You must speak to them both RIGHT NOW...every moment that passes is more time for her to spin the story. Tell your immediate family also...anyone that you want to hear your side before they hear hers.

But, don't be fooled by these "Here's some paperwork from my L, fill it out please" techniques. She could just be blowing smoke. If she was serious, she would just have you served.

You are right in what you plan to tell her...hand her the ppwk right back..."No thanks!"

LUCK!!!!

Well, last night was interesting to say the least.

I got home and told WW that I wasn't going to fill out the papers. She asked why not? I told her that I was not going to contribute to something that does not have anyone's best interest involved. I also said if she wants to file for D I can't stop her, but I would just get a lawyer and the lawyers can fight it out. But if you want to discuss saving our marriage, I'm all ears.

Well, that set her off. "that's not going to happen" WW said. I asked her "why wouldn't you want to work on it?" WW said "after that stunt you pulled this weekend, I will NEVER work on it with you". I asked her what stunt she was referring to? She said "you know damn well what stunt I'm talking about!" So I said "if you are talking about me telling OMW about your STD, I didn't tell her to hurt you, but told her so she could make informed decisions about her life". WW says (and this is classic wayward babble) "You put a knife into my core".

Uhhh....excuse me? You have an affair for almost a year and don't tell OM about your STD and I'm the one putting a knife in you? I almost laughed out loud right there.

So I continued, "you will not believe this, but I think OM should have had the right to make that same decision, but you didn't give him that chance did you?" WW says "I told him". I said, "that's not what you told me last Tues". Yes I did, no you didn't went back and forth a couple times. So I said to WW, "I thought the A was over and you were only asking for divorce because you were never happy in our marriage and you wanted to move on? If the A is over, why do you care if OM and OMW know about the STD?"

WW looked at me and said "I'm not talking to you!" and went outside to smoke. So I said goodnight and went to bed.

I guess when OM found out about the STD last weekend and WW had never told him about it he had a problem with it. Can't imagine why, can you? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> Anyway, I guess there's been a little conflict injected into the romance of the century huh?

Don't know what all this means going forward. I'm assuming she may threaten me with D more, but I'm not biting. I would imagine that even if the A was over in OM's mind, it wasn't in WW's mind and her trying to get me to go along with a "civil" divorce was so she could show her "love" to OM. I'm guessing he doesn't want that kind of love anymore. I guess we'll see if the real depression of WD comes along now. Funny thing is, Monday night when I got home from work WW was sitting on the couch and I asked her if she needed anything from the store and I could tell she was crying, so maybe WD is setting in for real this time.

We shall see.

Always sad to see trouble in paradise, isn't it? :P Good work.

What's your plan moving forward? How long do you intend to let her play the victim?

Not exactly sure on the plan forward at this point TYK. I really want to tell the kids, but I think I'll take SH's advise and not say anything to them until we see if we are going to separate or not. He has advised me to not tell them until that happens.

Last night was kind of wierd. WW wasn't near as angry as she was Tue night. She actually said a couple words to me. Not like a normal conversation, but she did say a couple things (comments on a T.V. show). Most of the night though she was sitting on the couch with her head down, even when she was watching T.V. Don't know what that means, if anything, but I'm done trying to figure it out.

I think for now I'll just play it by ear and see what happens. Friday she's taking DS15 to little sibs weekend at DS19's college. We'll see if she comes home or not after dropping him off.

Traded emails with OMW yesterday and she said OM is starting to do the things she's requested of him to make their marriage work. She's not convinced he's really changed, but she's kind of hopeful. She also said she had some information for me that she plans on telling me today, so I'm kind of curious what that is.

I'll share that info when I get it if it's worth anything.

Hi Hope!

I think she is deep in WD and depression. Be kind to her. I'll bet she starts to crack a little if you do. You don't have to gush, but just start telling her every morning how pretty she looks. If she does break down a little or cry, tell her you cherish her and your M and will help her fall in love with you again.

I know it's been a very long, painful journey, but don't give up yet! This is when her walls should start to come down a little at a time.

I wish you all the best!

Thanks LaLa. I'm not counting on anything. Just expecting to be served D papers any day. I guess if I keep thinking that I'll be plesantly surprised if anything else happens.

I'm going to not say too much for the next day or so unless she initiates it. If she's in WD, it is very early as I know by her anger Tuesday night (from the STD discussion) that the A hadn't ended in her mind until this past weekend (and that's if she's really figured it out this time).

I'm not going to gush or anything for a while. If I did it would be a LB for her as she would think I'm gloating over OM dumping her (but again, I'm not counting on that even being the case just yet).

It was just weird last night. You know how you can tell when someone wants to say something to you, but they are either scared or don't know how to start? That's the impression I got with her. Of course, it could be to tell me she's serving me with D papers, but it just seemed different to me. It's been a while since she could even stand to be in the same room with me and last night she didn't make any efforts to get away from me and actually sat in the family room and watched T.V. while I read a book.

Like I said, I'm not counting on anything. I've had my hopes dashed too many times.

H4U:

If your wife had just lost her dog that she owned for 10 years, and was hurting like this, what would you do?

Even if you HATED the mangy nasty thing?

Sit on the other end of the couch and read a magazine?

Float thru your house humming the "Wicked Witch is Dead!"?

I KNOW your W was in an A. And that hurts you lots. But your W is in pain as well.

You DO NOT like the SOURCE of the pain, and thats ok.

But if YOUR not seen as someone that she can confide/care for/sooth some of her pain, and be an alternative, then the rest of recovery is going to really be difficult for you.

Because recovery, is ALOT harder than busting up the A.

Killing the A is JUST THAT. Killing it. Working thru all the issues that resulted in one of the spouses having an affair, takes WORK. And HONESTY.

She MAY have been sitting on that couch thinking about telling you all kinds of things. And YOU KNEW she was in pain.

She MAY have been thinking: "Here I am in all this pain, OM would be comforting me thru this, and H4U sits over there and ignores me."

Your dealing with an ALien. Someone who isn't YOUR W. Her body is there, but it is occupied by something alien. Now, that kernal of the good W you married, and have been fighting to GET BACK, is still in there, and may be fighting to get rid of the alien. But the Alien is strong.

You need to make sure that you feed SOMETHING to the W that is trying to fight her way out.

Say this to her tonight in the most tender manner you can get, if the same sitch you described plays out: "W, I want to help you with the hurt that you are feeling." "I'm not sure how to fix it, but I'm willing to help you thru it."

Do NOT expect her to fall into your arms, with a "Finally!"

DO NOT expect her to to respond kindly.

She may even react with venom. Because YOU are supposed to HATE her. Look what shes DONE!

You simply state that your here to help her thru this, in sickness and health, and then you can look her in the eye, if you can, and leave the room if she is evil to you.

You need to comfort your W.

Some here will recommend that you shouldn't have to listen to your W as she talks about her "perfect OM" But, you have to show her that you ARE willing to listen, and to become the man that she married.

IT's a tough place to be, but you have to be there for her.

BobPure calls it a "hero's Gig", and it is.

LG

Ok LG, help me out here. I completely agree with what you have said, but how do I get her to begin to open up to me when the last thing she has said to me is she wants a D and will "never try to work it out with you"?

I've left her cards that tell her I'm here for her. I've left her notes telling her I'm thinking of her. Last Tuesday I told her I knew what she was going through was difficult and I'd be with her the whole way and she said "I'm never going to give you a chance" and then said she wanted a D.

I've listened to her tell me how wonderful OM is, not by her saying it exactly, but by her telling me all that is wrong with me (hence all that is right with OM) and I've reacted to that by saying "I understand the issues you have with me and I'm trying to do my best to make those changes".

I've repeatedly told her there is nothing that has gone on that we can't work through if we both put our minds to it, and all I get is "I'm not going to try".

So I've kind of been doing a modified 180. Maybe I'm wrong and will pay for it with her filing for D. But I'm just not sure what else I can do until she gives me an opening.

H4U:

Then keep doing it.

From your description of the evening, I wasn't sure what you might have done. And it seemed that you stayed distant. Now is the time to be more available.

Your planting seeds here. Your reinforcing your desire to have a future with her.

On the other hand, OM seems to be running away.

So, while WW and W struggle, your showing W the way home. Which helps her get stronger in that fight with WW

That's all.

Just keep doing it.

She WILL see your changes, and it blows up all her reasons for hating you.

Just keep doing it.

LG

Hope,

Lg is knows what he is saying. The fact that I didn't give up was one of the main factors that got my W into wanting to reconcile, that and she said that she did see me meet her missing needs. So don't throw in the towel yet.

Thanks LG, GH. I'm not giving up yet. A few weeks ago SH and I had decided it was time for plan B, but after the events of this past week, I think that the A may finally be over in WW's mind, so now I plan on waiting it out for a while to see if she de-fogs.

I had thought the A was over before, and I think in OM's mind it is, but prior to last weekend and OMW and OM finding out about WW's STD, I think I've realized WW was hanging on to hope that if she divorced me that OM and her would be able to get together, so in her mind the A wasn't over. Now that (I'm assuming based on WW's angry reaction to that news) OM told WW off after the STD exposure that maybe now she gets that OM isn't interested anymore.

Could be wrong. WW still may push the D train and I'm kind of thinking along those lines so if anything happens other than that it will be a pleasant surprise.

So.....I'm going to keep at the plan A stuff. Meet the needs she'll let me. Continue to remind her that we could be great together if she'd give us a chance. NO LB's. See if she begins to clear her head some.

Last night was another example of that possibility (and I repeat possibility, but not counting on it). WW talked to me some. Not much, but some. No anger. She actually did something nice for me. Might not seem like much, but it's a start. I was looking for something to eat and she came out into the kitchen and said "I brought pizza home from work if you want it". Holy crap. She made a nice gesture towards me? I did my best to show her my appreciation without being too over the top. Most of the evening we watched T.V. with DS15. Some nice conversations. Nothing directly between WW and myself, but group type conversations. And it was nice.

Again, I just keep the thought that I'll be getting served soon and anything other than that is gravy. If I do get served I'll be nice about separating stuff and then a couple weeks into the separation, plan B and we'll see where that goes.

Nothing much to say. WW came home Friday night from dropping DS15 off at little sibs weekend and did say a couple words to me.

Yesterday was just weird. Complete silent treatment from WW for about the first 2 hours she was up. Then as I was getting ready to go to the grocery she brought up birthday presents for DS15 (bday in Apr). I thought that was kind of weird. She then made a point of showing me in a recipe book something she was going to make for DS19 so I could take it to him today when I go pick up DS15. Talked about things on the grocery list. It was just weird.

Later in the afternoon I told her I was going to go get something to eat at our favorite restaurant and asked if she wanted to go along. I thought for a minute she was going to agree to go along. She hesitated and then said "no I'll be ok". I then asked if she wanted me to bring her something home? Again she thought about it and then said no.

So I went, and brought her something home anyway. She didn't eat it last night. We'll see if she eats it while I'm gone today. Anyway, when I got home it seemed like she had taken a down turn in her mood. She didn't say a word to me the rest of the night.

Not getting any hopes up. I just keep thinking every time we're in the room together I'll get the "my lawyer is preparing the D papers and you'll get them soon" speech, and anything else is gravy.

Got to think about V day. I think I'll see how she is the next few days before deciding what to get her. Maybe just a card or maybe flowers, depending. Friday DS15 and I are going to the UP of Mich for the long weekend. Maybe 4 days by herself will give her the time (and courage) to figure things out. But not counting on it. For all I know she'll make a last desperate attempt to go see OM....but at this point I'm not sure I care...

Hi Hope
For V day, you need to make it much more personal. Not big but something pnly you know she likes. In my DWs case is little stuff animals. I got her this stuffed cat and she looks at it like something that helped her come out of the fog. The flowers and card thing can br done by a neghbor, you need to do something specifically for her.

Thanks TMTS. Still have to think on the V day thing. I'll see how the next couple of days go before deciding.

Yesterday was another encouraging day, but again just keeping with my thoughts that WW will be hitting me with D papers sometime soon.

WW got up yesterday and I told her that the desert she had made for me to take to DS19 looked good. She replies "make sure you get a piece for yourself before you leave his school". WTF? Another instance of WW thinking of me? WW then proceeds to tell me both DS's called her late Sat night all excited about the evening they had had together. WW thought DS15 sounded like he had been to a college party. DS19's school is a noted party school (but DS19 doesn't drink, smoke, nothing, where did he come from?). Any way, we had a nice conversation about that.

Went to get DS15, took both DS's to lunch, had a nice day. Got home and WW had fixed a big pot of my favorite soup. She asked if I wanted some, but I was too full from lunch so I politely told her that. I told her the desert she made for DS19 was as good as it looked. She then went to work and made another of the same desert for "us". WTF#2?

While we were at DS19's school we stopped at a bookstore and bought DS15 and myself tee shirts. While there I spotted a lounge pant/top thingie that I thought would look cute on WW. So I got it also. Later in the evening I gave it to her. She asked what it was and I told her that I saw it in the bookstore and thought it was cute so I bought it for her. She looked at it and thought it was cute also and "thanked" me for it. WTF#3?

The rest of the evening we did have a couple of small talk conversations, which was nice. This morning DS15's school was cancelled because of the extreme wind chill. When I went downstairs I asked if WW had seen school was closed and she replied that the school had been closed before she went to sleep the night before (and in a totally nice tone as opposed to the tone she used with me a week or so ago when I asked her the same thing about another snow/ice day). WTF#4?

I guess I'm just going to enjoy the relative peace and quiet that is going on now and not count on it meaning anything. Still expecting the D train to show up and if it doesn't I'll be pleasantly surprised.

My WW went through these phases of "normal and nice" as well. I suspect its guilt more than anything.

Thanks TYK. Is it guilt and possibly her figuring out what a loser OM is/was and seeing me in a different light? Or is it her just being nice to me before the D papers?

As best I can determine there has been no physical contact since Dec 8. There has been phone/email/IM contact since, but last week I'm assuming OM showed his true colors with the STD exposure. Did that wake her up? Has physical NC followed by limited phone/email/IM contact been enough for her to begin getting through WD? I have caught her crying/sniffling some lately. When it's quiet and we're watching T.V. she's spending a lot of the time with her head down, playing with her hair (which she does when she thinks) or just staring at the floor, couch etc.

Trying not to analyze. Trying to just be the best I can be and count on the D papers and if it doesn't happen, great. I just hate limbo land!

To me, it sounds like she is in total conflict. WD and the realization that things have ended between her and the OM, plus it is probably sinking in that you are NOT the monster she has made you out to be in her wayward mind.

Keep things light and happy and keep up the GREAT Plan A. You are doing such a great job, Hope!! I am praying that you are really starting to crack that wayward fog. This is a crucial time when you must be a ROCK with your poker face and keep your R and A talks at bay and let her work through this. Be there for her...have you touched he lately? Small shoulder squeezes, rub her back or arm when you are speaking to her...very small gestures, but important! If she pulls away, then stop them for a while...but you are getting to the point where I don't think she will pull away.

Good luck, Hope!

Thanks LaLa. I agree it sounds like she's in total conflict, but I'm not counting on it. Just keeping my "the D papers are coming" attitude and everything else is gravy.

WW was back to one word answers last night. Not angry, but she was definitely not in the same mood as the weekend. I think I've mentioned this before, but I know going to work, where the A began has to be a major trigger for her at times. Plus she doesn't like her job at all. I've seen a pattern that during the week she's like she was last night but then by later on Fridays or on Sat and Sun her moods seem better. If the opportunity comes up I'm going to see what she thinks about getting a transfer back to our hometown. I talked to my boss a couple weeks ago and he said the job that I would really like in the Corporate office should be coming open in the next 6 months so if I'm interested he can see if he can make that happen. It would be a promotion for me and if we moved back WW would probably get promoted also, and to a job she would like more.

Had a pretty bad trigger this morning that I'm trying to work through. I was looking for some dental floss and saw in "her" bathroom drawer some makeup brush thingie that has body glitter in the handle. It was called "Seductive" something. Man, that was a bad thing to see. Haven't really had a bad trigger in about 2 weeks, so today is going to be fun. Guess I'll throw myself into work to try and get away from it.

Don't know if I mentioned this before or not, but I saw yesterday where WW had deleted her last contact number for OM that she had in her cell phone. After exposure day in Nov WW had deleted most of OM's contact info, but had moved his "affairphone" number to another name in her contact list. Well, that number is now erased also. So that's good.

I shoveled the driveway this morning before I left (we had about 2" of snow with more on the way). Hoping she'll take notice that I'm there taking care of her where OM cut and ran as soon as things got a little unpleasant for him.

I like your idea about the little shoulder squeezes. I had been doing those up til a couple weeks ago (when she first said the D word). I've been looking for a time to start doing that again, but just haven't had a good opportunity, but it's definitely going to start happening soon.

OMG what a POS OM is. OMW just called me. She does taxes for people on the side. She has been preparing the taxes of a co-worker. During the process she needed some info from him so she sent him a few TM's to get that info. OM looked at her cell phone website and started accusing her of sleeping with the guy.

OMW is a total wreck. I could hardly understand her half the time she is so upset. OMW says I wouldn't believe the things OM is saying to her. The nastiest stuff you've ever heard. And this from a POS that has had at least 4 A's on her and probably more.

I can't believe my marriage may end over a low down piece of crap like this. Can someone fill me in? How in the world can a WW get wrapped up with a POS like this?

Ok, sorry to vent. I just sit here in stunned silence over how my life is turning out. How can we go from one year ago the happiest couple around to where we are now, all over this piece of work? Doesn't help that I'm dealing with my own trigger today. I thought I was getting through it, but this call just brought it all flooding back.

OMW says she's going to forward me the emails/TM's from him. I plan on keeping them and showing WW if she does file for D. Don't really care if they're over or not. I just want her to see the POS that she thinks is her "soulmate".

H4U:

Stay off the phone with OMW. If you can confirm NC with her, leave it at that.

You may become her lifeline indirectly.

AND THAT WILL GET BACK TO YOUR WW.

And you will LOSE the moral high ground that you have worked so hard to protect.

You KNOW what OM is.

Soon, WW will see his true colors. And you will see many changes in her.

LG