Mark, Pm, James. Thanks for your input. You all confirmed what I was thinking. The message I want to get across is good, but it needed to be modified to something more direct. My reverse babble sucks in terms of actually coming back with something, so I use the good old. "Oh, that's good" "That's nice". Last night she was trying to engage me in her shopping for a laptop. She says, I went to see the guy about a laptop, and he had on for $375 but also had one like yours (and IBM) for $475... She didn't ask what I thought about it and I just came back with "Oh, that's not bad, I need to go check on the chicken" You would have been proud Mark. (BTW - you got mail)

PM- You're right about passing this by the neighbor. I need to make sure that she understands that I do not want her to repeat this to her. Be clear that all I am looking for is her opinion based on what she knows of where my WWs head is right now. Luckily I have not stated this to her as she told me over the weekend that she is getting the keys for the apartment on Feb. 1. So I haven't brought it up in this context since my initial reactions in November.

Here is the thing that makes me think that the neighbor might be right about her not moving at all. Like the sofa, the laptop for her is something we had talked about a while ago, and could be used in the home. The important stuff like finalizing the LSA negotiations, she has not brought up since the day after where she had talked to my ODDs high school. She did talk to the neighbor about it, and her impression was that she was kind of freaked out by the process and the reality that this is a step towards D. That being said I am fully prepared for her to go. She mentions little things here and there I think in an attempt to get a reaction from me, which I don't so she sits there with a blank look on her face. She told me last night as I was rubbing her back that I shouldn't be so nice to her. I asked her why, she said "because I'm leaving your home", so I just answered I do it because I love you.

I feel good that there will be reconciliation at one point, when I don't know. But I sure hope I'm night and get the chance to introduce her to you in the hopes that the Mrs.W, Lala's, Lexxy's and LG's out there can help her process this mess.

TMTS...

I could really learn alot from you. My emotions are so out there and on my sleeve, and I just can't seem to control them. I actually do better now when he's trying to bait me, but have gotten no where with controlling them when he does something to set me off.

You are lucky to have the neighbor for info. I don't have that at all. WS is a doesn't have any friends he would talk to this about. Except maye his BF who lives in CA, and that man is a piece of crap literally....he's the same man who my sis was talking about him her thread (the one she kissed in Oct.).

I didn't have a good morning, had fight with WS, At the rate I am going I will push him straight into D court.

Gonna go scrub some toilets...of course it may be too late for that....
not2fun

Wow, I leave for one day and here you are.... doing awesome.

How are you today?

Hi Queenie,

I'm alright, how about you? Didn't sleep very well last night. Too much stinkin' thinkin' but not the downer kind, more of a trying to prep for her reactions to the plan over the next week. I can't stop thinking about why she had not talked about the LSA for almost a week now, and she is prepping to move next week. I want to be consistent in my delivery of I do M not separation message, meaning I don't want to bring it up, but part of me is thinking that maybe I should exploit the opening in her defense and lay it all on the line a la Bob Pure.

Here's a good one. I was just invited by one of our vendors to go to an NBA game next week. I have never met her face to face, but she always flirts a little with me when we talk and from all accounts she's is quite attractive and single. I thanked her and politely turn down the offer, but I wonder how crazy my WW would have been knowing that I was out with another woman (Even if it is professional). LOL

To be honest, I might not have, in your situation. Well, depending on the timing. Is this game scheduled to occur AFTER your WW plans to move out? The women reading this might kill me for suggesting this, but I think women are more attracted to men that attract the attention of other women <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />, and any jealousy she might feel over you enjoying someone else's company and them enjoying yours might work in your favour - it might bring her home faster, for example. I think you might be able to play this to your advantage.

I know that's not quite MB-like, but ....

NO NO NO NO

You were so right in turning her down. Nothing good could come of it. YOu know the dangers of doing something like this....

I am VERY PROUD of you for turning her down, when this is over and done with, you will probably receive an A++++ for applying all that you have learned. And when you "graduate" from MB's you can come and teach me....if I'm not already a lost cause....

not2fun

TMTS,

Got your email and will reply later if I get time.

Next time she says she is leaving (like last night when she said you shouldn't be so nice to her) simply say, "You don't have to do that, you know..." then suggest checking on dinner... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Good one there, BTW.

Not2,

The hardest part of Plan A is keeping your Taker locked up so you don't love bust. It can be trying to say the least, but you really do have to give with no expectation of anything of value to you in return and you have to do it for a while before it even starts to be accepted by the WS.

And TMTS, even flirting a little bit is dangerous. Especially with your ENs not getting met you need to stay as far from intimate conversation with attractive women as possible right now. Even after WW moves out unless you are filing for D instead of going to Plan B to wait for the fog to lift. DO NOT make this mistake. She was able to decide to have an affair by choosing to believe that your marriage was over. Don't compound the issue by making the same choice.

You made the right choice, TMTS. Stick with it, even after LSA. YOU keep your vows until divorce is final even if she doesn't.

Mark

Hey TMTS,
Just stoppin by to catch up on you. You're doin great! As bad as "moving day" sounds, I think it'll bring the end to this madness and reality will finally slap her in the face. Keep up the good work, man.

As for me, I'm not doing anything. I sent my letter and I'm trying to keep still. It's tough... I think someone needs to tie me up with a rope.

DM

Thanks guys,

I'm actually very proud of myself for the way I handled that invite. Because for the first time in a long time there was no flirting. Luckily I only talk to her a few times a year and that's at renewal time.
I see no issue in keeping my vows because right now and for the foreseeable future my trust in women is pretty low (Except my M and DDs of course, with them it's unconditional). And that's the way I looked at the invite... what do you want from me?

DM - Thanks for stopping by, I've been keeping up with you're situation but haven't had anything intelligent to say. That and I get real agitated towards your WW. Just the idea of OM2 pisses me off. Bud, you want to be really thinking a dark plan B before you go nuts! In the mean time we can duct tape you under W2Ss shed with Lala and feed you duck farts.

TMTS,
I had a similar experience, got invited to "go out, have some fun, and have a little poke". I almost fell over. I know its completely out of line and unacceptable, but it did echo in my head for quite a while, just thinking how crazy it would make WW. But wrong is wrong, and everyone's advice here helped. I am trying very hard to talk about this only with male friends. Hang tight, I'm trying to follow along and give you support.
Lino

TMTS,

You see, the problem isn't your resolve, it is your vulnerability. Because you have unmet ENs right now, you have to beware all such situations because while you SAY "I'd never do that" and mean it, once someone begins to meet those ENs you are not really able to stop the process before it is too late. Especially when there is no SF at home, men become extremely vulnerable because as Robin Williams said "...men have two heads and only enough blood to run one at a time."

This is really the way a wayward gets into an affair most of the time. It isn't a conscious decision to hurt their spouse but allowing another person to build a love bank balance that exceeds the romantic threshold. Once that happens, the feelings are there. Then it becomes merely a matter of will to stop from acting on those feelings, which unless all contact is severed right then, continue to not only be present but to grow as well.

And as much as the topic of real love versus fantasy love gets bandied about on these forums, the truth is that the same feelings and the same method of those feelings of coming into existence was what brought you and your spouse together in the first place (unless you had an arranged marriage and never experienced those feelings for your spouse at all). This is how you fall in love with someone.

So the issue of protecting yourself from falling into an affair has more to do with understanding that another person cannot be allowed to meet your ENs and you should not place yourself in a position where that becomes possible more than it has to do with a strong resolve or a sincere longing to remain faithful.

The slope is so slippery that once encountered very few have the character or will to stop the slide because having our ENs met and not having anything to debit against a person's account is what makes us have feelings of love for that person. Think LB$ deposits and no love busters here.

And FWIW, I'm proud of you too.

Mark

Hey TMTS--

I've been sick the past few days, so I haven't been around much, but I just wanted to check in an say hi.

I've skimmed thru the past few pages, and just wanted to re-affirm what just about everyone else is saying... GOOD JOB REJECTING THE OFFER OF THE OTHER LADY! You are emotionally vulnerable right now, and DO NOT want to do that.

As a proof of principle... my H did this to me shortly after I moved out of the house. I came to find out that he was surfing online personal ads, before I moved out, and then THE DAY I moved out he put himself up on a personal ads site as "single" and then started an EA that way (this was the woman that he took out on dates, sent flowers, met her family, etc etc... very involved EA). I wasn't right in leaving the house, and I was involved in my OWN EA at the time... and he went out searching for someone else to fufill his EAs.

I found out after it had been going on for about a month and a half. He tried lying his way out of it (a lot of times... it took 5 days of lies (and the lies kept changing) before I found out the ENTIRE truth... from HER. (He had told her he was single and moving to her area of the country, so he had lied to her too... so she was very cooperative with me...).

Anyways, it SEVERELY damaged our opportunities for reconciliation. VERY VERY much. Not only did it DEVASTATE me (which is funny, seeing as I was involved in my own A, but it's true)-- I then had a further "reason" to stay away. Plus, it introduced trust issues on the other side. And, for that month and a half he was "dating" her (or whatever you want to call it... blech), he was VERY short with me, acted VERY differently. So much so, in fact after the weekend he "saw" her, I was supposed to move home. Well, he came home from his 3 day long date with her (I thought he was at work...) and he picked a fight with me, attacked me, then told me he DIDN'T WANT me to move home. He pretty much took all of the energy he WAS investing in our R and invested it in her instead... rubbing her feet, sending her cards, flowers, and taking her out on fancy dates.

So-- ITS A BAD IDEA! I honestly, really honestly, think that our reconciliation would have been LIGHT YEARS easier without that monkey wrench. All of that happened about a year ago now (for time frame references, I moved home in June).

Plus-- you don't REALLY want to be like HER right now, DO YOU?? You're better than that TMTS!! (As we've seen.. and that's why you turned her down... just want to make sure you don't cave ever!).

Until you give up on your M, DO NOT, DO NOT, DO NOT expose yourself to women outside of casual contact. You are WAY WAY WAY too vulnerable.

RIM

So I guess that goes for hookers too...dang. LOL (Sorry I'm in a real silly mood today).

HA! No hookers either. But that is for a different reason. You don't want any of the STD trading cards they have....

RIM

Hey TMTS,

I'll throw my two cents in here too...

I took a short tour through match.com to see what might be out there for me but never went beyond browsing...caught myself and realized I was barking up the wrong tree...wonder what could have happened if I'd explored more deeply

...slippery slope...

You're doing GREAT, btw, and I have spent much time reading through your sitch...keep it up!

L2F

Well we talked some more about the LSA. There are still some things to negotiate but she's not looking for much, half the assets but she hasn't thought about how much alimony. This was hard because all the fog babble is hard to ignore when it comes out of her. I don't think I can love you like that again. I had to leave the room after a while because I was getting upset. I did do a boo boo though. When we talked about the term of the LSA I told her that I would prefer one year because that would make sense, then said that that should be enough time to heal over this...and that I should be starting to think about moving on. She asked if I really thought so (Here it comes...)I answered, I thinks so, as a matter of fact I was asked out on a date today, one of the ladies from the insurance company asked me to go to a NBA game with her. I could have slapped myself as soon as it came out (See, I don't have this down to an art form). Anyhow, she was much more upset afterwards when she did the mistake of calling her M. She started up on her about a couple on Dr. Phil and that the situation was similar to ours, so he asked her if she saw the OM was the kind of person she could grow with romantically, she said yes, then he said something to the fact that if he could do this with her he could do it to her. After they talked she was upset so I sat down as she told me that she never felt that close with her M that she could talk to her about things.

I'm not feeling the hope I was earlier on this week, it all seems so final. I know it's not but don't try telling that to my heart right now. I'm better after talking to my MIL how invited me for dinner.

Right now I'm in the same kind of mood not was in earlier this week and think that Plan FU might be in order.

Thanks L2F, I don't feel like I'm doing very well right now. I guess I still have to work on the No Expectations part. I repeated to her what my preference would be, but she is determoned that she is done. I know in my head it's babble, but it's so hard to hear and process.

Well, so you let it slip that you are an attractive man and you have opportunities too. I think it is good that you are being honest with your wife.

Believer, you don't see this as being bad? I've never considered myself particularly physically attractive, but I have been told that I have the kind of personality that's hard not to like. I'm one of those "can get along with a Tasmanian devil" types. Well I tell you it really did feel good that I can be seen as desirable by other women.
I hope your assessment is right.

I know how good it feels after being constantly rejected.

Just be careful. You are very vulnerable right now.

I had a ONS with an old friend, and regretted it immediately. But being rejected for 3 years made me weak.