Nia, I think Mr W was referring to his wife a a FWW. Not Star.

So, are you causing evil by your actions here?

And I'm having a hard time figuring you out, medc---for a man who is raising one child and fostering another---you seem to be lacking a lot of compassion (and manners). That's something that's truly puzzling to me. You're not the typical neanderthal men's right poster.

lmao....you are hysterical K.

Glad I can provide some much needed laughter into your life. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Your behavior and attitude on this board, full of vulnerable people in need of help---well, it's a bit troubling.

take it up with a moderator.

I think the name is Justuss.

If you don't like my post, put me on ignore. It would be nice to not hear this cackling in the future....as you have arrived at your conclusions already.

I will continue as I have without concern as to how or what you think I should post.

Had to quote you K. Very important point.

Plus those of us who read more than they write! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Oh, I'd like to add, my S and DIL had a baby girl Wednesday, December 19th. They are at 2-1/2 years recovered, thank goodness or I'd never had a chance to ever know Miss Claire, all 7lbs. 12oz. of her!

They've never posted here, just had a MB'er for M/MIL!

[color:"blue"] Hi Star! [/color]

I guess the question is What exactly should me be wary OF?

The article suggested that one solution was not to get married at all - which is a fine solution. If you want companionship, get a dog or something. Of course, that doesn't help if you wind up in a relationship with a woman and "oops" she becomes pregnant with your child. If you think child custody awards are hopeless in the case of divorce from marriage - look at the dismal statistics on wresting a child away from an unwed mother. You're likely to pay full child support with less visitation rights if you impregnate a woman you're not married to.

We could always bring back fault divorce - I must have been too young at the time to remember what ever happened to fault divorce. I remember a time when there was fault divorce but it seemed like the next time I turned around (as a very young adult) everything was no fault. I was probably too busy obsessing over my hair or the boy sitting next to me in math to pay attention to larger things like politics (ie. I was an average teenager). I wonder if anyone here remembers when and why that happened? (I'll go look it up historically either way but it's always nice to hear from someone who lived through the time and was paying attention.)

The problems, of course, with fault divorce is that there's never just any one fault on there. So, what you have is two sides trying to prove who's worse than that other side and some judge in the middle trying to decide how to balance adultery vs. <whatever>.

One other message here might be: be careful who you marry - don't pick someone with these characteristics or you're signing up for a lot of grief

Well, that's good advice on both sides of the fence. Ladies and Gentlemen - don't marry partners who like to philander. It's too bad there isn't some standardized test that people can take like the SAT which determines the likelihood of someone doing well in college - that would determine the likelihood of someone being a good marital partner or parent. Instead, we all just lead with our hearts (or maybe our loins), don't we?

The article also suggests that men pay more attention to the state of their marriages. Dr. Harley does, too. If she was complaining and she suddenly STOPS. Usually that's your first clue that somethings about to go real bad, real soon. But, then, as has been suggested - many women don't complain at all. They encourage men to be successful at work and they'll take care of the home front.

Maybe, a good hard look at oneself (on either party) every now and again with the objective of determining if you would like to be married to you. would be a good recommendation. Or, maybe make that part of an annual report. You each tell each other if you've been a good marriage partner.

Once it's gotten to the point of the divorce fight (for whatever reason), as the article suggests, it's probably too late to do anything but hang on for dear life and hope you and your children (and your stbxw, if you still have compassion) come out of it intact as possible on the other side.

I think fighting this in the courts is going to be a long, protracted, and messy battle. I don't think justice is very easy to define. For every gold digging woman you can find some abusive Neanderthal man to balance it out. In the middle of the tug of war are the innocent children.

I'd love to give the courts the discretion to decide that neither parent is grown up enough to care for themselves let alone minors and have the state take the children away during divorce proceedings. I wonder how people would feel about that?

Just my $.02,

Mys

This would suck. Not only would it put an undue buren on the tax payer, but more importantly, it would remove some children from a parent or parents that simply sucked at marriage. That doesn't mean they suck at parenting.

I am co-parenting my DD with her mother whom I despise, yet 'together' we actually do a pretty good job at parenting, even if we aren't always on the same sheet of music.

Children of the state rarely come to be adopted. More than likely, they bounce from foster home to foster home. IMO, children of divorced parents are much better off than children with no parents at all. IN MOST CASES.

MYS...if you truly knew about and dealt with the states handling of children...you would realize how bad that suggestion truly is.

I think other than that, you made some very good points in your post.


"For every gold digging woman you can find some abusive Neanderthal man to balance it out."

Absolutely, and those men should have their asses handed to them. I hate abuse no matter the gender.

And to say there is NEVER just one party at fault is not realistic. Most often I would agree with you...but other times not. As Dr. H says, not all affairs are about addiction or unmet needs.

IMHO, some people are just trash waiting to be taken to the curb.

medc, Mr Wondering:

"Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean that people aren't out 2 get you."

I'm not worried about you, though. Your armor and weaponry far outstrip your opponent's.

More like:

"Though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil - because I'm the meanest SOB in the valley."

I love the Pep quote, by the way. It is comforting 2 know that my opinion won't bother you. Even though it isn't intended 2.

-ol' 2long

Well, this is most undoubtedly true. Still, even from some of the cases you read on here - or see on the news - you sometimes just wish a judge could say Look, I wouldn't trust either one of you to care for my goldfish over the weekend let alone a human child...

Obviously, my suggestion would require some SERIOUS changes in how children in "the system" are handled and the assumption that there a lots of loving, caring, nurturing places to shelter them.

Given the current system, I gladly concede the point.


Well, yes, that may be what is actually true - but after doing some quick research on no fault divorce laws and how they actually came about (mind you, not thorough, in depth, I'd write a thesis on it research but looking around) the basic gist of the story is that people were making stuff up.

Judges and the all around legal system were tired of sorting through the lies and all the "unprovables" like mental cruelty or allegations of abuse or mistreatment, etc.

Because, you have to know, that with a fault divorce the chances of one side coming to the table with NOTHING is very, very small. Even if that nothing had to be staged, provoked, set up or what have you. What are you always warning men about with WW's? False allegations of abuse.

Well... there ya go.

Family courts don't have the resources to do a thorough job to figure out what's real and what's not. And, no one really knows what goes on inside the marriage except the two people who are the MOST likely to perjure themselves if they think it means they get a bigger slice of the asset pie.

I'm not suggesting that what goes on now is fair - I'm just saying that the other side is unlikely to roll over and just come and admit that they were at fault if their mindset is getting a hold of assets/children/<whatever>.

Mys

2Long...I take it as a compliment to be included in any comparison to Mr. W (or Mrs. W for that matter).

And you are right...it doesn't.

You're welcome! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

But you need 2 recognize, therefore, that my compliment 2 you is none of your business either.

By definition, Pep's quote makes you an equal oppor2nity don't-give-a-sh!tter.

-ol' 2long <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

yep

Okay, here's a question:

Is the purpose of this thread, or your participation on MB, 2 be supportive or divisive?

If the latter, even in much approaching 50%, why not go elsewhere besides an infidelity survival board?

-ol' 2long

supportive for my participation here.
informative for this thread.


Whew...glad we got that out of the way 2Long. Now why don't you worry about yourself and what you do...and I will worry about me.

Your opinion of me is really none of my business.

BTW...there are some here that view you as divisive 2long. Perhaps it is time for you to go.

Orchid,

I don't think we're that far apart. I acknoweldge that I am one of the "luckier" BH's here, but it wasn't all "luck". First we had a very solid M before the A, which gave us a better foundation than most, PLUS I simply refused to be disrespected in my own home or humiliated further, which "shocked" my WW out of her fog much more quickly than many here experience.

It is just my personality, but I am a more proactive person, rather than being reactive.

My purpose here, other than learning more about myself and the anatomy of an A, is to help BH's who have lost their confidence and self-respect to regain their spirit and take back some measure of control over their own lives.

As a part of this though, is the very real understanding, that not all M are worth saving, and not all WW are worth having in the end, which I think is greatly misrepresented here at MB.

Each person has their own line to draw that they will not allow themselves to cross. After much contemplation, I KNOW that I couldn't R from a situation where my WW would continue the A after it was discovered, thereby "rubbing my face in it" or if she would ever become pregnant with the OM child. Both of these situations would proceed directly to Plan D for me. However, others have obviously done otherwise, with varying degrees of "success" as they may define it.

Therefore, for myself, someone such as K would be the LAST person I would take advice from as he has accepted BOTH of the situations that I could not tolerate, which probably explains why he and I can't see eye to eye. On the other hand, a BH with a pesonality and situation more similar to K could be greatly helped by someone like him.

IMHO, there are too many variables for any program to work in every situation. That's why I think it is VERY helpful to hear advice and stories from a variety of perspectives so a BH can sift through the myriad of situations for one that rings true for him.

Okay, that's good. But apparently you only intend 2 give advice, not accept it (how could you, if others' opinions don't get through the Pepquote filter?)


Which, 42nately isn't something I've had 2 worry about in my si2ation. I'll leave that 2 you and others.

[/quote]

Good. Because it won't bother you, then, that you remind me of a despair.com demotivator poster:

"It could be that the purpose of your life is only to serve as a warning to others."

And I don't say that 2 be mean (which wouldn't matter even if I did), it's just how I feel. Pep's quote, carried 2 this extreme, is isolationism. And on a public discussion forum, what use is that? For you? For the rest of us?


Cool. Maybe you and they should get 2gether and start a "Let's drive 2long from the boards" thread. Seriously, PLEASE DO.


Perhaps! Believe me, I'm trying like heck 2 leave here. But I keep getting emails and posts telling me I can't! (and for some reason, I keep giving a [censored] what the friends I've made here think of me. I also keep giving a [censored] what people who don't like about my posts - style and all - think of me, because if I can figure out what their grief is, and it makes sense, I might be able 2 better myself).

I wish it were simply your permission that would be all I need. Maybe you should become a mod? You could ban me! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

-ol' 2long

but I don't want you to go...seriously. You have stuff to offer people you reach...I think that's great.
but I reach some people too 2Long. I don't seek you out to run on about your posts...you seem obsessed with mine.

The fact that I find some of what you say to be disrespectful towards others is mine to deal with when it comes up.

Not for nothing 2Long, but there are a few people on this site that if they called me out on something, I would pay attention and have. You are just not one of them. I have extensive emails communications off board and consider some here to be my friends. I have been responsive to their suggestions....and most of those suggestions have been to stay the course. And I will.

Rather than running on about how and what I post, I suggest you and your clan use the little ignore feature. It works well. If not, please note for the last time that I am really not interested in continuing this banter.

Darn! I was hoping you could help me with my addiction 2 the boards!<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


Yes, you do. Your contributions 2 Jamesus' thread are appreciated.


Not you in particular. This board. And I am concerned that I do obsess.


Thanks.


So, it's good 2 see that the Pepquote barrier isn't soundproof. You're not entirely unwilling 2 listen 2 others.


What clan?? Might thou be paranoid, I wonder?




Noted.

-ol' 2long