I know, I get a little too emotionally involved sometimes, because I know it is all what W2S had to be going through with my ignorance! Be back after dinner!

TMTS:

I wanted to post about this line from you that you posted on Not2fun's thread:


You were advised not to throw down lines like this.

That is incorrect.

What you said was direct and from the heart. The WW KNOWS THIS and it crushes them.

You do not have to apologize again for things that you have apologized for, true, but keep it to your admiration for her.

About bringing your WW out of the FOG, is the true knowledge that you are in love with them, in spite of thier horrible actions.

That there is forgiveness in you, and the opportunity to restart this marriage.

When WW is sitting there someplace trying to figure out "Why am I here and how did I get here?" Your quote above will replay in her head. Over and over.

LG

I totally agree with Lousy Golfer on his last post. Especially because the WS was open to hearing it.

You can usually tell I think when a WS is not open to such intimacy.

LaLa.....great post. You have come a long way. W2S is lucky indeed. Keep on keeping on.

I also agree with LG...not "over the top" at all, which is how it was put, I think.

Thanks mopey!

That is one of the better posts I've seen here Resonance. It should be pasted up top with Joseph's Letter IMO.

Well, I see you guys don't need my input anymore...

LaLa...You said it from a perspective I could only hint at, since I was on the other end.

My BIG breakthrough came the day I realized that it wasn't in my power to make her happy and wasn't my job.

I think what happens in part is the result of the way people in our society view LOVE and happiness. Hollywood creates this world in which everything is wrong and by meeting the right person it all becomes right. Happiness is sought as something we are entitled to rather than a feeling we have as a result of not only our circumstances, but also our choices.

Romance novels build on this concept of love and define it as if it is something magical and something that simply happens to us. Because of the fantasy of finding and meeting that one person that can trigger that magic, we fail to realize that when we are feeling something for a person that is not our spouse we are in danger and think it must mean that this other person is actually the one. Since we can't distinguish between the reality of those feelings of love and the reason that they exist (a simple response to stimulus as Dr H has defined it) we have to resolve the conflict between what is real, that is our marriage of so many years, and the feelings we are developing for this other person.

In addition, there is a tension that exists between the road the potentially wayward person is beginning to travel and the ethical problem it creates for them. Thus the rewriting of the history of the marriage and vilification of the soon to be betrayed spouse. Because if there is no just cause to destroy the primary relationship, there is no justification for it, even in the eyes of the wayward. The alternative would be to admit that they were a bad person. No distinction is made in the heat of the moment that allows it to be a decision that can be good or bad and so the outcome is ensured because the feeling is not seen as a choice, but this magical irresistible force that is taking us down this road that we are helpless to prevent from happening.

The solution to prevent future affairs can be one of two things. First, and what most people see as the only option, at least at first, is for the betrayed spouse to meet any and all ENs of the (F)WS so that they have no reason to seek having their ENs met elsewhere.

But that is something that is totally impossible, because while it sounds doable, it is anything but for a person to be perfect forever. At some point, a love buster occurs or circumstances intervene to prevent it from happening. We all have a bad day or undergo some event that ends up rendering us impotent when it comes to giving that kind of support to another person no matter how much we love them. Sickness, separation (the military can kill marriages without firing a shot) and stress of work, children or a house that is falling apart around our ears can all add up to failure to meet all ENs.

The REAL solution is to have a personal boundary that prevents us from allowing anyone other than our spouse from meeting any significant ENs at all. Even this doesn't go far enough since meeting even a minor need repeatedly over time while avoiding love busters eventually leads to a Love Bank balance that can exceed the romantic threshold. And then, unless there is a safety valve or escape route that is preplanned and self activating, the previously wayward spouse is in danger of repeating the mistakes made previously that led to the affair.

Each of us is responsible for the feelings of only one person. That person is ourselves. In order to reach a point of being relatively certain that we will not allow ourselves to fall in love with anyone not our spouse, we must know how to recognize the potential for that happening and do something to stop it from occurring before we begin to have any feelings. This is what separates a true FORMER wayward spouse from a wayward spouse not actively engaged in an affair.

When Joseph was confronted with a situation in which he could have easily compromised his morals and devotion to obeying God, he did what is the only real option...He ran from it. It would have been easier to stand and allow it to happen and would have cost him less in the eyes of most people. But to Joseph, it was what it would do to him to let it continue that was the greater damage, because it would have been a sin against God.

To think that Joseph wasn't really tempted is a fallacy because he was a young adult male who by other accounts was quite handsome himself. He had also demonstrated that he had a pretty big ego and now here was this woman, his master's wife, trying to flatter him into having an affair with her. It is unlikely she would have been an old cow of a woman because a rich Egyptian with many slaves would simply not have a woman like that for a wife.

So the choice we have to make is to flee from the temptation rather than to allow it to feed something that is lacking inside of us. And the time to make that decision is when we are not confronted with a situation that makes it more difficult to make the right choice.

So an affair is really a boundary issue. And the boundary that is being violated is the wayward spouse's boundary as much or even more than that of the betrayed spouse. Since I can not set a boundary for anyone else, only for myself. And that is the boundary that I cross if I have an affair. It is the one that says that all inside is the marriage and outside is not and I therefore have no right to it and no one else has the right to cross the boundary and enter into what rightfully belongs to my spouse.

I know, I said you didn't need me, but I thought about this all day and had to post it somewhere or explode...

Mark

Mark,

This is exactly what our MC said to us at our 2 session. WS and I were depending on our happiness according to each other. I GOT what she was saying and could totally see it. WS on the other hand does not get it. He thinks we should depend on each other for our happiness. He said that he likes it when he does things for me that makes me happy and I should want the same. I understand what he is saying, but what he doesn't understand is that while our spouses can do things to make us happy, our complete and personal happiness does not depend on our spouse (is that what you all are saying???).

Mark and lala those were some GREAT posts....I'll have to come back and re-read those over the next couple of days to digest it all. thanks guys....

TMTS....hope things are good on your end....how you holding up??? Hows you A game going??? I'll check in with you later..gotta get the kiddies dinner and into bed...lol


not2fun

TYK- I am truly humbled. Your comment meant a lot to me!

And Mark- inspired post, as always!

Great post Mark. There are too many people who believe that it's all about the ENs.

RLT once said that if were the lack of ENs that caused affairs, she'd had 10 of them by now. And I agree.

YES! I have always thought this way. Don't put yourself in the position to be tempted in the first place.


WOW, yes so true.

Mark your post was very insightful and captured so much of the things that I have wanted to point out to my WS. (Not allowed, I know <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />)
I am feeling pity towards him more than anything now.

Thanks 14th.....

Actually didn't work. They don't offer me the edit button on the first page of thread. But thanks.

Queenie, TMTS and anyone else who might have an interest...

Once a thread passes a certain age, and I don't really know what that is, you can no longer edit the title or the early posts. Once each post passes that age, it too is beyond the time for editing.

So, if you want to change the title of your thread, you need to do it before that date passes and when that date arrives, you will forever have to live with whatever title you have on that date. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

I think it is six months, but I'll have to look into it to be sure.

We had that discussion on Ace's vacation thread over in Recovery" a while back and a bunch of folks colaberated on the name to set it to what it is today before the time for editing the first post ecpired. Lots of pages to wade through to find it, but maybe the search engine will help.

Nothing wrong with a new thread if you want your title to reflect a new place in your life or a new stage you are entering.

Mark

This is why I call the man my mentor.
Thanks once again Mark.

Come on, guys, time to cheer up a little...head on over to mopey's thread. Just don't drink anything while you read or it may come out your nose!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Hi Lala,

That was a good laugh, but it's getting serious again...

I got back from curling last night and had a weird feeling about WW. She was acting a little different. I don't know what to make of it. Is it that she is getting excited about her move? OM finally called her back and talked to her, and now knows about the move and will be back in the picture, or did I over do it on Saturday. She was as pleasant as usual but a little more (for lack of a better description) kid gloves around me, I just get a strange feeling she may have seen last Saturday's talk as weakness. We will have more time together tonight so well see what she's like.

TMTS,

Are you over-analyzing again??? Stick to your A game. You know what to do. and not she does not see your talk as weakness. Take it from a female. Do not try to figure her out, she's foggy. Nothing makes sense, you know all this. and remember DO AS I SAY NOT AS I DO....

Just wanted to pop in and check up on ya...no downer moods...ok....

not2fun

TMTS,

Have you read James Dobson's Love Must Be Tough?

Find it. Read it.

Mark

I agree...you are over-analyzing. You are going to drive yourself crazy trying to watch and disect her every move. Geez, maybe she was just happy about this weekend's turn of events and is feeling comfortable about being home!

Stick to the Plan.

Hi Mark,

Just ordered it from Amazon, should have it tomorrow. I also got a NIV study bible by Zondervan, Gary Chapman's Hope for the separated and Beyond Anger: A Guide for Men: How to Free Yourself from the Grip of Anger and Get More Out of Life.

If anybody has read any of these please let me know if I am wasting my time...except for the bible of course. If Gary Chapman’s book is anywhere near as good as the 5 love languages, then it's a good buy.