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You have told posters what to post, where to post it, and asked posters to leave. I don't see ba109 and Marshmellow saying, "Hey, don't tell people how to post."


LA,

You're right. You didn't see me tell Bob not to tell people how to post. But, you didn't see me tell Orchid that either.

My beef is w/ her and others who want respect to be extended to troll/s.

~ Marsh

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Yet you waged war on two of them aggressively, with vitriol yourself, this past year and a half.

Show me where I did that.

But then again I know that yours and my views as to what constitutes vitriol and what constitutes moral behaviour are at huge variance.

There are very many people on God's green earth from whom I will take correction LA but you are not one of them.


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BobPure - Merry Christmas. I once said something very stupid and insensitive to you, and I want to apologize. You have always been such a good example of a man who will fight for his family, and I admire you.

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But for the record. Bob, don't tell people how to post. There, I said it.

Care to quote me where I have told people how to post ?

There's a whole lot of "IME"s, and " I think"s in there IIRC.

Mind you, I'm lying here in my vacation bed in Florida, with Squid asleep next to me, kids asleep across the hall after a wonderful Christmas eve in Orlando, a happy, loving, normal family earned by application of the very MB principles I seek to defend so in truth I have no stomach to argue. MB has worked for me.

Have a happy Christmas BA. My MB'ing is pretty much reserved for my church these days anyway.

ps don't read my stuff. Its overrated and the best stuff was peps, wats and melody lanes embedded anyway <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />


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Marshmallow: My beef is w/ her and others who want respect to be extended to troll/s.

Well Marsh, I can understand your beef then I realized you weren't around in 2004 or earlier. So just to help you see where I have stood on the subject of trolls, you may want to take a look at a thread just on this subject back in 2004 and earlier.

TROLL ALERT...... what t/d and not t/d (all suggestions of course) GQII Dec 2004


Example of a troll post back from 2004


More suggestions on how to deal with trolls Recovery Dec 2004

Question about troll hunting GQII Oct 2003

Diamond Girl Thread GQII Oct 2003


Example of how troll are id'd before confronting GQII Sept 2003

Calling the BS a TROLL????? (2002) Preg/Child Dec 2002

Agree to Disagree Respectfully!! (Preg/Child July 2002)

Be Careful - a warning of a troll sighting EN - Oct 2002

Reference to when the OW posts on MB GQII - Nov 2001


Well, it's taken me a while to compile the list. It is only a partial list. I concentrated primarily on the threads that spoke about trolls. If you take a look at it, you will find threads from many different boards here @ MB. The difference is how things were handled then and now.... we all had a learning curve. Take a look, you may find it interesting. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

NOTE: There are other threads where examples of how trolls actually posted are available.

I think this is the best I can do to explain my stance. For those who want to keep having a beef with me or think I support trolls AFTER reading these threads.....well you would have to have quite an imagination.

L.

Last edited by Orchid; 12/24/07 10:31 PM.
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B, it was the 1% shred of truth in that which stung the most. I didn't want to be that kind of man <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

You have a blessed Christmas too.


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Thanks Bob. Blessings to you and your family. I always quote your "hero's gig" to the men here.

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Care to quote me where I have told people how to post ?

Nope, I don't. I was just stating it for the record...in case you ever do. Trying to be consistant don'tcha know.

Have a Merry Christmas Bob.


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I always quote your "hero's gig" to the men here.

It worked on me.

And I refer newcomers to the toolkit every chance I get.

A little more respect and understanding around here would be refreshing. Especially today.

Merry Christmas, everyone.

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How did you determine what constitutes board rules and what are just suggestions?

Here's an excerpt from what Steve Harley wrote in 2002:

"Our community has grown to over 20,000 registered members, with countless more visitors who have chosen not to make their presence known. Our server generates more than 1.5 million page views each month and that’s just for our discussion board community alone. The past years have been an amazing period of growth.

However, what has been sad to witness is that some members of the community have failed to honor their commitment to following the rules and policies of the community and have willfully sought out to hurt and discourage other members of the community; members who are simply looking for support while learning about concepts and ideas that they feel will ultimately help them with their problem. This has typically occurred with a new member who is clearly here for the wrong reasons. But, from time to time has been experienced with a member who has been a part of the community for more than a few weeks.

What’s worse is that the amazingly dedicated volunteer deputies try to step in and address the renegade member, but when the member is unwilling to comply to redirection or continues to break their commitment to community rules, the deputies are only left with frustration because they cannot remove the offensive member. Only I, the Sheriff, can do that. And since the Sheriff is off doing other things, the time it takes for something to be done to address the problem can painfully create casualties within the community leaving other members also concerned about their own safety.

For that I am deeply sorry. I have been made aware of how a greater presence is needed by the Sheriff and a quicker response time is required so that the Marriage Builders community can become the safe, supportive, and great place it used to be. Although I am sorry for my absence, devoting more time to the community has not been presented as an option at this time.

Enter the new Sheriff!

The solution to our dilemma is the placement and introduction of our new Sheriff, Tempest. She is the original Deputy (Moderator) and has long been a well-known, respected, and skilled peacekeeper in our community. For the most part, Tempest has been carrying out the same responsibilities as the Sheriff for quite a while now. But as a Deputy, she has not had the access to the resources needed to actually be the Sheriff. Now she does. This will provide the community a greater sense of administrative involvement and support.

With the new Sheriff, what should you expect? First, I’d like to clear up some issues that have become quite cloudy over the years.

The Marriage Builders Discussion Forum is a PRIVATELY owned and funded community, which is owned and funded by Marriage Builders, Inc. Marriage Builders, Inc. defines the rules and policies that are to be followed in order to become and remain a member of the Marriage Builders community. In other words, if you believe that the discussion board is a public forum where free speech is a right to be exercised as you wish and that you can express yourself without any regard to how your words will affect other members, then you are grossly mistaken.

The Marriage Builders Discussion Forum is a private community open to only those who are willing to commit to following the rules and policies presented in the registration process. Noncompliance with these rules and policies is not an option.

Compliance with the rules and policies in no way means that you have to be in complete agreement with all Marriage Builders concepts and beliefs. However, keep in mind that this is the Marriage Builders site. If you have questions about how our concepts work, then that is fine. Post your questions. Wait for a response. Then carry on the discussion without any disrespectful judgments. Just know that criticizing someone else’s perspective because it is currently different than yours will not be tolerated.

Where is the line that separates a respectful discussion and a disrespectful discussion? If you’re not sure, then I strongly recommend that you start by using other members’ perspectives regarding your actions. "

Complete post is located HERE.

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Your vigilante logic is a bit over the top. No one on the board has the ability to censor, ban or otherwise remove another poster from the board with the exception of the moderators or administrators.


I quoted a definition, "a person who ignores due process of law and enacts his/her own form of justice when they deem the response of the authorities to be insufficient." and "certain volunteer associations (called vigilance committees) got together to blacklist, harass, banish, "tar and feather,... "

Is there or is there not a small group of participants who have expressed their right or duty to rid the forum of participants who they have determined shouldn't be here?

Banning and censoring aren't the only ways of exercising control.

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By your definition Orchid could also be labeled a vigilante for not leaving maggie's posts regarding BA up to the mods to deal with. She took "the law" into her own hands and tried to instill HER style of posting on maggie.


No.

There is no comparison.

Orchid made a reasonable request/suggestion.

She didn't call M a loser, a psychobabbler, a stirrer of pots, tell her she was throwing members under the bus, didn't question her motivations, didn't suggest that there were secrets if known would make others think less of her, didn't suggest that she was faking her marriage recovery, didn't suggest that the tone of her messages had suddenly changed negatively, suggest that she had an agenda, question her femininity...

Do you really see no difference between "ignore the trolls" and all of the above?

Did you find it at all interesting that M thought she was responding within the acceptable "tone" of the forum by telling someone to STFU? Where do you think she got that idea? From Mimi? Starfish? LA? K? Orchid?

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Sounds silly doesn't it. No, it sounds stupid.


No, it sounds like very poor reasoning.

Have you seen the name calling? Yes or no?
Who is doing the majority of name calling?

Have you seen long-term members who have provided support on these forums for years have their motivations questioned? Yes or no? Who is tarring Mimi, LA, Orchid, K, Starfish? Have you seen Mimi, LA, Orchid, K or Starfish consistently and persistently slamming other participants? Purposely twisting others words? Yes or no?

Do you really see no difference?

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Graplin,

Excellent post. Thanks for the reminder. Was it that long ago? Wow.

I did some research and posted some links (it was around the same time Steve posted). This was when we dealt with trolls and the ensuing discussions back in 2004 and before. It took a little while to find those posts and by the time I was ready to post it..... well it sort of got buried. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

It's about 5 posts before yours and well I think it w/b great if some could read your post and then see how it was applied. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Thanks again,
L.

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Thank you, Graplin...I want to bold this quote from Steve Harley from your post...answers a question for me that came up this year:

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Compliance with the rules and policies in no way means that you have to be in complete agreement with all Marriage Builders concepts and beliefs. However, keep in mind that this is the Marriage Builders site. If you have questions about how our concepts work, then that is fine. Post your questions. Wait for a response. Then carry on the discussion without any disrespectful judgments. Just know that criticizing someone else’s perspective because it is currently different than yours will not be tolerated.


I'm not changing a word...or adding to your post, Graplin. I am grateful for your clarity and eloquence.

LA

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Are you (rhetorical you) going to continue to treat this forum as if it is the Wild West and that you are a law unto yourself who does not have to comply with the forum rules?

"A vigilante is a person who ignores due process of law and enacts his/her own form of justice when they deem the response of the authorities to be insufficient."

"American vigilantism arose in the Deep South and Old West during the 1700s when, in the absence of a formal criminal justice system, certain volunteer associations (called vigilance committees) got together to blacklist, harass, banish, "tar and feather, {...}"

I disagree that a mob mentality exists on both sides of this issue. There are people whose actions have shown that they have assumed the responsibility to drive out posters they have deemed "criminal". And like vigilantism, it doesn't stop there. Forum citizens who say "we may be hanging people too soon" have had the vigilante ire turned upon them.

Accusing someone like Mimi of throwing forum members under the bus simply because she disagreed with their tactics. Accusing Orchid with the nebulous charge of changing her tone and that she's just stirring the pot. Accusing Loving Anyway of psycho babbling, telling people to beware of her, and then adding some insidious insinuation that there is something about LA that we don't know (and evidently this person does) that would change people's good opinion of her. Starfish accused of having an "agenda" as an indication of the impurity of her participation as compared to those who seem to consider their motivations unquestionably pure.

Have you seen a pattern of behavior from those members listed above questioning the motivation of other posters - especially those with whom they disagree? Of hinting of nefarious information that if we only knew would cause us to think less of them? Of name calling, of hubris?

I haven't.

Can you point out to me where the above listed posters have engaged in a level of ongoing vitriol toward others - different people at different times?

As someone pointed out earlier - we don't see any of those above participants in constant, repeated battles with different people on a regular basis. Whose names do almost always appear in the eventually locked threads?

Just like on Sesame Street - One of these things is not like the other.


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Quote:
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Your vigilante logic is a bit over the top. No one on the board has the ability to censor, ban or otherwise remove another poster from the board with the exception of the moderators or administrators.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I quoted a definition, "a person who ignores due process of law and enacts his/her own form of justice when they deem the response of the authorities to be insufficient." and "certain volunteer associations (called vigilance committees) got together to blacklist, harass, banish, "tar and feather,... "

Is there or is there not a small group of participants who have expressed their right or duty to rid the forum of participants who they have determined shouldn't be here?

Banning and censoring aren't the only ways of exercising control.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

By your definition Orchid could also be labeled a vigilante for not leaving maggie's posts regarding BA up to the mods to deal with. She took "the law" into her own hands and tried to instill HER style of posting on maggie. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No.

There is no comparison.

Orchid made a reasonable request/suggestion.

She didn't call M a loser, a psychobabbler, a stirrer of pots, tell her she was throwing members under the bus, didn't question her motivations, didn't suggest that there were secrets if known would make others think less of her, didn't suggest that she was faking her marriage recovery, didn't suggest that the tone of her messages had suddenly changed negatively, suggest that she had an agenda, question her femininity...

Do you really see no difference between "ignore the trolls" and all of the above?

Did you find it at all interesting that M thought she was responding within the acceptable "tone" of the forum by telling someone to STFU? Where do you think she got that idea? From Mimi? Starfish? LA? K? Orchid?


Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sounds silly doesn't it. No, it sounds stupid.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No, it sounds like very poor reasoning.

Have you seen the name calling? Yes or no?
Who is doing the majority of name calling?

Have you seen long-term members who have provided support on these forums for years have their motivations questioned? Yes or no? Who is tarring Mimi, LA, Orchid, K, Starfish? Have you seen Mimi, LA, Orchid, K or Starfish consistently and persistently slamming other participants? Purposely twisting others words? Yes or no?

Do you really see no difference?



WOW Great posts ... Worth Repeating

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