I hear what you are saying TYK. And maybe you're right. But at this point I'm willing to listen to what SH has said about WD and give her some time and space to see if she continues to respond.

Are WW and OM putting the A on hold for a bit? I seriously doubt it, but maybe I'm wrong. OM is trying to do everything he can to make his marriage work. WW was LIVID that I exposed her STD to OM. OMW has told me a few things recently that make me think maybe OM has found his next target in his new hometown, so why would he want to get back together with someone who is so much trouble AND has an STD? Why would he want to jump into another relationship with WW when it's obvious he likes being a player and doing whatever he wants with whomever he wants?

I just keep going back to what SH says. WD stinks. Worst part is usually 3-6 weeks. Fully de-fog takes sometimes as long as 6 months or maybe longer.

Trust me, I've gotten to a point where I'm ok if I HAVE to risk losing the marriage in order to recover it. Last night I was ready to walk out. But I really think I'm going to give her the time to come to grips with the A ending and see what happens.

Sounds like you have a roommate for the next two plus years. But on the other hand it gives you two years to work thru her withdrawal and get her to want to re-commit. Possible exposure to the kids/family and life in the dating world with a STD cn be strong motivating factors in her trying to repair the marriage.

H4U:

Sounds like you are making progress.

Yes, she is still in Withdrawal.

You should still be working with SH. So far, it seems to have worked.

If your speed is working, then stay with it.

I would tend to increase my time with her. It made all the difference in the world during my withdrawal. My BS was at my side helping me thru. Be sure she sees that.

Drive with her for long distances. Maybe you can't always, but silence in the car with you next to her, is WAY more helpful to your recovery than her thinking for 2.5 hours that this is the way to OM's love shack. Really.

Remember, the goal is recovery. It takes time. And is harder then ending the affair.

LG

Thanks LG. I was hoping you would respond. I'm glad to see someone agrees that WW is in WD and will just take her some time to get through it.

I had almost given up on the MB forums (not SH, I'm calling him today to set up an appt) because it seems most of the comments I was getting were to tell her to [censored] or get off the pot when I am doing my best to follow the MB principles.

End the affair, check.
Do what ever I can to stay sane while she goes through WD, check.
Give her the time and space she needs, check.
Work on myself so I'm ok, with or without her, check.

I've almost been doing a mini plan B while still in the house and when I started doing that it seems like that is when she started to respond.

Last night WW was not feeling well. Had some dental work done on an old root canal tooth and had a sore throat so I took DS19 and one of his friends from College out to dinner. When I got back I talked to WW a little, but with her not feeling well, I pretty much left her alone.

LG, Help me out. Am I missing something in that 7 weeks ago WW was saying she wanted a divorce "it's what I want" to now saying she's staying for "at least" two years isn't progress? I mean, if the affair only ended in her mind 7 weeks ago, I shouldn't be expecting her to be jumping up and down telling me how wonderful I am and how she's going to love me forever should I?

I kind of get the impression from being around her that she's kind of taking a "we'll see how it goes for now" position. Only 7 weeks post A, isn't that an improvement from "I want a divorce" just a short time ago?

H4U:

What are YOU doing?

Since 7 weeks ago she stated she wanted a Divorce, and NOW she wants to wait 2 years, to "see how it goes"

What are YOU doing?

You can WAIT for her. SHE has SO MUCH more to work thru than you do.

HOW could she have done this.
IS H4U going to be the guy he has been for the past 6 months?
HOW can I face my children when I tell them what was going on?
HOW can I make this up for H4U?
CAN H4U ever forgive me?
CAN I ever forgive myself?

You have already started down this path. You have SH giving you advice and whatever you can pick up off these boards for assistance. That puts you WAY ahead. There is MUCH work to be done.

It would be great if she had her ephipany moment and jumped into your arms saying your the "greatest!"

That still has to come. And it won't be an ephipany moment, but a series of small changes in perspective.

I would like to ask, your WW was ill? Not feeling well? And you leave the house with the boys and then ignore her when you got home.

Where's the Plan A in that? Maybe your description was brief and you offered various things and she declined and you left her alone. That's cool, in that case. You were not going to force yourself on to her at that point.

However, EVERY woman wants to be treated when she is ill, like she would take care of someone who she cared about. Meaning, IF your DS's were ill, she would be making them as comfortable as possible, and making sure that they had whatever they needed. Even if they were reticient to accept that help. She was showing her CARE at that point. So what did you do? You may have missed an excellent Plan A opportunity.

There are time we just have to put it out there, that us GUYS do CARE, and we want to help you get better. You MAY be the last person she wants helping her. Withdrawal does that, but she remembers, and KNOWS who is still there for her.

LG

LG, Man you keep me on my toes.

WW sent me an email yesterday saying she had told the kids we'd take them out to dinner last night but she had a dental appt and didn't think she'd want to eat with her mouth numb. She also said she wasn't feeling that well. I asked her if she wanted me to just pick something up and bring it home or if there was anything she needed? She replied no, that it was just a sore throat, no big deal. So I took the kids (she wasn't even home from the dentist when we left). And I didn't really ignore her when I got home. I sat down and talked to her for a bit. Asked how she was feeling. Was there anything she needed. But she was watching American Idol and I just HAD to leave the room. This morning I asked her how she was feeling etc before I left for work. And I don't remember if I said this in my previous post, but I called WW when she was on her way to work to warn her about the deer being out moving this morning. Between myself and 3 other guys who work for me there was one hit deer and at least 12 other almost deer/vehicle collisions. So when I called to warn her to watch out she was very plesant and thanked me and warmly said good by when I told her I'd see her tonight.

Honestly, for the last 4 months, everytime there's been an opportunity for her to spend any time with me she's done her best to avoid it. Like my birthday, she did go out and when I thanked her for going she said "I only did it for DS15". And a couple weeks ago I came home from work and asked her if she'd eaten yet? And she replied "I'm not hungry". So I ran down to Subway and when I got back she was already warming up food for herself.

What I've been doing the last month or so is give her the opportunity to do something with me and if she says no, I do it anyway. And sometimes I don't even ask if she wants to go, I just say I'm going out and I'll be back later. And THIS is what I think she's been responding to. My friend D thinks she's realizing OM dumped her and when I do my thing without her (whether I ask her to go or not) D is convinced WW is realizing she may lose us both and that's why she is responding.

When she responds to me I do my best plan A (like now since she is beginning to respond to me again after her last pullback). Engage her, continue to do things around the house, LISTEN while looking her directly in the eyes. VALIDATE everything she says. But when she pulls back some, I return to my mini Plan B and a day or so later she starts re-engaging with me. And I may be totally mis-reading her, but there are a whole bunch of little things that she's doing now that lead me to believe she's thinking more about US. And it feels good.

Ok guys, especially TYK, you were right. I guess WW's mood change a couple weeks ago was because OMW decided she was done and was going to file for D so guess who's back now?

Don't want to go into the whole thing, but basically I saw some TM's between WW and a GF. GF asked WW "what was his excuse for not coming up yesterday (Sat)?" WW replied that OMW has a lawyer's appt this week and OM didn't want to add fuel to the fire. GF replied "understandable, but frustrating". Boy, don't you just love those enabling friends.

So now I'm going to do as I should have done a long time ago. Here's my list. Let me know if I'm missing anything.

- Open new checking acct, move money from joint acct to it.
- Switch my direct deposit to new acct.
- Switch the one auto withdrawal to new acct.
- Tell kids (more discussion in a bit).
- Cancel joint CC's.
- Talk to DS15's school to have them keep an eye on him after I tell them the story. Find a counselor for him through my work EAP.
- Get a hold of DS19's school and find out about counseling for him there.

Now a couple questions. I'm thinking of sending OM a text msg saying he's going to be the first one on the witness stand in our D hearing. Also that I've told the kids all about him so if he thinks it's going to be one big happy family, think again. Good idea or not?

I know I'm going to tell the kids before I tell WW to move out. But my dilema is that DS15's school has been closed due to flooding for 2 weeks and will be closed maybe the rest of this week and we're supposed to get more rain this week. I don't want to leave DS15 alone during the day after I tell him, so do I wait until this weekend to tell them so I can take vacation next week if I need to? The issue with this is, I emailed and then talked to OMW last night and confirmed some things with her and she said something to OM about knowing they were planning on getting together before she read my email saying to not say anything to OM yet. So now, WW will know this morning when she gets to work that I know they were planning a get together that OM cancelled. And that gives me some issues with waiting until the weekend to tell the kids.

I kind of feel like OM is still playing WW and she just doesn't get it. I feel like he already has another affairee lined up in his new hometown and just gets off on WW still pursuing him. Not that that changes ANYTHING in what I'm doing. I'm sure WW told him they could get together Sat and I'd never know so why would he care that OMW was going to see a lawyer this week? But I really don't care what his intentions are. WW is obviously still addicted and is probably the one doing the pursuing.

Anyway, I've had enough. Thought WW's mood change was because she was starting to get through WD, but obviously not.

Comments please?

Hope, sorry that this happened.
One thing that you have not talked about. Are you going to expose to your company your WW and the OM. If he is a contractor the company needs to know.

Just a thought.

AF

Been mulling that one over AF. There's pluses and minuses to exposing to our company.

I'm thinking I might talk to a couple of higher up's that I know to get their opinion before I go there.

I don't necessarily want WW losing her job, but I would love to put a little hitch in OM's giddy up. Just need to find out if there's a way I can make his life uncomfortable without WW losing her job.

I kind of think that exposing to the kids and her mom, which I plan on doing this weekend, will probably be enough to end it, but at this point I don't know if I care enough that if she wants to make it work I would consider it. If I do there will be a list of conditions she MUST follow to even consider it. And if exposing to the kids and MIL works AND IF I decide to give us a chance IF she comes back, then her losing her job would be bad.

Guess I should have went to plan B a while ago. Seems like the old LB is running on empty!

Been mulling that one over AF. There's pluses and minuses to exposing to our company.

I'm thinking I might talk to a couple of higher up's that I know to get their opinion before I go there.

I don't necessarily want WW losing her job, but I would love to put a little hitch in OM's giddy up. Just need to find out if there's a way I can make his life uncomfortable without WW losing her job.

I kind of think that exposing to the kids and her mom, which I plan on doing this weekend, will probably be enough to end it, but at this point I don't know if I care enough that if she wants to make it work I would consider it. If I do there will be a list of conditions she MUST follow to even consider it. And if exposing to the kids and MIL works AND IF I decide to give us a chance IF she comes back, then her losing her job would be bad.

Guess I should have went to plan B a while ago. Seems like the old LB is running on empty!

Ok, just talked to OMW and have some more details to share.

I talked to OMW last night and told her the story. She finally got a hold of OM and asked him if he had something to tell her? He said no. This went back and forth a few times. Finally she said, could you tell me how someone in (my hometown) knows I have an appt with an attny this week. OM denies knowing how someone would know that multiple times. So OMW told him to quit f-ing lying to her. OMW then said to him "Could you tell me why someone in (my hometown) was under the impression that you were coming up there this weekend?" He yelled at her he didn't have any idea and he wasn't coming up here.

So OMW started questioning him why OM and WW were still talking. He said, it's just email. OMW said "apparently she thinks it's more because she thought you were coming up there this weekend". He said it's just email talk. OMW said why have you been lying to me since Dec saying you weren't talking to her then? He said it's just email. OMW said even if it's only email you're still having an affair with her. Of course he denied that.

So now is when it get's good. OMW had a missed call on her cell yesterday and it was from OM's area code. OMW called him and asked why she was getting a call from his area? OM about lost it. WHAT NUMBER IS IT? WHO IS IT? OMW said she couldn't see the number but was going to call it and see who it was. She hung up and called the number. It was OM's landlord, but she called him back and asked him why a woman answered the phone. He went into panic mode again about who it was and he had no idea who would be calling her etc.

So....doesn't change my plans at all, but it's interesting that OM probably already has another one on the hook and is stringing WW along, possibly to use her when he can find time.

And WW is going to throw away everything for this POS. It's just stunning. It's going to be fun at home tonight as I'm sure OM sent WW an email or called her to let her know that I knew about their plans this weekend. Should be fun. Am I demented that I'm sitting here with a smile on my face?

Gonna really have to think about that exposure to work thing.

Edited to add: Have an appt with SH Wed morning.

Well, last night was an anti-climax. WW didn't say a word to me and I didn't say a word to her. And I'm glad, because I don't want to get into any discussion that I might tip my hand as to what I am going to do.

You should have seen WW sitting on the couch, almost squirming at the silence. She had her head buried in a couple of catelogs and would not look up even when DS15 was in his best mood in a long time.

And that's the part that kills me, knowing that he's recovered from her weekend trips to see OM and the tension that was in the house at that time, but come this weekend, he's going to have his life shattered, but she's the one who is doing this, not me and the kids deserve to know what's going on in their lives.

Looking forward to talking to SH tomorrow. My only real question for him is do I lay down the boundaries with WW before or after I tell the kids?

Too Funny. OMW just sent me a copy of an email she sent WW.

It said: WW, Up until very recently things between OM and I were better than they have been in years. Then suddenly something seemed odd. I wasn't sure what, but it didn't take me long to find out you two have been talking again.(Maybe it never really stopped). I just think you both are very selfish people. You don't care much about the families that are destoyed or the people who get hurt because of what ya'll have done. I'm not sure what OM has told you about us or what you two may have planned this past weekend or any other time but I do know you can have him. I hope he can make you happy. I can assure you the little time you have spent with him doesn't give you a clue of who he really is.

I know contacting the OP generally doesn't accomplish anything, and I know this will have no affect on WW, but it is good that WW gets to read that she and OM are destroying two families and hurting how many people from someone other than myself. WW doesn't hear a thing I say, maybe there's a chance (however small) that she will hear what OMW says.

Countdown to more exposure, 4 days.

Ok, Talked with SH. I'm going to send WW a letter saying sh*t or get off the pot. Comments on the letter please.


WW

This is the hardest thing I’ve ever written.

I love you. The day we were married was the happiest day of my life. You’ve given me two wonderful sons who are the joy of my life.

I know if we put our minds to it we could have a future marriage where we are both extremely happy, both for ourselves and our kids, but I can’t do it alone. And I can’t continue to live the way we are.

I guess what I’m trying to say is that you know I still believe we could have a wonderful marriage, but I can’t do it alone and if you’re not willing to try, we need to separate. You know what I would like to do, but I can’t force you to do anything you don’t want to do. But we’re at a crossroads and I’m running out of energy fighting for our marriage.

I know I can’t make your decisions for you, but I know I can’t continue to live with you while you’re not committed to working on our marriage and continue to see and communicate with OM.

I want to dance with the mother of our children at their weddings. Together I want to spoil our grandkids to death. I want to grow old with you. I want to have a wonderful, happy, fulfilling life with you, but I can’t do it alone.

I love you,


SH also told me that this affair will crumble in no time with OM being the player he is. He said WW knows what she's giving up for the loser and there's no way he'll measure up to her expectations and it'll fall apart. He also told me if I could hang on a while longer it was probably falling apart right now, but I told him I couldn't do that, I needed something to happen, one way or another. SH also said to not tell the kids yet as sometimes he's seen that when it comes right down to it, the WW will not go through with the separation and if I can avoid telling the kids, great. But if she does insist on moving out, then tell them. Kind of like keeping that last trick in my back pocket.


Anyway, Let me know what you think of the letter.

Thanks

H4U

Hopefor,

What is the purpose of the letter??? It is not very clear. It is also a bit redundant.
This three sentences/paragraphs say about the same thing. But you don't make it clear what you are going to do, or why you are sending this letter. Don't make her guess and don't make it ambiguous.

Just thoughts.

JL

Thanks JL. I thought the same thing after I read it.

First paragraph says we can't continue to live this way. In the second paragraph it says if she's not willing to try to work on the marriage we need to separate.

So do I need to go into more detail? Just askin? I'll edit to remove some of the redundancy.

Thanks for the comments.

I don't see a plan.

What happens if she ignores your letter?

What happens if you get no response?

You're trying to poke her into making a choice. I think that is risky, because she will try not to make a choice.

I think you need to decide for yourself what happens next. And take whatever actions that requires. Your letter should inform her of what you decide.

I'm not sure I follow Lexxxy.

If she ignores the letter I'll ask her if she read it. Same for the no response.

What should I say more than if you continue to be involved with OM we need to separate?

SH advised me to not get too demanding in the letter because he's sure the A will end almost immediately if she moves out. And he wants me to show her the road home. He wanted me to get it in there that we could have a great marriage if she'd end it with OM and work on our marriage, so I'm trying to not be too unemotional.

Have I not done that?

Hopefor,

I don't think the letter did/does what you think. Lexxxy is right I think.

Let me try and state her point from my point of view.

1. You are tired.
2. You cannot continue to deal with OM in your life so separation seems to be the path.
3. You love her, but you are nearing the end.
4. You plans are:
a) ask her to move out and obtain legal separation????
b) go to a strict/modified (due to children) plan B???
c) separate and the seek divorce?????
d) wait for her to respond and completely change her mind???


Now I know the last one was silly, but notice there was no demand of her. You would be telling her what you are going to do UNLESS... unless what??? OM is out of her life? She decides to give the marriage a try???

My thinking is that you are making decisions for yourself based on the data at hand. Only certain actions on her part will change the course of your decisions and they are???

It seems to me this is supposed to be a separation letter with a request that she move out. If that is correct state it, it not state what it is. I think you also want to give her a path back to the marriage, but it is not a demand, it is a path.

Just thoughts. Hope they help.

God Bless,

JL

I guess I don't see where your actions are.

You throw out this ultimatum (sort of)...
"If you don't stop seeing OM we need to separate....."
and then nothing.

Are you expecting her to jump to action because of your letter?
That she will either end the affair and participate in recovery? Or she will get moving on a separation?
I think its more likely she will do NEITHER.

So what are you gonna do about that?
What if she just ignores it?

Then you ASK her about it? Thats not real forceful is it?
Did you read my letter. And she says yep or nope....then more nothing.