Well, I wasn't sure that I was actually in Plan B yet since I was going to wait until she got back from her trip next week. But I guess it's beginning since she's already noticed that im not trying to communicate with her. Like I said, she seemed a little po'd yesterday and she knows somethings going on. I don't know if she'll even try to contact me anymore.

I didn't want to pull away too hard or too fast and have her take things the the wrong way. I also haven't given her a pbl yet. How am I going to give that to her if I go into it now? Should I just email it to her while she's on her trip?

I wanted to atleast see her one last time since it's been over a month. I've only seen her about 4 times in the last 5 months and thought it might be good for her to see me too. Any thoughts on that or should I just pull the trigger?

It's funny how i finally have the opportunity to do a good plan A after all this time, but now I'm not doing it. I do feel a lot better about myself though and feel like I've regained much of my self respect just in the last week.

I know this is probably the only way I can end this mess. If she starts seeing another OM, it's done. I would have to go straight to D. Just wondering if I shouldn't talk to her a few more times or try to see her before turning off the lights.

If any others, especially any vets can chime in here and give me their thoughts or some reassurance, I'd appreciate it. I can use all the encouragement I can get right now.

Either continue Plan A (which has shown to be ineffective) or give her the Plan B letter and commit to not breaking it.

You need her to know why you are not interacting with her and what it will take to change that, that is what the Plan B letter is for. See, right now, you don't know if she's not talking to you because of the a, if she's mad, or whatever. Once you give her the Plan B letter, then YOU know that you are not talking to her because she has not yet committed to meeting the conditions you outlined for her in the Plan B letter. Plan B is you, taking control of what you can control. YOU, your life, and what you need in a marriage. She can choose to be that, or not, if not, then you don't want to be married either.

Thanks tyk..
It's not necessarily about continuing plan A. Just to see her and try to spend some time with her. I would never go back to the way I was being. Then maybe have a discussion with her and if she's still not budging, which I don't expect, go to plan B. Atleast i can try to leave her with some good feelings.

My only concern right now is that it's been so long and plan B might not be so bad for her at this point. Even for me, I feel I can go on without her now. I just don't want to. I've almost forgotten what she looks like.

There's a definition for continuing to do something over and over again expecting a different result.

You've done absolutely nothing to have her feel bad about you, yet you continue to think that, "just one more conversation" is going to do the trick.

Mail her the letter or email it, but take control of your life. You've done enough.

Let me rephrase what I was trying to say. I know what that sounded like and it's my fault for not being clearer. I'm not proposing to continue plan A in the manner that you're probably thinking.

What I meant was to continue showing her that I'm no longer the person I've made myself out to be in the last few months. Continue with the 180s or what not and show her that I'm capable of moving on because I honestly feel that I am now. Believe me when I say, that I've finally snapped out of that "doormat" phase..thanks to all of you for beating it out of me.

I've always been a person who had a lot of pride, self-respect and dignity, but this event in my life broke me down into something I couldn't recognize. I feel like I'm finally becoming myself again and I want to show her the new me or "me" prior to dday. Again, what I'm trying to do is damage control on her image of me before I go to plan b.

I don't want her to think that I gave up and now im going to sulk in darkness. The discussion that I want to have with her is to finally say the things that I've been holding back... that I'm not going to take this crap anymore. "this is what I'm offering, this is what I'm willing to do. If you don't want it, see ya." I'm back to my old self (with improvements of course).

I realize I can do that in a plan B letter, but I thought it could be more effective if she saw it in person. In a sense, I'm setting her up to give me her Fog Babble and use it against her as the reason why I'm going dark... that and all of her actions (or inactions).

Just wondering if this would increase the effectiveness of going to plan B. I also know that now is the best time for plan B, so I'm only talking about doing this for a short while. She's still on her trip, so maybe just another week or two (max). But who knows... I might not even get the chance to do this. I'm not calling her anymore and I don't know if she plans to call me. She already knows somethings up.

Maybe you are right and I should forget everything I just said. I spent the last couple of hours in complete anger at my WW. I dont know why. I haven't even talked to her, but I felt like something snapped and it's something I haven't felt before.

How do you know if you lose your love for them? I feel like it's happening, but I don't want it to. Am I just going crazy or what??

You're waking up.

Good for you.

I wouldn't really say that you are losing your love for her. But now you are able to feel other feelings towards her. Where as before - you felt that you only had to love her no matter how awful she was to you.

This is a good sign of progress in you. Because now you are standing up for yourself. And this is rightly so and a long time coming. This is appropriate as she caused the unrest in you.

I wouldn't worry about not wanting to lose your love for her. You won't. The person you fell in love with and still love is a different person. This is not her now. If that normal person came back, you would pick up your love for her right where you left off. But this is someone different now. Who in the world could love her after all she has done to you? You are just starting to realize and come to terms with everything.

However, losing your lover for her is a potential result and risk that she has been willing to take. It is ok for this to happen if she keeps up her antics.

I'm glad to hear you have finally snapped back to normal. In my opinion, your situation has been so unconventional to begin with - it doesn't matter how you go into plan B. Just as long as you get your point across and make that transition finally. I see you are doing things for yourself now - so continue to do what you feel is best for you. Do not lose this forward momentum.

DM,

You will go through phazes and stages. One day you'll be angry at her. Another you'll feel nothing. Another day you'll be crying alone on the floor of your kitchen after a few drinks as you look at a love letter she wrote you long ago.

Don't assume you will feel one way forever because you feel that way now.

It's how you feel after a long period of time that's a better indicator. A few hours won't cut it.

But it is a good thing that you're feeling different things. It's about time you woke up.

Imagine if it wasn't you but a buddy. What would you tell him?

With no kids in the picture you'd want him to ditch the woman and start living and not be held prisoner by her anymore.

She has you prisoner. We want you to liberate yourself from this and finally see that you have a full life to live and don't need to be with a woman that has slept around on you with not one, but two men.

Seriously, what does she feel is your role in her life? Why does she care if you have one or a million myspace friends when she's out dating?

Believe me, anything you say to her is wasted breath. Don't waste your time.

The greatest revelation I had the past year was the acceptance that anything I said to my ex was wasted breath that fell on deaf ears. I started saving myself a lot more time by finally understanding this.

It helped me start living, which is what we hope you can do.

Believe me, you've lost nothing and learned a big lesson. You have no kids with this woman. Consider yourself lucky and drop her and find one with morals.

I know it's not the end result you want, but it's the best thing for YOU.

Right, the anger didn't last very long, but it was intense. My heart hasn't pounded like that since around dday. A few hours later, my mood swung to the other side. I guess this is what I have to look forward to. I can't say I'm a stranger to it. I just thought I was getting over that part and now it's starting all over again.

She hasn't tried to contact me. She was online today. I logged on for about 10 minutes and logged off.

I still want to talk to her and maybe share some of these new feelings with her. I don't know if she thinks I'm cowering in pain somewhere or if she thinks she's right about the resentment

What are you doing man? Wallowing in indecision is actually harmful to you and your situation.

Who cares how she interprets your silence? You have the wherewithal to let her know EXACTLY how to interpret your silence. Its called a Plan B Letter. Why are you leaving out the most important part of Plan B? Its counterproductive. You are torturing yourself here.

Your plan b letter is the place to put those thoughts and feelings. Dump your heart out in there.

But you must take steps after you give her the letter to take her off of messenger so you don't see if she's online or not.

Look, I know exactly how you feel. I use to argue with my ex on IM all the time over a year ago. I also use to go to her myspace page to see what guys she was flirting with and if she was going out with anyone.

I considered it a small victory when I went one or two days without going to her site. One or two days turned into one to two weeks and then one to two months and finally I got to a point where I didn't think about it anymore.

The day will come when you go several hours without thinking of her.

Listen, I understand your mood swings. You would be abnormal if you didn't feel these things. But trust me when I tell you that you will look back in shame at how you've acted these last few months and how we've been the lighthouse for you trying to guide you through the storm.

Our advice is based on the experience of being in your shoes, suffering your pain and making your mistakes. You're the one poster on here I most relate to because you have that same "I don't want to quit on the one I love" mentality I use to have.

It's not healthy. The day you accept that there is no such thing as the kind of love you see in movies and that REAL love is nothing like that, then you start to approach relationships with a healthy attitude.

Needy people attract needy personalities. Your ex is needy. She'll continue to be needy and will break someone else's heart because reality will one day set in once the hormones wear off.

I've been getting calls from an ex from 10 years ago who NOW regrets her decision to not marry me. Hmmmm.

The difference is that I've long since moved on and while I once loved her deeply and wanted to grow old with her, I don't want anything to do with her now.

Your ex may be in the same boat. You may find yourself 10 years from now re-married to a wonderful woman and have 2 kids and your ex THEN wants to wake up and come back, but it's too late.

Mood swings are normal. It's part of the healing process and the anger you feel borders on rage.

The opposite of love isn't hate, it's indifference.

The day will come when you hear about your ex and it doesn't affect you.

My ex told me, less than 2 years after our D and her affairs, that she's now engaged.

My reaction? "Great......." I wonder what's on the History Channel tonight?

I don't know what she expected from me or how she expected me to react or even why she felt the need to tell me, but that's how I reacted.

Nine months ago I would have been in tears, reading her cards and letters from when we were married and wondering how and why it all ended this way.

Today I feel very different and am approaching that feeling of indifference.

It gets better with time and you will, as time passes, fell less and less for your WW.

Your love can turn to hate over time if you continue to let her treat you as she treats you.

Keep in mind that you're responsible for your own misery.

What's happening with you DM?

Thanks for asking Pom. I don't know if this is just a strange coincidence or what, but this is the first time i've been here in awhile and i see that you just posted this a few days ago.

To be honest, i didnt know if i'd be posting again. Things got a little too overwhelming and I couldnt stand the craziness any longer. Sorry for going MIA like that when you guys were trying to help.

Well, I guess you can say a lot's happened, but not quite enough. WW stopped seeing OM2 in feb and I was just about to go to plan b. Then it was almost like she knew what was about to happen because she came to me and asked if we could try work on things. But that didn't mean she was moving back. She wanted to take things slow and date each other (only each other, so i decided to try it.

It has been ok, but i can tell she's still foggy and lost. She isn't putting in the effort that's needed if we're ever going to recover. So I've been doing this for a couple of months now and i can't say that im happy. I still feel like a fool and wonder why im still doing this, but i told myself i would continue until june 1 which will be a year from dday. Not sure that I can make it that long, but at that point, I think I'm going to file a D and finally call it a day.

I originall pulled the d-card on her about a month ago and she seemed to turn around, but it only lasted about a week before things went right back. So thats about it. We've been hanging out and seeing each other, but we are definitely not what we used to be. When did mention to her about a D, she asked if I wanted to try going back to counseling, but neither of us have made an appt. I started thinking there is no point in going to MC if she still isn't commited to it, but who knows... maybe we should try?

no point in marriage counseling unless she is COMMITTED to the marriage.

big waste of time and money.

mlhb

HEY DM!!!!

Ok...here's what I think. At this point, you need to do your best plan A for the next couple of weeks (since that is where you are anyways). I mean, be the life of the party. No R&A talks...there is absolutely NO POINT with a wayward who is still foggy, anyways! SO STOP THE TALKS!

Go to the movies, a comedy club, a noisy bar...when at home, put in a movie, play a board game or cards, ANYTHING that distracts from the TALKING and focuses on FUN. Part of her problem is that she sees your relationship as boring (not that it is...just a fog thing) so you need to do eveything possible to be the cool guy you were when ya'll were dating.

-NO NEEDINESS

-NO EMOTIONAL R&A DISCUSSIONS (if she starts them, say "we can talk about that later...I wanna have some fun")

-DO FUN STUFF THAT DISTRACTS FROM HEAVY TALKING

-ACT LIKE YOU ARE COOL AS A CUCUMBER

-BE STRONG

Trust me, DM, this will make an impact. Also, you can still pull off the cold chill every now and again. Tell her you will call her at a certain time and then be too busy. When she calls you, tell her...Oh sorry--I forgot. Do this very minimally...it is more about body language, a subtle thing that shows her that you are not dependant on her for your happiness. Keep going out with friends and if she disaproves, tell her you would be willing to negociate all of that stuff with her once she moves back home and commits to the M completely.

Do your best to get her back into the house. It is the best way to save your M.

Hang in there!!

Hey LaLa!
I was wondering if you were still around.

Thanks for the reminders. It's been awhile since i thought of it in terms of plan a, but I guess you're right. I'll keep those things in mind.

I'm just having a hard time giving her things that she hasn't deserved yet. Well, like i said, I'm only doing this for a little while longer.

I dont want to get back in the habit of spending all my time here like I used to, but i will check back in a bit.

Thanks for still being here and helping others.

Remember...you aren't doing any of these things FOR HER...you are doing them to improve yourself. Mainly your self-esteem, which has taken quite a beating over the last few months. Feelings follow actions, and so the more you pull yourself up and value yourself by ACTING like you do, the more that frame of mind will stick and you will FEEL worthy and cool.

Stop enmeshing your feelings with her. She does not make you happy, she does not make you unhappy. Her actions do not determine your worth...ONLY YOU DO!! YOU decide you are going to be OK no matter what happens and YOU portray happiness and fun (even if it feels as fake as a $3 bill at first).

Good to see you back!! I missed wackin' you with the lumber (hehehehehe)