medc,
I must be a masochist to keep trying to have any kind of reasonable discussion....but I will respond to your comments...as logically as I can.
Am I?
I said STRONGEST Comments...NOT worst criticism....you are twisting my words. I did not say criticism or worst. they were your words. Strong comments were my words...BIG DIFFERENCE.
Okay, what does "strongest"
mean medc? I interpreted that word in a way that any reasonable person would considering the comments that were actually made on this thread. I'm not trying to twist your meaning. When you say
strongest....were you referring to comments like these examples? (all of which you enthusiastically agreed):
Especially since most women in the social set they were interviewing for the article are probably very well educated and capable of making money on their own. But instead they want to be paid for the "services" they provided for their husband during the marriage...kind of sounds like a [email]wh@re[/email] to me...
In most cases of adultery/divorce the adultery came first THEN the justifications such as feeling neglected, EN's weren't being met, etc. Usually the WS gave no indication to the BS that there was anything wrong whatsoever until they met their 'soulmate' and started looking for excuses to explain how their adultery is OK.
Not in the least bit feminism IMHO either - more like BIMBOism!
oh poor baby can't take care of herself, let the courts step in and take care of poor little wifey. Bull. As long as women seek out this payment for "services rendered", we will never be respected equally in society.
It's sad to see that so many young females today believe that feminism means they can be as sexually promiscuous, emotionally cruel, and irresponsible as the worst males they know. It's as if the poster gal for feminism is a gold-digger Playboy bunny!
etc
etc
Are these examples of
strong comments that are not
criticisms of women? Or characterizing women in the
worst possible light? Am I really misinterpreting this? Wouldn't most reasonable people interpret these comments as strong, negative, statements that are highly critical of women?
and I have not responded to you with any disdain.
No medc, you might be right.....you haven't really responded at all except to summarily dismiss anything I had to offer the discussion. Your lack of response, communicated "disdain" to me, but it could have any other equally negative emotion. When someone takes the time to respond to your discussion at length, and you fire back a one sentence response that doesn't address 99 percent of the what was written....it
might seem like disdain to normal people.
No, SF..I am an example of how BAD a mom has to be before a father can actually be given a fair shake in court.
If you look at the glass as "half empty" then yes....that's one way to look at it. OR you might look at the same facts and see that as a good father, you prevailed. I'd like to think that a big part of the courts decision was based on your ability to parent your child....not just what a wreck your ex was. Do you really believe that your presence as a responsible parent didn't weigh into that decision? Courts give custody of kids to mothers worse than your ex....why not this time? What was it about you that made them decide differently? You're not giving yourself alot of credit....and I don't think it will help men
at all to see themselves as victims. Victimization is crippling....and doesn't empower anybody. Men need to be empowered and find resources to make custody more equitable.
I do not care if others agree with me...
Yes you do medc. There is a stark contrast between the way to treat people who agree with you and those who don't. Even if they generally agree on a subject, but not on all details....they're still "against" you.
but I have said nothing but facts here.
What is UNfactual about the other research I presented? I was offering facts too. But
isolated facts like the one you gave about the amount of child support....presents a fact in a vacuum. For instance....here's a "fact":
62% of custodial mothers do not receive child support
Now if I gave you that fact and only that fact....it would sound like there are an awful lot of fathers who don't pay child support wouldn't it? It would seemingly put fathers in the worst light. But here are some other facts:
of that number, three-fourths of them simply do not want child support, have not asked for it, have accepted other financial arrangements instead of child support, or the father does not have the money. Only 11% of those custodial mothers who do not receive child support, is because of "deadbeat dads".)
Do you see the difference? Facts have to be put in context to make sense. That's why looking at the whole picture is so important. You can't find the truth by looking at only one set of facts.
Dad's get the shaft in court...and they need to fight 100 times harder than a mom to get anywhere.
When it comes to custody issues....I agree with you. However....financially and healthwise....I can point you to one study after another that says men and women both suffer long term affects from divorce in both of those areas.
Foster is a whole different ballgame. I have seen no injustice there at all.
That's good to know.
You say women were characterized poorly...I say it was honestly. MM and Maggie hit the nail on the head.
If those "strong" comments made by MM and maggie...like the ones I quoted above...are "hitting the nail on the head"....then it's hard to believe you have any respect for women.
I didn't use 1 article. I can site thousands of articles that reference the smack down men get in this arena.
Maybe you
can present other articles, but you only presented this one, and
anybody can cite articles that place one gender or another as the villain in divorce. People love to sensationalize this stuff.
But the real villain....IS
divorce...not either gender.
Again, I agree that men are not treated equitably in custody issues....but that is changing.
Even most women are on board now about how unfair the system is. But there are many, many that still play the game.
How many women do you know? How do you know what "most" women think? I think anybody can easily see that women get primary custody of children more than men. To put that fact in perspective however....there are some reasons the courts rule that way more often...and a big one is that more often than not....the mother was the primary care giver during the marriage. But not always, not anymore....and as a result custody cases are changing.
I'm all for looking at facts....but I'd like to look at all of them...at least all that are available. And I don't think the strong statements presented....were facts at all...just opinions.
Here's a couple of facts you might appreciate:
According to the report from the US Census Bureau, the right for child custody is no longer vested with mothers. With the rise in the number of marriages culminating in divorce, there has been a significant increase in the number of single fathers. The percentage of fathers to whom complete custody of the child has been awarded has increased by 15 percent compared to 1995. Today, more fathers are ready to take up the responsibility of their child at the time of divorce.
Fathers are increasingly being awarded custody of their children in Family Court cases, new figures released by the courts show.
Despite persistent criticism that courts are anti-male, almost 20 per cent of child-residence decisions are being settled in the father's favor - twice the rate of earlier decades.
Court figures show that as recently as the mid-1990s, only 15 per cent of residence applications were decided in favor of the father.
University of Ohio law professor and family law specialist Patrick Parkinson said the latest figures showed a cultural shift.
"Go back another 10 years, to the 1980s, and 90 per cent of all orders were in favor of mothers," Professor Parkinson said.
"You have here a shift of the order of 10 per cent over 20 years. That's big.
"Everything I am seeing now is that there is a massive cultural shift in the interest of fathers in post-separation parenting, and you see it in (non-resident fathers') dissatisfaction in contact arrangements."
