Shorter Longhorn:

Hillary is deeply flawed.

But no politics on MB forums!

GC

It may define the relationship but not the people involved.

What I think we are missing here is we don't know who had affairs and under what circumstances.

So we say don't vote for x candidate because 20 years ago he hit a rough spot in his M and made a bad choice.

But Y candidate goes to hookers in Mexico every 3 months and is very discrete about it.

Next is it seems as though people are advocating punishing FWS in their professional life.

What about a FBS is there something that says maybe we should be looked upon differently for staying with a FWS?

If the numbers hold up I am sure some of the BEST CEO's in teh country have had an A. I am sure shareholders don't care as long as they keep making money.

when I worked in healthcare, I remember the CEO of Aetna USHC (Joe Sebastianelli) being fired for having an affair with a stewardess from the company jet.

Hey Frog,

Would you let a known pedophile babysit? Of course there are things we don't know about candidates, but when we do know about character flaws, those flaws are a part of the whole package and should be taken into consideration.

As far as infidelity defining who a person is, well, our actions do define the person we are. The negative aspects of our personalities such as lying, stealing, and cheating are as much a part of who we are as giving time and money to charities or showing kindness to others.

It's just my opinion, but I don't believe adultry can be undone. It can be recovered from, forgiven, and repented of, but that doesn't mean that my FWH is no longer an adulter any more than someone who commits murder or steals is no longer a murder or a thief.

Actions define the character of people. We simply can not know what is in their hearts any other way.

Who

Who,

Come on now.

Not even close to the same.



They absolutely do. The adultery being one action in a course of a lifetime that seems to be getting singled out as the only action that matters.

Someone had an affair so they are not qualified to do the job.


I agree!



I agree with this as well. Should we then not let the FBS decide if the FWS is a moral person now? Are we saying any one that ever had an A will always be immoral?


I no longer consider my FWW an adulterer. I consider her a person that at one time committed adultery.

I do not consider the person that once stole something a thief forever. I consider that person someone that stole something at one time.

The person most qualified to do any job is not necessarily a perfect Moral person by everyones definition. However it doesn't mean they are not the most qualified.

Oh and just a few examples

George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Martin Luther King JR.
JFK, Benjamin Franklin, Abe Lincoln.

I wonder what our conuntry would be like if we never let these people talk about morality.

Character, Integrity, Honesty, Values and internal strength to do the “right thing”. These characteristics are what I want in our President. Affairs are built upon lies, deceit and personal weakness. And yes I do believe that people that have affairs that are otherwise “good people” have an extremely poor since of judgment. I don’t respect those who leave their families to live happily ever after in their fantasy world. They ruin their loved ones lives but yet we aren’t to judge there ability to be great leaders. That reeks of entitlement. We had a President who argued the fact that getting a BJ wasn’t sex. “Give me a Break”. Was he a great leader? History will say yes. I don’t agree.

Merlin2

Oops, never mind. Said I'm not getting into politics...and there I go. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

hehehe

It's interesting how some other folks' ideas can help in ways that should have been obvious, but I didn't think of them without an email from Bramblerose.

She suggested that I might want 2 talk 2 my son about the conventional wisdom most of us have pre d-day about affairs. That seems like a good idea, but I will want 2 do that without telling him about my W's A, because it's over (unless my W chooses 2 tell him).

She also suggested I have a conversation with my W about what was wrong with our marriage pre-A, since she still appears 2 blame me in part for her choice 2 have it. And so, I don't think arguing with her about who's responsible will be productive at this time (even if I'm right and she's uninformed). But talking 2 her about the condition of our marriage pre-A, which we share responsibility for, might be productive.

I like it when I get good ideas from folks.

-ol' 2long

Maybe the type of country that doesn't have three-fourths of all marriages impacted by infidelity?

If some of our greatest leaders couldn't keep their d_cks in their pants, why should the rest of us, right?

You can't make up for infidelity by doing good things in other areas of your life. Those men you listed should've kept their f_cking mouths shut on the subject. Somebody with morals and integrity would've eventually come along and said the same thing, and really meant it.

Those scumbags (narcissists), with the possible exception of Martin Luther King, Jr., were probably more interested in gaining votes and furthering their careers than actually making a social impact with their words.

The 10 most memorable quotes of 2007, according to Fred R. Shapiro, editor of the Yale Book of Quotations:

--1. ''Don't tase me, bro.'' -- Andrew Meyer, a senior at the University of Florida, while being hauled away by campus police during a speech by Sen. John Kerry.

--2. ''I personally believe that U.S. Americans are unable to do so because some people out there in our nation don't have maps and I believe that our education like such as in South Africa and Iraq and everywhere like such as and I believe that they should our education over here in the U.S. should help the U.S. or should help South Africa and should help Iraq and the Asian countries so we will be able to build up our future for us.'' -- Lauren Upton, South Carolina contestant in the Miss Teen USA contest, when asked why one-fifth of Americans cannot find the U.S on a map.

--3. ''In Iran we don't have homosexuals like in your country.'' --Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, speaking at Columbia University in New York.

--4. ''That's some nappy-headed hos there.'' -- radio personality Don Imus, referring to the Rutgers University women's basketball team.

--5. ''I don't recall.'' -- former Attorney General Alberto Gonzales' repeated response to congressional questions about the firing of U.S. attorneys.

--6. ''There's only three things he (Rudolph Giuliani mentions in a sentence: a noun and a verb and 9/11.'' -- Sen. Joseph Biden, speaking during a debate for Democratic presidential candidates.

--7. ''I'm not going to get into a name-calling match with somebody who has a 9 percent approval rating.'' -- Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, a Democrat, referring to Vice President [censored] Cheney.

--8. ''(I have) a wide stance when going to the bathroom.'' -- Sen. Larry Craig, explaining why his foot touched the foot of an undercover police officer in an airport men's room.

--9. ''I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy. I mean, that's a storybook, man.'' -- Sen. Joseph Biden referring to rival Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Barack Obama.

--10. ''I think as far as the adverse impact on the nation around the world, this administration has been the worst in history.'' -- Former President Jimmy Carter, referring to the Bush administration.

I guess we should line em up and shoot em down.

Maybe an infidels prison. Reopen San Quenton and send eveyone that ever had an affair there. Put the Scarlett letter A on their chest for all to see.

So Good old Abe Lincoln should have kept his mouth shut about slavery. Nobody before him seemed to care.

Good Old George Washington was the first person to ever peacfully hand over the rule of a government. They wanted him to be like a King but he wanted to pass over the rule so our democracy could be founded.

Oh and what do we do about Affair Partners? HMMM they never get the attention the infidel does.

For me, since odds are that 75 or 80% of potential candidates have been subjected 2 infidelity in their marriages (either theirs or their spouse's), the important thing is what have they learned?

Are they better people?

Did their character grow?

Did they 2rn adversity in2 oppor2nity for personal, spiri2al growth?

Did they become people of integrity?

I find it sad that people (and I've done this 2, folks) blackball former affairees for life for making a horrible mistake. Nevermind they might have grown from their experience.

Look. We live about 80 years or so these days, right? We'll be dead soon. Can we give one another a little credit and maybe an oppor2nity for maybe getting things right before we shove daisies?

Not saying that any of the candidates are "worthy", but I think some may be.

-ol' 2long

Well said 2long!!!

I agree 2long - if someone had an affair but has now earned their "F" why should they be still held in bondage to their previous sins?

They paid the price. It wouldn't occur to me to keep punishing them.

Two affair-impacted people are running for the White House.

One whitewashes his unrepentant infidelity and estrangement with his children as a private matter, having no impact on his ability or integrity in serving as our president.

The other one whitewashed the evidence against her WH, threatening highway patrol troopers' jobs, playing hardball against other witnesses and sexual harassment victims, and got to play the stoic "stand-by-her-man" posture, while who knows what went on in private.

Frog - neither of these players fit the kind of recovering wayward spouse or betrayed spouse you describe as being able to put the past behind them. Their violations are ever present, as is the wayward fog/ambition/entitlement fog around them.

I don't think your remorseful wife should be defined by her past adultery. But these two players don't regret their actions. Therefore, a wise, informed voter who recognizes that private behavior gives clues about public integrity would be careful in even considering the rest of the campaign promises uttered by these two.

2Long - you can teach your son about fidelity through your example - and in discussing the implications of a public official's infidelity - undiscovered can lead to vulnerability to blackmail; discovered and voluntarily remorseful (not for the cameras after there was no denying the facts in evidence) and the high cost of that distraction to his ability to honor and sustain the law of the land - testifying truthfully vs lying under oath... The tarnish on another president for rumors and innuendo (Kennedy) and the rest of them.

On the other hand: How many have now tried to lay claim to a Jefferson inheritance? Was he truthfully unfaithful? See - unless you live your life clearly away from that unfaithful line, tabloid journalists of today could become the historians 200 years from now - how will Rudy or Bill's great great grandchildren know how to discern the truth from the tabloid? Certainly not by how Rudy treated his own children because of infidelity, or for what Chelsea grew up with while in the White House - His memory with his posterity will always be colored by what he imprinted on his daughter about men.

That's what you teach your son about infidelity. You also could use the example of a certain I/T guy who left a certain major brokerage firm under "private" scandal a few months ago - that was well publicized HERE at marriagebuilders. Remember Heartsore's rat meat? You don't have to expose your wife if you don't want to - there's enough in the media to start an integrity conversation.

Hearsay. Gossip.

Indeed, who knows what went on in private?

They're still married.

I know for me, I will not vote for anyone that has been exposed as an adulteror. Public office is too important to place someone of questionable character in charge.

They, the candidates, knew going in they'd be scrutinized under a microscope. If they have something to hide, then they shouldn't be running.

Jo

ETA: I certainly don't mean to offend any FWS here. The discussion is political in nature and not meant to be personal.