TMTS,

Here's my thoughts on the current situation. You have done a wonderful plan a to this point with everyones guidance. To me, your DW intending to go through with this move is blantantly disrespectful of you and your M. There is no other way to see it other than she thinks in her warped wayward mind that she can move out, see if OM comes through for her or otherwise play the field and all the while she will have you waiting to reconcile and rescue her. It's total bullchit if you ask me! I don't blame you one bit for wanting to inject a little reality into the situation. Who wouldn't?

With all that being said, what you are contemplating, TMTS, is a huge risk. You have to be willing to accept the consequences of what doing this could mean. It could finally snap your DW from her warped way of thinking or it could ruin the months of plan a that you have done. If you reached a point where you can no longer continue plan a and are willing to lay it all on the line and go to plan b right after the move you should take the chance. Noone here would blame you.

Your a great guy TMTS. It would be hard, but I'm sure you could find love and hapiness again should this not play out the way you hope. The choice is yours, we'll be here to support you no matter what you decide. Hang in there!

Want2Stay

W2S, you’ve hit where my struggle is. This is almost like a semi withdrawal she's going through and until he tells her exactly what is going on and that he has in fact moved on I think the idea of moving is still on. This idea that I will sit back and wait for her while she decides what she wants to do is hard to swallow, but how much of it is fog induced and related back to the OM. At this point she suspects that he will not be there for her but he gave her some line about not believing everything you hear, so in her mind A is still on, all she has right now is a suspicion that he is a chump. Everybody else sees it but her, and this is why she is still holding on to the OM. I think everything changes once he does what he needs to do and should have done a while ago.

You are operating under the mistake assumption that he conducts himself with some shred of integrity.

He doesn't care if your WW moves out, if she does, it gives him an easy booty call should he choose to indulge in it.

This is what I told you to say to her a couple pages back...

I do not see a LB in that statement. This would be speaking your truth from your heart and would be in keeping with Plan A. It would not be said in any kind of threatening manor. As a matter of fact, I would say it very softly while looking her straight in the eye. Do not say any more than that...it is enough for now. Until you truly go to Plan B, there is nothing more that should be said. Plan B speaks for itself, and while it is meant to be reality check for her, it is also to remove yourself from the drama and the pain of her ongoing A, or dating in this case. It is a time where you are supposed to be able to have peace again after months of Plan A, which is draining to say the least.

The point is, you cannot spend an hour educating her or telling her how it's gonna be or otherwise destroying all your hard work of the past few weeks. You just softly state your position in this. If she gets upset, just say, "I cherish the love we once had, I think you are beautiful and I want you to remain here as my wife so that we can both fall in love with each other again."

DO NOT talk to her about the OM. If she is trying to save face somehow, you trying to point out what a pos he is won't do a bit of good. It will work the opposite way...she will see you as the bad guy. She will defend him which will make you mad, and BOOM all your hard work down the tubes.

You have shown us that you can say the perfect things at the perfect times. This is just another opportunity for you to bring YOUR truth to her (not OM's or hers). Even if she moves out, it will probably be a while b4 she would venture out to hit the "singles" scene, so you still have time b4 you go to Plan B. Only YOU will know when that time is right.

Ah the voice of reason... I've pretty much memorized that in my head and I've been waiting for her to come talk about the LSA to put it out there. I cannot be involved in telling her anything, I agree that it would just push her away. I will talk to my neighbor some more today and see if she would be willing to step it up a notch and tell her that she has been chatting with him and tell WW what she knows. Then she can really see what the scoop is and call him on it. We shall see what more the neighbor found out.

I was thinking the neighbor already told your WW she had a conversation with him. My mistake.

Absolutely have her tell your WW what he said. She could tell her she felt something fishy and then tell her the rest of the story.

LC

No she did not. They tried to convince her that the evidence she saw on Friday about having a GF should have done it. I think the POS OM fed her some more line so she still thinks there is a chance. This is why I want to ask her to tell her straight out about the conversation. I hope I can get somewhere with her.

Hey TMTS,

I've been following your thread. Not sure why, but now I'm invested. My situation isn't even close to yours - there's no WS in my M...yet. But anyway, I want to share 2 thoughts on what I'm noticing today, take it or leave it, and I will then back out.

1. You're feeling the crunch. You're counting days. And with this, I see you now more than ever trying desperately to control things you CANNOT control, thus losing control of what you CAN control. Don't lose sight of what you CAN control: YOU!
2. This OM is telling WW what she wants to hear, would you agree? Why then, are you giving him so much credit or placing so much faith in him that he's not doing the same w/your neighbor? You're so caught up in MAKING him tell WW it's over...but this guy is a "player" and obviously has a pretty strong hold on WW - maybe he knows it, maybe he doesn't. My point is, why would anybody believe anything he's saying to anybody? What if he doesn't, what will you do then?

You can only control what YOU will do. I'm at the edge of my seat too so I can only imagine how anxious & desperate you are becoming. But don't let this all fall apart now, and don't let it all ride in OM's hands either. When my mind begins to race, I start journaling. How about since your mind is racing, you start on your PBL?

**I now return you to the experts. Hopefully I'm not way out of line, I'll apologize in advance if I am. Hold on.**

TMTS,

PLEASE take your hands off of the keyboard and step back. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Now take some breaths. Good!

Now listen and listen very closely. YOU ARE TRYING TO CONTROL YOUR W...STOP IT

You are going through all of the "what if" scenarios, will she leave, will she get a LSA, will POSOM really hang from the tree by his tail, or will he...?

It does not matter. What you don't know is that IF your W decides to come back you are in for some very very hard work, and if you spend all of your energy on "what ifs", you won't be able to recover. You have not even faced and asked yourself the hard questions yet: "Will I ever respect her again? Will I ever trust her again? Will there be another man instead of POSOM? etc"

She had decisions to make and so do you. What are you going to do if she stays? What are you going to do if she leaves? Are you going to keep on living and take care of your children no matter what she decides? Are you going to keep working, no matter what she decides? Are you going to keep growing as a person, a man, a father no matter what she decides? Are you going to be a good father, a good friend, a good relative, a good son, if she leaves? What if she stays, what then?

You are NOT focusing on the important stuff, and that is the stuff YOU can control. You are not focusing on the lessons of all of this no matter WHAT SHE DECIDES about HER life. You have a life, you will have a life, you have children, you will have children, and with what you have learned here and how you have changed you WILL HAVE ANOTHER DEEP AND FULFILLING RELATIONSHIP in your life. It may or may NOT be with your wife.

So instead of focusing on the "what ifs", focus on you, focus on the good you do, focus on where YOU want to improve in your many roles in this life. No matter what your W does or chooses (and I do beleive she will regret her choices do date and many of the ones before her) YOU NEED TO CHOOSE TO BE THE MAN THAT SHE REGRETS EVER LEAVING. And this is true no matter what she choses.

Quit worrying about her. She has removed herself from your sphere of influence and you are panicing about it. All her actions have done is made her live her life on her own, KNOWING she is a liar and a cheater. Right now that might sound attractive to her, in the future I doubt that it will. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> She should not be receiving your help, she does not want your help, and she does not deserve your help ASSUMING you actually could help, which you cannot.

Step back and focus on your plans for your life and those children of yours. If she chooses to join your life again, then you have some really really hard decisions to make, ask any BS here.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

Hi Julie,

Well, where have you been hiding? Very good insight.
I agree with you on #1. As for #2, yes, having him tell her is probably not going to happen unless he decides to anyway. I see no reason for him not to be straight with the neighbor though, it sounds like he was looking for an out that didn't make him look bad (This is what they have been telling me all along). So I will talk to neighbour about exposing what he told her, at very least it puts pressure on the A.

And FWIW you are nowhere near out of line. I can tell from your post that you got me pegged pretty well. Thanks for your input.

JL - Thanks, I think that was the slap I needed to get me back out of this. You are all right and I know this from what I have learned here. I can only control me!!! I think it really just got real crazy when it was known that he had moved on and I saw an opportunity. But him moving on is not the same as her moving on, I get that. Best thing I could do tonight is just stop worrying and continue with the plan as if I know nothing about what is going on in the background, just let that work itself out. As for the three hard questions, these are things I have thought about and know in my heart I can work to get to, except for a 2nd other man that to me is a deal breaker.

Thank you for chiming in, I always appreciate your candor.

Best thing you can do is be still.... and let go....

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

TMTS,

A bunch of folks have given you their $.02 worth. And what do you have? Something around 20 cents...That and another couple of bucks you can get a cup of coffee...

We all have our opinions and you have yours. But you have paid Jennifer for her opinion and it is really a trained and educated plan that she offers rather than just the opinion of those who have BTDT. We all have our perspective, all based on our own experience. But Jennifer has been paid for her guidance and she has no point of reference other than what she knows has worked in the past.

As I recall she has said you should remain in Plan A for a couple weeks at least if and when your wife moves out. The reason for this, she gave you. Going to Plan B will be seen as punishment by your WW. This will be true whether you do it the day she leaves or two weeks later. But by waiting, she will have begun to live in some reality that will already be bad for the fantasy she had envisioned and then the reality that you will not simply support her forever will have a serious effect.

Going Plan B and "cutting her off" on the day she moves will reinforce her idea that you are the bad guy and OM is the one who can rescue her. Even if OM dumps her, she will just write it off as not having found Mr Right yet and keep looking.

So your plan that you paid Jennifer to give you, to Plan A until a few weeks after she moves out and then go to a planned and well thought out Plan B to avoid having to be hurt any more by her actions is the best bet for your marriage. And that is what Plan B is for, to allow you to be ready to take her back when and if she wakes up.

Nothing in Plan A OR Plan B is designed to make the WS do anything. It is not a way to manipulate those actions or change the way they relate to reality. Plan A is designed to fill the LB$ as much as possible so that the WS does have feelings for you and then Plan B is designed to protect what you have left in your LB$ so that you have the strength to go on when A ends.

Nothing more and nothing less than those two goals is ever the intent of either plan.

Your WW is VERY likely to wake up one morning and realizing what she has done will hit her like a ton of bricks. She will be devastated by that reality and if she thinks of you as her rescuer, she will come to you. IF her last memory of you is you saying "If you do ____, I will never take you back..."; guess what she will do... (Hint: It won't be call you for help.)

Time to decide if you want your marriage or instant resolution.

JMO and another $.02.

Dam*ed expectations...

Mark

Sir as always you are right. The Plan was to wait 2-3 weeks after she left before going to plan B and only after talking to her again. If WW comes to me to discuss the possibility of R then great but until that time I go with the plan. I pray that the A will end but that's about all I can do, she needs to do the rest.

TMTS,

Have you read Queenie's Memo From God yet?

I would love to see the only follow-up posts be bumps for newbies so I haven't commented there. Queenie, if you're reading, GREAT stuff there.

Mark

Who was it that used to say, do you want to be married or do you want to be right? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hi Mark,

Yes I read the memo and it does help calm down the soul. You are all in my life for a reason and have a plan set up with jennifer for a reason as well, I need to let that play out and show some trust.

Just my perspective ... feel free to disregard, and my guess is, you will, but from the outside looking in, it appears your situation was improving when you were proactive and your WW saw you as a strong confident person. Now that you have got some contrary advice, that you seem to prefer, you have reverted back to inaction in "wait and see" mode, and your position has suffered.

Let me be the 1st to say that "it's your life", and you should do what you feel is right after sifting through all of the advice you are receiving. Different people/personalities handle situations differently with a wide range of effectiveness. So my opinion is worth no more, possibly even less, than some you are receiving, and none of them are as meaningful as your own.

Good Luck to you in your efforts.

MR, please keep in mind that as far as my position is I really don't think it has suffered. Everything I am talking about is all in the background and as far as WW is concerned it's Plan a all the way. As you've probably noticed my issue is expectations, and when I got word that OM was involve with someone else well if anything I ramped up my Plan A, truth is I’ve done more for the Plan since Friday then I have before. All this pressure is coming to her from outside source of heir’s, and I'm just lucky enough that they don't agree with what she is doing. If I look only at her actions I'm not doing bad, because one of the big things she wanted before she moved was an LSA, and she has held back on talking to me about it since Sunday, it's even got the mediator baffled.

So as freaked out and out of control I sound right now, the situation has improved allot in the last few day, from what we can tell he has moved on, and she is suspicious of him now. So this has her thinking, which is all I can hope for. Hey who knows she might get out there be as lonely as he!! And have the fog slowly lift.

My purpose today is simple. If this POS does decide to let her know (Of which there isn't even any guarantees of that), it has to make her reassess. That is all, if she still decides to go then she goes. I plan A for 2-3 weeks, Talk to Jennifer then go to a dark Plan B.

There is no way I would show her this whiny pathetic side.

Your input is always appreciated MR.

Oh great...I guess that makes US the lucky ones!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> Hahahahaha...now you know I'm just teasin ya! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> But sheesh, 84 pages and 1107 posts...you ARE a needy little thing aren't ya! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Sorry...thought you could use a little laugh...even if it was at your expense (hehehe) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />