In general, make sure you meet the 'Four requirements for a successful marriage"

1. Care (Meet Emotional Needs)
2. Protection (Eliminate lovebusters)
3. Time (15 hrs/week of quality time with your spouse, meeting needs).
4. Honesty (Radical---complete, transparent honesty).

As PK suggests, focus on the good. If he has bad days (and there certainly may be some of those in store), then deal with it in a loving, supportive, manner. Don't blame, no excuses. If you do these things consistantly, you will rebuild romantic love in your marriage. That's where you want to be!

First, to let you know, I am a FWW, 2.5 years out. Don't think I made that clear. So, in many ways, I have been where you are now.

WWS, there will definitely be difficult days ahead for your husband. He's only human, and triggers abound at this stage. Don't allow yourself to be driven away if he is upset. It sounds antithetical, but move toward him. That is what I did.

You can also work on yourself, shore up your weak points that allowed you to stray. Conduct a fearless moral inventory, as the saying goes. Because it's not enough to stop being wayward; you have to identify what caused you to go in that direction and take the steps necessary so that it will not happen again.

This is where a therapist might help, if you are inclined to go that route. And while you can vent here, be aware that sometimes the best venting is done in the form of hard physical exercise. The next year will be very stressful. In order to keep a clear mind, you want the endorphins flowing. Is there an activity that you and your H could do together? Gym, tennis, etc.

You've made a great start, IMO.

PK

WWS,

You have definitely gotten some really great advice from other posters.

Keep reading, like many suggested. JL was very helpful in my situation to get me thinking in my DH's terms. I'm glad to see he posted here.

In regard to how you are feeling (guilty and such) I would highly recommend talking to your doc about cognitive behavioral therapy and/or doing research on it. It really helps when you start to beat yourself up and feel very bad about what you did.

It will help keep you focused on recovery and not self-pity. I did that for way too long.

I know you said you are in an are where books aren't readily available. Have you looked to see if any are available as e-books either audio or in print that you can download for a fee.

I know through our library many books can be checked out and downloaded. It's worth a try to see if some are available on line. I think it's worth a try.

Time is the key, it really is. There is no easy fix, but with hard work you can do this.

LC

K - You're 100% correct in the 4 things that you suggested. I've made a conscious effort to be sure that I'm doing all of these things. It may sound strange from the WS side of things, but it's not difficult at all for me to do these things. I want to be there for my husband, I want to be completely honest with him abut anything that he wants to know. Not just about the A, but anything at all. I want us to have an open and honest marriage and I want him to feel like he has the wife, lover, best friend and life partner that he chose a few years back. I'm completely committed to making this marriage the best that it can be. I'm not going to try to do anything, I'm just going to do it. He deserves more than trying.
PenaltyKill - I have to be honest, your name scares me a bit :-). I'll never drive him away. I have no right to get angry or defensive if he gets upset or if he wants to talk. I caused this. I caused the hurt and the pain and I've made him question his own self worth. I have no right to be angry with him over anything. When I see him in a moment, I ask him what he's thinking about, he generally makes something up, but we both know that's what he's doing, and we've talked about it. Sometimes it's enough. I've got a journal that I write to him in nightly. I've told him over and over that if he wants to talk, I'm here to listen, just listen and that I'll do whatever I can to help with the process. I've assured him that I'm always going to be here for him and that he didn't cause this. Truly he didn't. He's never done anything to deserve this.
LC - I've been doing as much reading as I can. I did a bit of research this morning on Cognitive behavioral therapy. I try to avoid the self-pity thing, but it's there. I feel so badly for all the pain and heartache that I've caused, but as my husband continues to tell me, I need to have a little faith that we'll get through this and I need to focus just on today, not yesterday, not 2 years ago and not tomorrow.
I haven't been able to locate the books yet...but I'm still looking for them!

WWS:

Don't be scared (but thanks for the laugh). I guess you're not a hockey fan. A penalty kill occurs when the team is down a player due to a penalty. The team has to "kill" the penalty time with fewer men on the ice.

The other team has a power play, as they have the man advantage.

I thought the name was apropos when I signed on.

PK

WWS,

I had a couple thoughts when I read your reply to K and PK.


Have you told him everything you stated here? If not, you should. Keep reminding him how much he means to you and what you would like to work toward. Don't be phony about it. When you feel it, tell him. It has to be sincere.



This is what I was talking about when I suggested you simply go up to him and say, "Honey I can tell you are thinking about somethings, I want you to know I understand how you feel and if you want to talk please let me know." Then drop it until he comes to you. Trust me eventually he will. Don't try to make him tell you what he is thinking, just tell him you know and understand. It took me a while to figure out to do this, but it had great results because when my DH was ready he did feel comfortable to open up.

If and when he does open up, let him talk w/o saying anything, even if you feel defensive. When he is finished talking, thank him for sharing.

It's a test of self-control for you to bite your tongue when you may want to defend yourself of whatever, but so well worth not saying anything because eventually these will turn into conversations.

You have to give him time. Remember you are a year ahead of him in all of this. You have had a year to process the info, he hasn't. (Great now I sound like my DH. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> He use to say this to me all the time early on after my confession.) My DH was just reading over my shoulder and chuckled as he walked away after he read this last part.

LC

LC - I've been trying to do that. He had a trigger this morning, and I saw tears in his eyes for just a second. It was heart breaking. I asked him what he was thinking, he said "nothing." I told him that I'm here if he wants to talk about it and that I love him. He didn't say anything for a minute, then he was walking behind me and he said, "you know what it is, don't you?" I, of course, did. I assured him that I love him and asked if there was anything I could do. He said no. I felt awful the rest of the afternoon. He was a bit tense, understandably, and I felt uncomfortable, which I think is understandable as well. I miss what we had. I miss it so much. But, at the same time, what we had wasn't honest. I remember when we got engaged. We were so in love, so happy. We're still in love, I know we are. Happy, well, that'll take time I suppose. I want the best for him. I want to make him happy again. I want us to be able to forget all of this in time. Doubt that'll ever happen though. One nice thing, last night, we were lying in bed talking for a few minutes. I told him that whenever he leaves bed in the morning I always roll over onto his pillow and it's always wet. He said half of its sweat, half of it's drool (sorry for that, lots of details, I know) but what he said next, must be a mix of the 2 girls, that really made me happy. I didn't mention it, because that might make it go away. I want him to know that she's his and little comments like that make me think he believes it himself.

WWS,

See how that works? You acknowledged his feelings and he shared a little. As time goes on he will start to share more.

It is positive that he is talking to someone. My DH didn't talk to anyone for a very long time. Keeping it bottled up didn't doing him any good.

Keep doing what you are doing.

Were you able to find any of the books yet?

Have you printed off the EN questionnaire from the site and filled it out? If not, see if he is willing to read the basic concepts on the site and fill it out. Besure he knows it relationship related not A related and maybe he will be open to the idea.

Edited to add: For a while my DH needed a lot of reassurance.
LC

Hi LC,

I have yet to find any of the books, we went far out from where we actually live, this morning, in hopes of finding them at a "normal" bookstore, there were none. Not overly surprised. I'm still working it out.

I haven't printed out and filled it out, although I have read through it and I've discussed the questions with him. We're meeting emotional needs on every level. So, that's a bonus. We've worked hard at that. Of course, he didn't know why we'd been working hard at though.... Well, not until 2 weeks ago. Yesterday at noon was 2 weeks ago that I told him. He's not one to remember dates and the like. I think in the long run, that will be a good thing for us.

WWS,

Our stories have a lot of similarities. We were working very hard at our relationship and like your DH mine did not know why the changes came about or why I was working so hard.

IMO, if you print the stuff out and ask him to fill it out, it makes it more real. Real in the sense that you really are serious about all this work and that you were serious before your confession. My guess he is feeling everything was fake up to this point. You have to gain that back. Know what I mean?

LC

I do. I understand what you mean. I don't think he feels it was fake, but I 100% agree that it'll make it more real, That it will give him something solid that he can see so he feels more that I'm working on things. Trust me (funny to hear that from someone that cheated on their husband) he knows that I want nothing more than him. I've made it very clear. I've been completely transparent. Completely loving. He told me early this morning that he really appreciates feeling this loved and nurtured.

WWS,

Keep up the very excellent work! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

K - Thank you. I'm trying really hard. I want my marriage to be a great one. I want us to look back in 10 years and have this barely be a blip on the radar. I want my husband to know how much he's loved, how much I want him.

WWS,

Been reading along and I think you have been getting great advice and I think you have been doing a good job.

A couple thoughts came to mind. First, your H is still really dealing with a very recent disclosure of the affair, so he probably isn't ready to talk because he is still confused and shocked. That will change.

The other is your statement "that I will doing anything he needs to recover this marriage." This is good to hear, and I am sure he takes some comfort from hearing it. However, you are getting frustrated aren't you??

So let's reverse engineer this thing and see how it would look to you.

1. Common sense says that the BS is badly hurt and needs the WS's support to recover. Right?

2. Common sense says that the WS should be walking on egg shells, for recovery to take place.

3. Common sense says that the WS must refrain from any conflict or anger causing behavior.

Now on the face of it this is what you are doing right? But, the one thing you are not listening to is your H. He is telling you to calm down "we will get through this". I think you will.

But, the reverse engineering part of this is what you are missing. More than anything your H will need to be needed by you. He is used to providing for you, he is used to protecting you. AND...here you are trying to do this for him. It really is not working is it? I mean he is probably more than delighted that you "will do anything", but the reality is you don't know what "anything is", do you?

So let's come at this from your side (reverse engineer if you will). Let's talk about what you need. Let's talk about YOUR triggers. Let's talk about what your H can do for you. Why? Well, you have to heal too. Right?

Further, the situation is more comfortable for you and HIM, if he is helping YOU heal. Right? So let's consider the possibility that the best way to help him heal is for him to help you heal. One thing that will help you heal is for you to make recompense for your affair right? But, you don't know how.

Consider the idea of have him listen to you as you tell him what you need. What would that be? It would help you to hear for his fears and pain right? It would help you to understand what he is thinking even if it is painful, right? It would help you if he held you and listened to you.
It would help you to discuss plans for how to make the marriage better, and make sure that you have a way to show him YOU are committed to him, right?

You are asking him to talk about himself, when perhaps you should be asking him to talk "with you" about your feelings, fears, and plans for the future, and YOUR NEED for his input into making this a better marriage. As he helps YOU recover, and make plans you will I suspect find that he will open up a bit. Better yet, discuss things in the "third person", don't discuss him, don't discuss you, ask hypothetical questions where neither of you are the focus, but only a situation.

What is weird is that often the BS heals better if THEY have something to do in this recovery. It gives them control and it makes them feel safer.

My point, he needs to be needed by you. You need to find a path to make recompense. You BOTH need a plan for the future based on what you have learned and what he has learned.

I hope something I have said may be of help.

God Bless,

JL

I continue to tell him what I need from him, although, I feel that my needs really shouldn't be that important now, but you're right. In order for this marriage to recover, my needs are important as well. I need him to love me. I need him to work with me to make our marriage the best that it can be. I need him to tell me what I can do to help him recover. I need him to remind me that here and now is what we're dealing with as well. Make today the best it can be. I know it sounds ridiculous still, but there was nothing he did. In reading some other posts, I think I had boundary issues. I don't have them anymore, at least, I don't think I do. I used to be okay with other men looking at me, but for the past year or so, I've hated when they do.

WWS,

I think from what you posted on my thread that we are in the ME together. I just wanted to let you know that there is cheap long distance to the U.S. ($0.05/minute) that you could use for MC with the Harleys that works over the internet on a dial-up connection called Net2Phone and you don't need a computer to use it, just a YapJack which you can purchase new for about $100 or so.

Also, you can bring books about adultery here, I just did two months ago. You just can't be espousing or performing A, which the Harleys definitely don't do so I wouldn't worry about importing the books. I'd be glad to make copies of the books for you to use and you can buy your own when you get back to the U.S. if we can figure out some way to get them to you. The books, MC with SH, and this forum have been a lifesaver for me and I believe FWW is starting to get the benefit of all of them as well now that her fog has lifted and she is mostly over withdrawl.

I think you are doing all the right things to help you and your BH get through this and you are getting really good advice from all the vets here. I have asked Mrs. Hurt to read your thread as I believe it will help her and us as well.

Let me know if I can help.

Hurt,
Hi, sorry it's taken me so long! I think that we must be in different parts of the ME, where I'm located, Net2Phone, Skype, all of it, is outlawed. Without disclosing too much, I'm in the GCC...you?
If we could find a way to photocopy your books, I'd be incredibly grateful..
How are you and Mrs. Hurt doing? I hope she's realizing that you're the only one for her. I know that I will never again do something to hurt my husband, he's the most amazing man I know. I have complete faith that he and I are going to make it through this okay. It's going to take time, but I'll be one of the success stories.

Thanks Hurt

we will:

It has been some time since I have been on this forum. Your thread caught my eye and although you have already recieved some great advice, I wanted to elaborate on a few things.

Marriages can recover successfully from an affair. The marriage can never be the same, the innocence is lost...but I do believe that the marriage can be better after an affair than before. My FWW had an affair many moons ago. There were a lot of reasons why that happened but none of them good reasons. One difference in my situation was that she did not tell me. I found out after many years of wondering why things just weren't right. Even though the A had ended long before, the guilt and deception was like a malignant tumor for our marriage. For all WS's, the first step to both personal and marital recovery is always radical honesty. You should be commended for taking the first step in the recovery process.

The principles espoused by the Harley's on this site were instrumental in allowing us to recover and improve our marriage. We are about 2 1/2 years post D-Day and more than 12 years after the AE. To this day, both my wife and I use RH and POJA everyday in our relationship. We work hard to meet each others EN and understand that those EN change over time. Had we known about the importance of these principles in a marriage, it is likely that we could have made our marriage affair proof before this ever happened. But the reality is that we didn't, the affair did happen, that is in the past and we have made the best out of the situation that we have. I would say that we are both happier now than at any time previous in our marriage. Our marriage is not better because of the A, it is better because of how we were able to work through all of the issues that not only allowed the A to happen in the first place but to reach down deep inside and address the really painful consequences of the choices made in our marriage, including her choice to fulfill her EN outside of our marriage.

Based on what I have gathered from your posts, it seems like that your BS is much like I was. On the outside, he is working hard to maintain control and is convinced that he can and will work through this. On the inside, it is a good bet that he is a wreck. In other posts, I described what the feelings were that I had in the first few months. It is a gutwrenching experience, combined with confusion, fear, anger, depression...the list could go on. The feelings are physical as well as emotional. I tell you this not to make you feel bad but to give you some insight into what he is going through.

It is a good thing that you both have started the process by laying some ground rules. Avoiding disrespectful judgements and angry outbursts are principals of the Harley's and are critical in trying to replenish the love bank. Like Believer, in an early post on this thread, I disagree with a ground rule that says there can be no discussion of details. In order to successfully rebuild and recover your marriage, the trust must be rebuilt. The easiest way to do this is to constantly reassure your BS that you are willing and trying to become a different person than the one who had an A. The WS that had an affair was deceitful and did not share important truths with her husband. The FWS who is recovering her marriage is willing to do whatever it takes to protect and nurture her BS. This includes being willing to share ANY details that the BS needs in order to move forward even if sharing those details causes excruiating pain for the WS.

The one emotion that is not talked about enough that I believe most BH have to deal with is fear and uncertainty. If, as you have described, there was nothing really obviously wrong with your relationship prior to the A it is likely that your husband was absolutely blindsided by this revelation. Probably the last thing that he thought could have possibly happened, has happened. Not only is this a huge jolt to his self esteem, it also takes a toll on his confidence in what he believes about everything. He is probably questioning many things that before he believed were absolute. It is your role in the recovery to help him regain his bearings.

I have often said on this forum that too often after D-day that the weight of the affair comes off of the WS and is placed firmly on the shoulders of the BS at a time when they are at their weakest. I believe that most BS of recovered marriage will tell you that they felt like they carried the bulk of the burden in recovering the marriage in the early stages. That can lead to resentment and resentment in turn can lead to all kinds of bad things including a break down of the recovery process and a revenge affair. To minimize resentment I believe that you as a WS can do the following:

1) Reassure your BH that you are willing to do whatever it takes to recover your marriage.
2) Continue to acknowledge that regardless of the reasons why the marriage was susceptible to an affair, that you and you alone are responsible for your choices to have that affair.
3) Immediately read everything you can about emotional needs, ask your BH to take the EN questionaire with you and do whatever you can to implement a great Plan A and meet his every EN way beyond his expectations. He has to deal with a lot of baggage that the A caused and that will never change...but you can be the wife that he never really thought was possible and that will help him work through looking towards the future instead of dwelling on the past.
4) Do not put timelines on the recovery. He wants this to be done as do you but every situation is a little different. Even well into recovery, there will be regressions and some of that empty feeling just never goes away. My FWW still feels remorse for her decisions and I still occassionally feel anger, resentment, entitlement or just plain pissed off when those lingering thoughts come around.
5) Be committed to making the principles of RH and POJA part of your relationship not just now but throughout the remainder of your marriage. They are good for relationships and they are good for you as an individual.

I think that my FWW and I would both agree that we are not proud of the path that brought us to the point we are today, but we are very proud of the actions we both took to get to this point after we had taken the wrong roads earlier in our lives to get us back on the right path.

Nottoday,
Thank you for your feedback. I want and need, the betrayed spouses to help me understand how he's feeling. I read your post earlier today and talked with him about it this evening. I didn't tell him that it's what you said, I told him how I felt.
You know, I've realized a really lousy thing tonight and shared it with my H. I can't love him enough to make this better. I love him more than anything. I can't imagine my life without him and on a daily basis I tell him how much he means to me and that I'm willing to do whatever it takes. I guess part of me thought that I could just love him enough and it would make things better. Well that was a load of self prescribed BullS)*&, wasn't it? I want to love him enough to make it better. I want to do the right thing and work through this. I don't want our marriage to have lost its innocence. I keep finding myself wishing (partly) that I hadn't told him. But, if I hadn't told him, our marriage would be a lie. I have to be honest, there are times that I question if the lie would be better than seeing him so hurt. I wish I could take the pain from him, not because I feel guilty for him hurting, but because he doesn't deserve to hurt like this. He's such a wonderful man. He works so hard for the kids and I. He's so thoughtful. Even through all of this, so thoughtful and attentive and being sure that he's meeting my needs. I'm trying. I really am. I want to be the best wife that I can. I'm committed to this marriage 100% and I want us to recover. Feeling pretty bad this evening. Sorry for the vent...

Hi WWS,

His hurt would only multiply every hour or day that you lived your lie. And so would your misery. Have you read anything about RIF's wife? She withheld her 9 affairs from him (deployed military) for over 10 years. Then she had a nervous breakdown and had to recover from that as well as her confessions of everything that had been eating away at her for all those years.


Why consider backtracking? Look to the future. You've told him about your A, he's still with you. (And it sounds like many WW would give anything to have your BH for a spouse after they confessed.) Start from here and look forward to the new beginning.

Maybe you could think like as if you were entering a store with an empty shopping cart. What would you pick off the shelves to fill you cart with in the 'marriage and family' section?

Adventure?

Family games?

Weekly dates?

Sharing of goals?

Reading MB books (when you can access some)?

Realize that you've made the decision to dump the prior A cr*p out of your cart, but some of it still may have residue clinging to its edges. Your personal recovery could be like the cloth that wipes the residue off your new life. (Yes, the paternity issue is part of that residue needing to be addressed eventually.)

I have no clue if that makes any sense so take what works and discard the rest. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Best wishes,

Ace