But that's only based on the way I'm feeling about my WS! I think, though, that other, wiser people here would agree!

Ron

Thanks, Pom. I needed that. I was actually working on my pbl earlier, but now I don't feel like finishing it. It's supposed to be somewhat of a love letter and you tend to bring the plan FU out of me. lol.

TMTS,
I hear ya and believe me, I'm trying to keep it cool like that. She just doesn't give me a chance. She makes contact with me and shuts it down as soon as I open my mouth. Should I just ignore her all together? I was going to save that for plan B, but she really knows how to back me into a corner. I guess she knows this game better than i do. As for the insurance, I'm still looking for better options.

Ron,
I'm feeling that too. I was just looking at D papers online. It's $299 to file and they even serve it for you.

But to be honest, i just came back from happy hour (stayed a few hours later), so I guess I should sleep on it.

Thanks again for support.

I'm planning to ignore her tomorrow (if she tries to bait me again), so I'll let you know how it goes.

Watch as she goes a little batty as you start to ignore her calls.

She calls, don't pick up.

Pick up every 6 or 7 calls and then talk only briefly as if you're in the middle of something, on the other line, or doing something more important than talking to her.

You're too available.

You're wanting the answers on how to resolve your situation and we're giving you the answer on what works.

You have no way of losing in plan B.

She either wakes up or you get the peace and distance you need to heal, see her for what she is and then move on.

Seriously, you're young. Dating in your thirties is awesome because women are a lot more mature than the immature idiots both men and women tend to be in their 20's.

There is life after WW, especially one who has cheated on you with two men and you have no kids with. If you had kids, I'd encourage you to hang tough, go to plan B and wait for her to return.

But you have no kids. Trust me, as a man who has 3 of them, you've lost nothing. She's done you a favor.

I wouldn't look at my ex twice if it weren't for my kids. She's their mom, though, and I have to deal with her and constantly contemplate the "ideal scenario" that SH always discusses.

You have NO ties to her. Free yourself. Get some confidence.

Watch the movie "Swingers". You're that guy.

You're "So money" and don't even know it!

I take it sending her a Valentine's Day Ecard is not a good idea. Since I'm technically still in plan A (the end of it) I was thinking of doing one last little thing. After that the lights are going to start dimming.

Anyone have any thoughts on that? Or should I just forget what day it is all together?

Thanks,
DM

Sure, send the ecard. She'll get it, think, "Yep, I still got him" and then go [censored] OM2, knowing you're the safety net.

Yeah, keep being a puppy begging for scraps as she feasts and laughs at you.

For God's sakes, man, grow some ba*ls!

This is a 4x8! Get some self respect!

No disrespect intended, but it's hard to break through your fog!

I'm saying this stuff to you as someone who has been in your shoes and did the kind of stupid stuff you propose doing.

I made my ex her favorite breakfast for mother's day, drove 40 minutes to deliver it with a gift, cards, flowers, and a tray so she could be breakfast in bed on mother's day.

I got a text saying thanks and she was back online flirting with men that day. My hopes were that she'd see how much I loved her and what kind of stuff I did for her and have her hopefully remember it down the road and come back to me.

IT DOESN'T WORK!

Nothing you do will wake her up! Why can't you understand this?!

How much louder do we have to say it to you!

GO TO PLAN B! Quit begging for attention you're not going to get. You're like a moth to a flame.

If she texts you a "Happy V-Day" message, don't respond.

Meet her with silence.

What has she done to deserve any love or affection from you? She says "Happy V-Day" to ensure the safety net is there and then goes out with OM2, spends her day with him, probably flirting all day through texts, exchanging cards, and then having a good old romp in the sack while you sit at home wondering if she liked your e-card or you're happy to sit reading your little text message she used to keep you in the picture.

What would you tell a friend of yours in your situation?

WHEW....pom pulled out the BIG GUNS!!! I know that probably hurt to read, DM, but HE IS RIGHT!!!!

Stop living your life in FEAR of what she will do or if what you do will make her come back or push her farther away!!! Human nature, DM...who wants someone clinging and begging them for some attention? NOONE!! People are drawn to strong, confident people. That's a FACT, and your WW is NO different.

I'll tell you what, just try it. Give it 2 weeks...if we are wrong, then fine. If we are right, and she is calling and texting all the time, then do it for another 2 weeks. WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO LOSE!!! (and please don't say your wife, buddy...she's already gone for now)

Hi DM,

I have been following your thread here for a bit and I have to say, you either have a high tolerance for pain or you are completely terrified of being alone. I think you have issues within you that need to seriously straighten out. I am in a similar situation but I don’t ever want to end up like you.

I believe you should use this opportunity to fix yourself. This is the appropriate time for self growth and realization. That way you will never allow yourself to be this pitiful again - with any situation in life. It starts within you my friend.

I am pulling for you here bud. When reading your thread, sometimes it seems that you are finally seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. But then it seems like you run back into the dark part of the tunnel every time your WW calls, texts or IMs. You are getting some good advice here but it seems like you throw it all out the window when she comes around. Seems kind of like a waste. Everyone here in these last few posts are helping you see the light at the end of the tunnel. Why not run to the light? The train has already run you over so what else could you be possibly afraid of? It’s time for a new angle here… the other plans are not working for you. Why not change it up for shts n giggles. What the heck – why not?

I am a professional psychologist by day. Yes, we also are not immune to life’s challenges. However, in following your situation here – I find your postings to be intense and dramatic, your approach is totally nuts and your behavior is quite worrisome. I have spent thousands of dollars in education studying the mind, cognition, affect and behavior. But I still could not avoid a similar situation with my W. That is simply because people just change. We do not control people or their behavior. People change whether we like it or not. Your WW needed to go through this change at some stage in her life. It’s unfortunate that it had to be now.

Your WW sounds like a piece of work. Why on earth you killing yourself to get her back is beyond me. You spin your wheels trying to find answers and analyzing reasons… when sometimes the answer is as simple as she just doesn’t want to be with you anymore. She has changed and grown into something else. Sometimes the answer is very simple. But even simple answers are not what you want to hear. What your WW is experiencing here is a new sense of self. It is as if she just got her drivers license or just turned 21. She is experiencing something so new that she is totally stimulated in every sensorial way. This stimulation lacks you. You need to understand this. You calling her while she is in the midst of this experience is comparable to you being a parent calling your kid at a peek moment with friends, and telling her to come home. That just wouldn’t be “cool” around friends now would it? This is typical in cognitive behavioral studies. Your situation is not in plan A or B context. Too much has happened and the situation is not ideal. It is no wonder things are not working for you. It’s time to look at things at another angle and do something different.

You are constantly texting, IMing, calling her and at times – even drving by her father’s house to see if her car is there??? Holy smokes you have become Captain Desperado here. I’m not sure that you are totally hearing the logical advice given to you here – but are you even listening to yourself anymore?? I mean, have you ever thought that you would one day be saying that you needed to do more to compete with other men in order to gain back your wife’s love?? That is insane! But that’s the reality of it all. This is how far you have come in compromising yourself, your beliefs, your integrity, dignity, and your whole existence. Any woman (including your pos WW) looks for certain qualities in a Man – confidence, respect and strength. Which one of those do you have? …Exactly!

It’s time to finally step back and look at all that you are doing – the dramatic posts, drive-by’s, texts – everything. Take a step back for a minute and take a look at all that. Isn’t this crazy to you? When do you draw the line? How much more?? This is nuts!

Your statement about sending your WW a Valentine greeting is what caused me to fall out of my chair and finally prompt me to chime in here. By saying that statement – I believe you deserve a swift kick to the nuts. Pardon my boldness here but you are not a paying client so I can be a little more candid with you. Which is all the more a good reason you should listen to my free advice – as I do not have to be neutral or formal. I used to sound like you in the beginning of my ((sitch)). I too sounded lost, confused, desperate and pitiful. But I chose to take the high road. When faced with a devastating situation – you can either take the high road or the low road. You, my friend, are somewhere off in the bushes of the low road waiving your arms for help. You need to just dust yourself off and make a move because no one can totally pull you out of this but you. This is crazy.

You choose your destiny. If WW makes you feel hurt and causes pain – why not do something about that? She is the source of your misery – cut it off! This is all your choice. Don’t do it for the sake of being with her for 15 years. That is not relevant. Ask yourself this – what are the 15 years doing for you now?? The answer to this question is also the relevance to the situation – Nothing! That should not be a factor. And you often talk about your WW’s fog and fog babble. Let me tell you something that’s not mentioned here - The fog is immune to no one. Have you ever thought that you too are in a fog? What is the reference to fog anyways? It is the inability to see clearly. The sense of processing has been significantly impaired. Would you say you suffer from this? I hate to tell you but your marriage fell into the fog whether you like it or not. You had no saying but that is truly the case. Only she is living it up in her fog because she can’t see the flipside of what she is doing to you. The fog keeps her from seeing clearly and how her actions impact you. But it doesn’t matter because again – she is feeling a satisfactory sense of stimulation nonetheless. So (((DM))) I think it’s time you pull your head out of your fog and start doing something differently here.

You truly need to do things that are for you. It seems that you are losing her anyways – so why not, for the heck of it, try the approach of cutting her off. Everyone in these last few posts have it right. In my many years of experience, this has been the most effective wake up call for waywards. It seems that you somewhat realize this but you keep resorting back to feeling good when she makes an effort to reach out to you. Thus leads to disappointment when she cuts it short. You need to be consistent with this. The honest to God statistics on this is 8 out of every 10 situations – it has worked. You spin your wheels doing everything possible to get this piece of work back in your life. But you yourself are not sure about the next bridge to cross if she does come back. If she commits to you again, the next bridge you have to cross is seeing if you can even live with her again. I guarantee that once you fall into the routine of life again, this will not go away. It will be different. This is also known in case studies. Very typical metacognitive behavior.

I wish you luck DM. But I feel most of this has to be done by YOU. It is great to vent on here and get different perspectives. This site is like a department store. But just like a department store – you don’t buy every item inside. You pick and choose your preferences. And just like buying a suit at a department store – more often than not you will still need to tailor it to suit your needs. Do the same here. You constantly ask for answers here but what works for others may not work for you. It’s ok to tailor it to you needs. We’re pulling for you ((DM)). Remember that DM does not stand for Door Mat. It does not represent negativity. You are DrowningMAN!!! MAN UP and gain your sense of self back. For God sakes – you are the worse case of a man I have seen in a while. Re-evaluate and start doing more for yourself.

Sorry to be so hard but you need to hear it so you finally listen. You truly deserved this virtual backhand to wake you up. I hope you finally wake up.

Best of luck.

HealOrMoveOn

DM,

Keep in mind I'm speaking to you as a man who behaved exactly as you did. I use to take care of my kids while she got dressed up to go to clubs and flirt with guys. I stayed at home taking care of the kids and writing her letters proclaiming my love while she was out flirting and dancing with other men.

So we've all been there, but you're so deep into a fog and are so afraid because she's all you've known for 15 years (going back to your teen years, aparently) that you're afraid of what life would be like without her.

Trust me, when you have time apart, allow yourself to grieve the loss, separate yourself emotionally and then have YOUR fog clear, you will see the opportunities ahead of you.

They're limitless, especially at your age.

Live well. It's the best revenge.

I'm actually going to THANK YOU for beating the $#!+ out of me right now. I know I needed that and it's what my buddies here have been trying to do, but apparently I can take more kicks in the nuts than I ever thought.
 

I will admit this completely.  It leads back to being an only child, parent's divorced when I was 5 and I was a latch key kid my entire childhood while my mom worked til 2am everynight running a restaurant. My rare encounters with my F have always left me feeling bad, but relieved that I wasn't going to turn out like him.  He's always complaining about how lonely he's been his entire life.  His advice to me on my wedding day was to have lots of kids and a huge family.  Now I find myself in his shoes and headed down the same path and I guess it scares the h3ll out of me. And apparently, YES... I'm a masicist.

Other than that, I've lived a very cake life up to this point and NOTHING has prepared me for this.  She is the one person that filled the emptiness of not having a family.  She's the one person that I invested everything into...she filled every void I had in my entire life and she's been good to me with the exception of making this huge mistake.

I realize that I should probably hate her for what she's done and that I haven't shown an ounce of respect for myself.  Until this happened, I've always had tons of pride and self respect. I've never let anyone push me around or given anyone the ability to hurt me, but I gave all that power to her because I trusted her with my life.

I realized the mistakes I've made from the very beginning of this mess.  That's the one thing you don't have to remind me on.  I was in the worst depression of my life when I found this site and it was the only thing that gave me hope, an actual to plan to follow that got me doing something instead of thinking about how i wanted to die. I followed this while everyone else told me to file for a D, but I didn't listen to them because none of them have been through this..  I do believe in the principles here and know they work for a lot of people, but i've learned that it's definitely not working for me.

So now im back at square one or even worse off than before. I've really $%^$'d myself , but I'm still looking for a plan to keep me sane. I'm not going to lie, despite everything I still love this girl more than anything. This is the blessing and the curse you get from the knowledge you gain here. I'm not ready to FU and file for a D, but I stopped contacting her. I thought that was a good start, but it's hard to get out of the habit of doing something you've forced yourself into for 2 1/2 months. It's all done starting today though. No more plan A. I guess this means it's plan B, but I haven't sent a letter or even know if I should.

I'm still going to need everyone's help, so please don't hesitate to kick my @$$ if i start acting up again.
She just sent me a picture text to tell me it's snowing where she is. "No happy valentine's day," so I'm sure she's fishing (as usual) for me to say it. All she'll get today is silence.

So thanks Heal (or HOMO if you prefer) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />and pom, lala, tmts, ron, everyone else. Have your baseball bats ready and keep it coming.

OMG...can't breath...LMAO!!!!!!!

I didn't even see it! Sorry, Heal (ahem, I think that's what I'll call you)...

Whew, I haven't laughed that hard for a while. **deep breath**

OK! Now, it is a good start. Make sure you take at least one phone call (no texts at all) here and there to tell her hi and be distantly nice, but BUSY! Make sure you say things like "hey, take care of yourself, hon...gotta go!" When you decide to go completely dark, make SURE you send the PBL, OK? It is very important because it lets her know you still do love her, but will no longer put up with her nonsense. It gives a list of things that MUST happen before she will be let back into your life and heart. Then STICK TO IT!!! Once you do this, the first sign of weakness to her and she will know she has you. And then the whole thing has to start all over again...ugh!

I was glad to see your post. I thought maybe we beat on you so hard you put us all on ignore...hehehe.

YOU CAN DO THIS, MAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

HOMO!! Just about spit water on the keyboard!

Stay strong DM, start working on a Plan B letter, just writing it might help you see a little more clearly.

DM..

I'm sorry I had to be so harsh. But I am a firm believer in shaking the sht out of someone to get a point across. And you needed this point to get across to you. You seem like a level headed person. Realizing your mistakes and recognizing situations is a great accomplishment. You have an advantage with that. I am glad my post had this reaction on you. I was hoping it would.

As I mentioned, you should set some short term goals. Like for this week, do not answer her calls. Next week when she comes back - set new goals to deal with that. It will help in focusing on the step by step, day to day situations. Don't try to kill everything with one stone and try to figure out why things happened this way or that. That will drive you nuts as it already has up to this point. Try to incorporate these Plans and methods to your own. Remember, the goal is for you to ultimately feel comfort and have peace of mind.

Don't ever consider the fact that you may live to be alone for the rest of your life. That type of thinking will hinder you and you will be your first obstacle. You have so much ahead. That's nonsense thinking and it's polluting your mind. Just try to step back and look at everything from another angle that someone on the outside could be seeing. You will notice a lot more.

I think you will be fine. You just need to focus on the next move. I see a little spark of awareness in you now so I think you will figure things out. Still vent and ask for suggestions - but do what you feel is appropriate and right for your situation. I think you should do what everyone is telling you about giving her the cold shoulder. It's time to turn the tables back on her, as she has done with you. Believe me man - this works in most cases. There are no guarantees but it's a good shot. At the same time - do things for yourself. Strengthen yourself and watch what happens. Everything else will follow. You will need to do this anyway no matter what. So why not start today. This is a new awakening for you. No more crap from her or anyone. Build yourself and everything else will follow.

I will check in on you again and will have to shake you down again if I see you side stepping. You are a good sport. You surely don't deserve to be treated the way she has been treating you. If you can believe this - you are golden.

HOMO (cuz I am a good sport too!) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

DM -

Might be my first post to you. I only post for a few minutes after work so I miss all the action during the day.

Saw some good posts on your thread. You have your marching orders now <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Time to stop sinking and start swimming - take control of your life.

I'm slated to go to L.A. soon. I'll come find you and kick you [censored] into shape If I have to man. LOL

Bud, you will make it through this either way. Pulling the triger will only get your some of your self worth back.

Is your Plan B letter ready? To you have an intermidiary?
What going on with your insurance?

Thanks to everyone for their posts.

TMTS, I have some intermediaries in mind, but I doubt she'll ever do our business through someone else. My best bet is to have her use SIL to contact me. My opinion on the insurance is that it probably won't have that kind of impact. It actually hurts her more to pay for it because it costs more than the auto insurance and storage that im paying. I'm not trying to argue. I just know her and she'll think I'm being petty as well as stupid for going on my own and paying double or more for it.



quote from heal..

I agree with this and I've been feeling it for awhile. I need to start thinking out of the MB box now and do something that'll work for me.

I've been working on my pbl, but I've been thinking....if I go to plan b... the message behind it might not be strong enough. I'd still give her a pbl and go dark, but i feel the need to add a little more pressure. To say that what she's doing is causing me pain and hurting my love for her is not going to be enough and neither is stepping aside and waiting for the A to end because I'm sure that's what she wants.

I want to add that if she continues down this path, i'll have to file a D even though it's not what I want. I love her and want to fix our marriage, but she's giving me no choice.

If that doesn't work, i would follow through with it and atleast regain some respect. I think that's one of the most important things i need to accomplish. She can't love me if she doesn't respect me. We could always remarry if our paths come back together... although i won't be holding my breath.

Any opinions or suggestions on this?

First, did you send the ecard?

Look for draft plan b letters. They are meant to let them know you're moving on and trying to save your feelings for her and that the door is open but you're not going to wait forever.

Good luck.

no... i didn't send anything. She sent me a text yesterday, but all it said was that it was snowing where she was and a picture of it. I didn't respond to it and I later found out that she sent the same text to a mutual friend of ours. Nothing about valentines day. I have a feeling she's going to celebrate V-day with that POS when she get's back on saturday.

I have a link to the pbl letters, but what do you think about the other stuff? I just don't think "the door is still open, but im going to be moving on" message would work. I think it needs to be "I've given you enough time and the door is closing."

Maybe im just looking for that magic bullet again... or trying to overcompensate for allowing her to go so far.

In your case, AS LONG AS YOU MEAN IT, take as strong of a stand as you will follow through on.

She either needs to be jolted into recommitting to the M or you need to move on towards a better life, but it appears it is time to draw a line in the dirt, by taking some definitive action.

It's time brother. I think you should close the door forever and be grateful, but it's your call on whether or not you want to leave any of it open.

You'll be surprised by how liberated you'll feel as time and silence passes.

OK.. I guess this is good, but I have no idea what to do now. She is throwing a wrench in the works...

As you know, I've been preparing for plan B (writing pbl and moving her stuff to storage, etc..) Meanwhile, she's been calling me since friday when she got back from her trip. I haven't cut her off completely yet, but I've been giving her the cold shoulder, not answering all of her calls/texts and acting distracted..

She contacted me today to ask how we're filing our taxes this year. I said we should file separately, giving a subtle hint that we may not be seeing/talking to each other by then. Before I knew it, we got into the R talk and I found out she's not seeing OM2 anymore (so she says), but she's still not sure about coming home.

She said she doesn't think I really want to work things out because deep down I have too much resentment.

I asked her why she assumes that after all I've been doing and saying to her. I told her to read the letter I wrote her a few weeks ago because I meant every word of it.

I'm not saying I haven't developed any feelings of resentment because it's impossible not to after what she's been doing, but I'm willing to deal with those feelings when the time comes.

She still doesn't think that seeing OM2 was "cheating" or an "affair" because we're separated.

She says she hasn't seen him since before her trip, but they still talk "a little."
(not sure if I believe her or not because according to her brother, she didn't come home saturday night.)

I asked why she's not seeing him anymore.
She said there was no point since he isn't the one.

She doesn't know what she's planning to do. I told her she knows what I want, but she has to want it too. It's up to her to decided what our marriage and life together is worth.

She doesn't want to "rush into anything."
I said it's an all or nothing deal and it won't work unless both of us are committed. She knows that, but still wants to take things slow and whatever happens, happens.

So now what? Do I keep up with the cold shoulder act? Continue to plan B or...??

Obviously, she's still a WS and something needs to happen. Should I tell her I was on the verge of cutting her off / filing a D?