Morning TMTS,

I can't stress enough, that down the home stretch you NEED TO TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF... Did you hear that....

TMTS, You know I love ya dude, am so happy with all the stuff going on, heck I am jealous as heck....but I continually see a pattern here that I just want to mention.

In the last few posts NO WHERE has G-d been mentioned or giving it to HIM. TMTS, HE IS THE ONE RUNNING THE SHOW. Stop trying to get into HER HEAD. SEEK G-D and ask him WHAT HE WANTS YOU TO BE DOING. Because they you won't go wrong.

To try and out guess what the WW is doing, thinking is almost suicidal because they are dangerous and sick. I can't remember who posted I think Pom. Anyways. She is dangerous. G-d is the one taking care of you and her. Let him do it. Seek his plan for you o what to do. I think you will feel less anxious and more protected because you will be in his will and doing his work.

I am really happy with these events. It is a good sign, but then again. We don't know what the plan is. G-d does, so look to him for your next step.

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Hi Queenie,

Oh don't be jealous yet, nothing has been actually done, it's all just speculation as far as I'm concerned. The day she talks to me and says I think I am making a mistake and really want to work on us I'll feel so much better and then you could be jealous. But we are not there yet.

I have been having chats with g-d nightly, praying mostly for guidance for her, the waywards of my friend here, and my kids. I feel like I have the path chosen for me, which is why one of the first to take on my "case" was Mark and yourself. To me this was the sign that it was time for me to come back to him. Now as for letting my WW completely in his hands is harder but I am trying.

Yes the constant internal analysis is going to be the thing that brings me down if anything. That is really difficult to turn off, and in a very sick way it is a coping mechanism.

Please be calm TMTS.

I would like to discuss this with you: I think you may be making a huge mistake carrying Plan A past her move out date. I think that in reality that is going to have the effect of "cushioning" her transition. I know what Jennifer told you, and I am leery of contradicting her advice, but I really wonder about this decision, both for your well being and for its tactical value.

Hopefully she will decide not to move, she's definitely seen enough evidence about OM to really be doubting that option, but the fact that she is still persisting is not a good sign. I think you need to be backing off and planning a shock and awe Plan B letter to be handed to her as her last item leaves the doorway.

Sorry to say it, but I just don't understand what effect Plan A is going to have beyond this point other than to build resentment within you.

What do you do to blow off steam?

My therapist explained to me that when you're in a highly emotional state, as you are now, the part of the brain that controls thinking gets less blood than the part of the brain that controls the fight or flight response. This is why people lose it when the emotions take over.

So she said that thought stopping is very important. So how do you engage in thought stopping? Do the stuff you do to blow off steam. Go for a walk. Play video games (my escape), watch a movie.

I know how hard it is. I was a pilot when the WW went nutty. I had simulator training one day. My mind wasn't in the sim at all. I basically had a panic attack in the cockpit (of the sim) and knew that taking the sim was a bad idea. I couldn't wait for it to end.

Nobody was clued into how I felt. I hid it very well. But I did tell my commander afterwards and my training stopped.

It's tough. It's tough since your mind seems to come back to this stuff no matter what you do. It gets better with time and takes effort on your part to not think about it.

Good luck with trying this, but you really need to try thought stopping. It gets you nowhere. If you're laying in bed unable to sleep, then read a book, go watch TV, take a pill, do something to interrupt your thoughts.

Morning TMTS,

Don't I know this and you are doing a great job.

One thing I learned to do is talk to G-d all day long. I am constantly say "Are you here G-d?', he says "Yes, Queenie, I am here". Talk to him through out your day, exercise that muscle. Ask him about the little things that don't matter, what do you want me to eat, what thoughts do you want me to have, can I pray for the willingness to let my WW go completely and let you take care of her. You know, those little things in life that G-d wants so badle for us to turn over. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I read this somewhere and it has stuck with me....

MEMO FROM GOD
Effective immediately, please be aware that there are changes you need to make in your life. These changes need to be completed in order that I may fulfill my promises to you -- to grant you peace, joy and happiness in this life. I apologize for any inconvenience, but after all that I am doing, this seems very little to ask of you. I know, I already gave you the 10 Commandments. Keep them. But follow these 10 guidelines, also.

1. QUIT WORRYING- Life has dealt you a blow and all you do is sit and worry. Have you forgotten that I am here to take all your burdens and carry them for you? Or do you just enjoy fretting over every little thing that comes your way?

2. PUT IT ON THE LIST- Something needs to be done or taken care of. Put it on the list. No, not YOUR list. Put it on MY to-do list. Let ME be the one to take care of the problem. I can't help you until you turn it over to me. And although my to-do-list is long, I am after all, God. I can take care of anything you put into my hands. In fact, if the truth were ever really known, I take care of a lot of things for you that you never even realize.

3. TRUST ME- Once you've given your burdens to me, quit trying to take them back. Trust in me. Have the faith that I will take care of all your needs, your problems and your trials. Problems with the kids? Put them on my list. Problem with finances? Put it on my list. Problems with your emotional roller coaster? For my sake, put it on my list. I want to help you. All you have to do is ask.

4. LEAVE IT ALONE- Don't wake up one morning and say, "Well, I'm feeling much stronger now, I think I can handle it from here." Why do you think you are feeling stronger now? It's simple. You gave me your burdens and I'm taking care of them. I also renew your strength and cover you in my peace. Don't you know that if I give you these problems back, you will be right back where you started? Leave them with me and forget about them. Just let me do my job.

5. TALK TO ME- I want you to forget a lot of things. Forget what was making you crazy. Forget the worry and the fretting because you know I'm in control. But, there's one thing I pray you never forget. Please don't forget to talk to me - OFTEN! I love you. I want to hear your voice. I want you to include me in on the things going on in your life. I want to hear you talk about your friends and family. Prayer is simply you having a conversation with me. I want to be your dearest friend.

6. HAVE FAITH- I see a lot of things from up here that you can't see from where you are. Have faith in me that I know what I'm doing. Trust me, you wouldn't want the view from my eyes. I will continue to care for you, watch over you, and meet your needs. You only have to trust me. Although I have a much bigger task than you, it seems as if you have so much trouble just doing your simple part. How hard can trust be?

7. SHARE- You were taught to share when you were only two years old. When did you forget? That rule still applies. Share with those who are less fortunate than you. Share your joy with those who need encouragement. Share your laughter with those who haven't heard any in such a long time. Share your tears with those who have forgotten how to cry. Share your faith with those who have none.

8. BE PATIENT- I managed to fix it so in just one lifetime you could have so many diverse experiences. You grow from a child to an adult, have children, change jobs many times, learn many trades, travel to so many places, meet thousands of people, and experience so much. How can you be so impatient then when it takes me a little longer than you expect to handle something on my to-do-list? Trust in my timing, for my timing is perfect. Just because I created the entire universe in only six days, everyone thinks I should always rush, rush, rush.

9. BE KIND- Be kind to others, for I love them just as much as I love you. They may not dress like you, or talk like you, or live the same way you do, but I still love you all. Please try to get along, for my sake. I created each of you different in some way. It would be too boring if you were all identical. Please know I love each of your differences.

10. LOVE YOURSELF- As much as I love you, how can you not love yourself? You were created by me for one reason only - to be loved, and to love in return. I am a God of Love. Love me. Love your neighbors. But also love yourself. It makes my heartache when I see you so angry with yourself when things go wrong. You are very precious to me. Don't ever forget that!With all my heart I love you,God

FWIW, I couldn't agree more with Tyk's advice. Just as the last item is being removed ... shock and awe ... bring the Plan B reality crashing down on her ... she is NOW truly on her own. The OM is waffling, and playing her as his Plan B, while you take care of yourself 1st with her being your own Plan B.

At this point, if she carries through with the move, she just MAGNIFIED her disrespect for you, and will have shown through her actions her complete indifference to your feelings ... CUT HER LOOSE COMPLETELY AT THAT POINT ... if she returns, under your Plan B conditions, then you may have something to work on ... if she starts dating others (or agrees to be the OM's "side thing"), then there is nothing left to recover anyway.

I agree that it looks hopeful, but assuming we're misreading her intentions, isn't that REALLY the situation you find yourself in???

1st let me admit to being a non-believer, but was raised in a very religious family, and respect their beliefs, and would like to offer up a different POV for consideration.

I think the above advice is very dangerous, because it replaces a well thought out plan of action with blind faith in some OTHER entity to take care of YOUR problems.

From my perspective and upbringing, I was taught that God helps those who help themselves, and isn't blind faith in someone else, what got us all in this sitution???

Just food for thought, and not intended to disrespect anyone else's interpretation of their own beliefs.

I'm calling the neighbor right now. She is really the only one with the finger on the pulse right now.

About Plan B, I had originally thought about doing exactly as you describe and going to Plan b on move day. Now Jennifer's suggestion is based on the fact that the A was still active. But I do understand the risk in this, the excitement of going it alone is strong right now, Mr. w/ had suggested that one of the reasons the Harley's recommend waiting 2 weeks is to give time for that excitement to dwindle a little.

This is a big curve ball you folks just put out there. I'm really not sure which way to go on this one, as far as me sustaining plan A, I'm still good for a while. That and I do not have my PBL anywhere near ready.

TMTS,

When you ask, "What does this mean?" or when you say "I wish I knew what she was planning..." you are setting yourself up for disappointment.

What you think or what any of us think matters not a jot...

Focus on the plan. Use what YOU have learned. You keep looking for a magic bullet still, after all of this...

You are like the salesman who has made a great presentation and the customer has said "I need to think about it..." At that point no more selling can make the sale. The customer will not buy today and repeated attempts to close the deal will only result in frustration for both customer and salesman.

You express hope that she will be doing a certain thing or that specific circumstances will occur in a certain order.."I hope..." "I wish..." "I wonder..." But then you attempt to extrapolate future events from these unknown variables. These are expectations and will dash your hopes every single time.

If I ask what every one thinks my weather will be like tomorrow, a few would get it pretty close. LC knows where I live and could look it up, or Shock could get it pretty close because we discussed the weather last night and compared his with mine, but that isn't going to allow anyone to accurately forecast my weather over time.

And here is where it gets convoluted...If I begin the day by saying that it is a bright sunny day and that it is absolutely beautiful outside right now, what can anyone tell me about my weather for today? Because now those giving me the forecast have a notion of what a beautiful sunny day looks like and how it feels. For Queenie, the sun making any appearance at this time of year is a novelty. For Shock it might mean that it isn't as hot as it was in July and for BK it means something else entirely because he is in the midst of summer. For BP just a peak of the sun can brighten any afternoon because winters in Jolly Ole can be pretty gray...

Now if I take BK's forecast for me and dress as if he is 100% accurate...I will freeze my butt off, literally, since it is a beautiful sunny bright glorious day and just happens to be 2 degrees outside (Fahrenheit that is) and with the wind it feels like it is minus 20.

Now I have asked for advice on how to dress, but I also have to keep my ... what's the word I'm looking for here gang?... I have to keep my EXPECTATIONS under control. While I would love for it to be sunny and cheerful and 85F, if I dress for 85 I'm gonna be a Popsicle at the side of the road before I get out of the driveway.

So I can hope that I don't get frostbite today and to BK or Shock that might seem like a pretty remote likelihood, unless I dress for what I know is going on, not what I think might happen or what I wish would happen, when I walk out that door, I am going to get the shock of my life. And then I begin to doubt my advice and my observations. But the real problem is that I read INTO what I was being told in part because others did as well and that was the result of my filtering of the observations to begin with. It is sunny outside and I wanted to play on that track because it could lead me to where I'd like to be, which is fishing on a quiet lake wearing shorts and a tee shirt.

Trust me, it ain't gonna happen today.

Hope keeps you going, faith can give you strength to move on when all is looking so bleak, but when you try to extrapolate from the things you know, into the realm of the unknown and then base your decisions on those unknown and unproven guesses, you will get trashed every single time and that will begin to eat at both your hope and your faith and leave you hopeless, hapless and helpless...

Plan A...Show her what being with you can be like as if she is going to stay there for ever. Base you assumptions on the idea that she will be moving out on Saturday. No ammount of wishing will solve the problem, which is "What do I do if she actually moves out?" It scares the he!! out of you and believe me I understand that. You need two first steps for two different plans. One is if she stays home...You already have that plan down pat...You need to know what you will do if she moves out and know what you need to do to continue Plan A while living apart. You also need to figure out what will push you to the point of Plan B because you need to be able to see those circumstances coming and get into Plan B before your love for her dies.

It would be wonderful for her to wake up on Saturday, see you sitting beside her and say, "How could I have been such an idiot" and fall into your arms. I'll even pray that it happens like that. But you also have to be prepared for what to do if ist doesn't go down like that.

Her actions and words to the neighbor all say she is conflicted. But another set of actions says that she is committed to moving out. It's a conflict but the dilemma is hers. You need to go by what you know to be true and stop trying to figure out every possible avenue into the future. You don't get to choose the future, only the present and only as it applies to you and what you will do.

Mark

TMTS,

I definitely see Jennifer's point in waiting to go to Plan B. At first your WW will feel like she is on vacation and away from it all. After a few weeks reality will set in and she will realize how boring it is to live by yourself when you are use to being surrounded by your family. She won't have anything to do, certainly FOM won't be there 24/7 for her.

Plan A makes you look good. Calling her and saying, "Hi Honey, I'm making such and such for dinner, we would love to have you join us." or similar will certainly help. IMO

On a side note, I did actually laugh out loud when I read your comment that you didn't realize I was from the dark side. My DH and I were actually discussing yesterday as we read your thread, Lino's and 14's how I felt like I knew what the next move was going to be because I had BTDT.

This is probably the first time I can follow threads of this nature and not get angry with myself for being so incredilby stupid or getting very frustrated for the BS wanting to tell the WW to wake up, but on the flip side knowing what fantasyland does and how it makes a person feel and how hard it is to pop that dang bubble and see the reality of the situation.

If your WW is showing signs to the neighbor she is warming up to you that's good news for you. It means you found a small crack through the hard exterior she has created around herself. If your WW is anything like I was, she wants to hate you, but that is very, very hard to do when you are meeting her needs.

LC

I just got off the phone with the neighbor. The news is that POS OM has not told her yet and still plans on helping her move, but has told neighbor that there is no plan to string her along. I don't trust this POS at all. She was talking about needing space still so I need to make sure she understands what she is getting herself into, and that I will be looking for a permanent LSA and full division of assets right now. This will be big for her because it removes her name from the deed. She told neighbor that she didn't want to commit again until she knew that her heart can be in it. My take on that is as long as she thinks that OM can still be in the picture then there is no way her heart will be in it.

She has in her mind that she will be able to go and cake eat and that I will sit there and wait. I cannot leave her with that impression. I am seriously thinking of taking the W2S approach and that is to lay it out not as a threat but as reality. I do not want to be in a M where this is the kind of games I can expect. If she wants out then she will have her out and I will move on.

The neighbor will call me back because we were not finished yet. But right now I feel like my Plan A made her too comfortable, time to really wield the stick because all she sees right now is the carrot.

I think you should give her the info you have about OM ,and perhaps even let the cat out of the bag that you are talking to the neighbor and that she doesn't support your WW's actions. Would she be willing to lay her friendship with your WW on the line and deliver some "tough love"? I view this as some further exposure, the fact that she views this neighbor as a "safe" place, someone who supports her, shelters her, to find out that she really is alone in this and that even the one place she thought was a safe hideout isn't. . .

It would be sacrificing the intel you get from her, but if she moves, she won't be coming over to hang out with the neighbor anyhow, so that's would end. If its going to end, you might as well tear some more holes in the fantasy while you can is my thought. This of course must be done with the consent of the neighbor. She's been a fairly good ally through this and it wouldn't be honorable to throw her to the wolves.

Tyk,

This is the thoughts going through my head right now. The neighbor is constantly trying to get her to open her eyes and downplay the assumptions that I will always be there waiting. I will mention it to her when she calls back. I will even ask her to have him contact me so I can give him my POV on why she is moving and how much it dependant on having a relationship with him.

I think that she would be mad about the fact that she has been my ally in this, but I also think that the neighbor would be wiling to give up the friendship because it is more out of convenience that she lives nearby. When I talk to her later I will ask if she could ramp it up, and be a true friend to her. She was telling me that she is starting to get mad with her because none of the logic is there.

TMTS,

Do nothing from anger or disappointment, only from love and caring. If you intend to punish her, go to plan FU and skip all this heartache.

Bottom line, are you fighting for your wife or are you fighting to be right? If the first, fight on. If the later, just move on and don't work so hard.

Sometimes the question needs to be, "Do I want to be right or recovered?"

Mark

Tyk, I may be wrong, but I was under the impression that the neighbor was a male, which always caused me some concern as WW was reaching out to even another male to meet some of her ENs. However, if I've confused this issue, I apologize.

I want her to stay and recover what we had and make it better. The issue I'm struggling with right now is that she has in her mind that she can go have her fun and that I will sit there waiting for her. I just want to make sure that she understands that there is no guarantee of that. She talks to neighbor about having space, all fog babble in my eyes. I need to get this guy to call her tonight, tell her it's over and tell her he will not be available for the move. Then I need to sit down with her and explain that there is no guarantee of recovery if she leaves, that in itself will bring this to a whole new level of pain. This needs to happen today, giving her two full days to think this through.

The information I'm getting is saying that if the right things are done now, i.e., OM calling her, that there is a real good chance at recovery without her moving out.
I am looking for ways to add more pressure to the reality of her moving out.

Any other comments on going to Plan B immediately?

Ya, I think you're confused MyRev.

I agree with Mark, this isn't about punishing her. It is about doing whatever you can to attack the A and the fantasy that your W is holding on to.

TMTS' neighbor revealing that she is not, and has never believed his W is doing the right thing and has been supporting TMTS through this whole ordeal will be yet another fantasy rug being pulled out from under WW. I view it as just an extension of exposure. She's been going over there hiding, talking about OM and building her fantasy life up in a "safe" place. It would be great if neighbor would step up and tell WW just how stupid she thinks she is and how big a mistake WW is getting ready to make.

Both neighbors are female. #1 is the person in touch with OM getting the info from him. #2 is also a big supporter in that she tells it like it is.

Oh I didn't mention that she did mention to them how good I looked Monday night and was very curious. She said "I'm not mad, just curious. I think she may have been a little more than curious, but who knows.

I don't think you should count on getting OM to do anything.

Both have been consistently telling her that. #2 has told her this in a much stronger way.

I'm convinced that until OM tells her himself that it's over, she will continue to hold on to that hope. She is probably thinking that if he wasn’t interested why is he still helping me move? By getting him to step out before she moves that give the fog a chance to lift enough to let her have reality strike.