS go round and round in circles, with the BS knowing they deserve more than to be placated, and the WS viewing any attempt at real recovery (talking about the A in full detail, living their lives as an open book, etc) as punishment or as their BS being insecure or needy. Until the WS fully realizes the extent of their damage and faces their greatest moment of selfishness and devastion to their marriage partner, this will be the continued state of existance.

If and when the WS finally comes to the place where they can humble themselves and seek guidance as to the extent of their damage, and change their perspective about the A and the M, they can expect a period of depression. It is truly devastating to honestly realize what I have done (switching to first person to speak from experience). The BS can actually benefit from this, because it offers a time of re-building the love they have for each other. The BS can finally SEE and ACTUALIZE the remorse of the wayward and seek to comfort them, even as they heal themselves. Once this epiphany is achieved, the wayward will be willing and eager to learn all they can of how to comfort their BS and therefore learn and grow together. They can re-connect on a deeply emotional level, fill each other's ENs joyfully and thus create a loving environment where true romantic love can blossom.

An A is never a "good" thing in a M, obviously, but it can be a huge turning point where the couple can grow and be even deeper in love with each other having weathered the storm of the A. They will both realize that everyone makes mistakes, but it is not our mistakes that define us, it is how we cope and make ammends for those mistakes that truly make us who we are. The couple then feels pride in the fact that they have recovered successfully from one of the most heart-wrenching travesties known to man.

LaLa-

Thank you for that post. 'Nuff said.

Do your eyes hurt from reading it? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

I thought, since I was picking up on Mark's thought, that I would try to join the long-winded marathon that he and my DH co-sponser and see if I could at least finish in third place!!! Baaaaaahahahahahaha <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

No, it's not my eyes that hurt from reading it, but my heart could use a jump start. I just wish WW would pull her head out of her a$$ and see what she's doing. It is so painfully obvious to everyone around her that she is not thinking rationally. Ugh.

Hang in there, 14, it is a long road. DH and I sat in limbo for months (gosh, sorry, I know that won't cheer you up, but it IS reality) b4 I finally did (pulled my head out, that is). All you can do is suit up in your armor, put the babble on IGNORE, batten down the hatches and weather the storm. Remember this is YOUR choice to stick by her side...if you wish to change your choice, none of us would blame you ONE BIT!!!!

I know, I know. MY choice is to FIGHT until I have no fight left in me to protect OUR family. If she chooses otherwise, then she will have to live with the consequences of her choice, not me.

Awesome, LaLa!!! Thank you.

As for the "happiness" talk....I'm on board too. Don't know how many times in the last few weeks I've heard "I just want to be happy"...obviously I'm to blame for that <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Have we beat that into you enough? Hmmmm? Seriously, we are all here cheering you on!!!

ILA, oh yeah...all your fault (barf) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

I know that you guys are my (and everyone else's) cheerleaders. Some days just tend to suck no matter how hard you try otherwise. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

it's ok 14... you are entitled to those bad days.... we all are..... but imagine a 16lb little munchkin cheering you and TMTS and everyone else on here on.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

OK, I'm smiling now. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Lala, Ha... nice try I didn't cry this time. LOL

Thanks for that, it sounds very consistent with her actions.

I should answer your question from earlier... I'm alright, a little pi$$ed off at 14s WW but I know he will do just fine. She will be a complete nut case by the time he's finished with her.