Thanks K, that's exactly why I'm here. My brain is a mess right now.

There is a couple of things I'm checking on first with reguards to him. So I'll get more info soon.

K, it is MB advice. YOU may have counseled with Steve....******edit*********

Other people here that have counseled with the Harley's...that consider them friends...would disagree with your position for waiting.

The HARM that could be done is extensive. He could wind up with a child from the other man. He could lose his wife for good if that happens. he could wind up with an STD... heck, he could wind up in a position where he doesn't have sex with his own wife for ten years. Lots of damage can be done.

OK, seek out Mr W, Mrs W, melodylane...these vets know the Harley's. I am not suggesting you don't get a plan...but don't sit back and delay what could be a devastating blow to this affair.

Hi Okie,

OK, four kids is a lot of responsibility for you here. You're absolutely right, while she has contact with him, her recovery will be difficult, if not impossible. The good news is that she has moved back, and that means that your chances have improved dramatically. Also---the fact that she moved out and left you with the kids is good for you in several ways (she likely doesn't want to abandon the family, it provides you ammo should this thing go down the divorce road, etc.). Be very happy you have her back, and do an excellent job working on Lovebusters and those needs that she'll allow you to meet.

Torn Asunder and the Five Love Languages are both good books. I highly recommend the Harley library (starting with SAA).

Will you be able to do some counseling? That's your best weapon here---and you can start it yourself, with no need to 'bother' your wife (offer it, but if she refuses, say that you want to do it yourself so that you can help make this marriage a better place for her).

What's her mood like? How long has she been home? Is she willing to find another job? Write a 'no contact' letter? How do you think she'd feel about exposing this guy to managment and having him fired?

MEDC,

You may be confusing this site for ****** When you can show me anywhere on this site where immediate, widespread exposure is advised, you link to it. The only place person you must expose an affair to is your wayward spouse---and you can even delay that if you need to collect evidence. Otherwise, this policy is not in Surviving an Affair. It's not in the articles, the Q/A's, the concepts---or anywhere else on the site.

The Harley's use exposure as a tactical method, depending on circumstances AND the people involved. Of the many people I've talked to who do know the Harley's---I have never gotten a different answer. You'll be happy to know that I have emailed them to ask that they address this issue with written guidance that can be posted on this site, but I am very sure that I remember what Steve and I discussed regarding this.

You also advocate a method that could land a devestating blow to their marriage, as well as push the lovers back together. Have you counseled with the Harley's MEDC? No?

Plan first, then action... duh.

She actually took the kids with her to her mom and dad's at the time. She's only been home one day. Her mood was depressed. But she knows the right thing to do is to stay together. She worries that she won't fall in love with me again. I worry too. But I think if I treat like I should it should help. I am getting counseling. I told her it is the only way we can stay together. I think we are on the right track, but I know that although there is no more physical contact, they do see each other. That's what has me screwed up.

did I say widespread exposure...NO...I said to his employer.

And while I may not have counseled with the Harley's...I have spent two plus years learning from the Wonderings, Melody etc...and know what I learned from them and their truly recovered marriages is NOT what I am hearing from you.

DUH.

Okie,

It certainly is not good that they're working together, and that will have a profound effect on her ability to get into recovery. Would she consider a transfer to another store, or to get a different job?

Her depression is a sign that she's going through the 'withdrawal' aspect of leaving an affair. Affairs can be very similar to chemical addictions, and I'm more comfortable with her being depressed at this point then 'happy'. If she gets happy really quick, you can probably bet that there's been more contact.

I'm happy that you're getting counseling, but I'm still going to harp on you with regards to working with the Harley's. They do an excellent job with regards to helping end an affair and guiding the WS (and you too) on the path of early recovery. It's a critical time right now, so the sooner you do this, the better.

okie...please email me if you get the chance. my email is attached to my account here.

I would also make a point to search out Mr W and Mrs W.

This is from pepperband.

This is exactly what the Harley's deal with in the counseling.

I KNOW the cost seems huge, but as someone told me once, it is a lot cheaper than divorce.

My FWH and I have been counseling with them since November. Many of the concepts are clarified in detail when you are counseling with them. It is so worth the money, especially if you or your wife feeling you may not be able to restore your love for each other. THAT IS the whole point of their counseling.

It is not long term counseling. You accomplish much more than you will with another approach. I encourage you to call the Harley's. If it was your only chance at saving your family, would you then feel it is worth the cost??? Do you think divorce will be cheaper??? It won't. And the consequences of divorce will be devastating to not only you and your wife, but to your children as well. Give them your very best fight by calling the Harley's.

It sounds to me like there is ongoing contact, since he is an assit. manager at the store. She may be depressed, but there is no no contact established. Am I right? Also, it sounds like the other man's wife is aware of the affair, but I can't tell how she is aware of it.

It seems reasonable to me at this point that the company be made aware of the inappropriate employee/employer relationship that has taken place and that you expect that some action will be taken to make sure that the relationship does not continue.

It is also an option to obtain communication with the other man's blameless wife. She could help you ensure no contact.

OK,

As of late, whether to expose or not has become a rather contentuous subject around here. Since my FWH's had ended badly with him having no positive feelings or memories of OW, I never had to expose his affair to anyone to end it.

I guess, possibly for you, since your WW works daily with OM, you might simply want to feel her out on her willingness to quit her job or transfer to a different location where she can maintain NC.

I can tell you that dispite the OW living 3000 miles away from us, recovery was very difficult for us. IMHO, had my FWH continued to work with or have any contact with OW, well I am pretty sure that I would be divorced today.

Knowing and wondering every single day he walked out the door to work whether he would be talking to her, or having lunch with her would have driven me crazy.

Sorry, but I do not know of a single marriage recovered here on MB where there was still contact.

If your WW willingly leaves her job, like now, then you may be able to avoid contacting upper management at her job, but if she doesn't, then I don't see how you can avoid it.

Who

SMB---thanks for that. There is no doubt that you get so much more out of a few sessions with them than you do just by reading the books---it's something that has always amazed me.

Okie---there are times where I'm happy to tell someone to consider going the DIY route, and helping them on the way with 'board counseling' here. This my friend, is NOT one of those times.

I believe the number is 888-639-1639 for appointments. But check the link... it has been years since I've called.

Okie,

Agree with the $$for counseling with the Harleys. Worth every penny, no question. My marriage would simply not have recovered without it.

Who

I am one of those that didn't expose (my FWW and the OM used to work together). I sincerely regret that decision - I should have exposed as soon as I found out about the A. My FWW and the OM continued to work together for several months post D-Day, and that IMO not only significantly delayed the recovery of our M, but resulted in me playing a part in insulating the OM from the consequences of his choices.

If you're a fan of being slowly tortured, continue to say nothing while your WW continues to work with the OM.

No I'm not. That's the hardest part right now.

Okie,

Something to remember here regarding exposure. The consequences of exposure to management at your WW's employer, are not your responsibility, but will be the result of the behavoir of she and the OM.

Sure your WW will be angry, but keep in mind, if there is disciplinary action taken, it is because of something she and OM did, not your exposure of it.

Both she and OM are fully aware that what they have done is wrong and could cost them both their jobs. They made a choice to take that chance.

Who

Okie,

I can certainly understand and sympathize with your situation (I was a BS myself). With regard to 'exposure', you have to decide what your goal is. It seem like the major goal is to get the two of them separated from the workplace. With that stated goal---there are many methods to achieve this. Harley would usually recommend 'The Policy of Joint Agreement' and Safe Negotiations (both under 'concepts' section here) as a first attempt. These principles can be difficult to learn under normal circumstances, let alone the emotional circumstances concerning an affair and trying to negoiate your depressed WS to stay away from OM.

That's why I really think you should call the Harley's and set up that appointment.

Two things,
First, I think the policy of joint agreement and Safe Negotiations is not a place to start when you are dealing with a wayward wife who has just moved back into the family home who says she still loves the other man who she sees regularly at work. How can you get any kind of joint agreement with someone who is still involved in the fog of an affair?

Second, I am not providing counseling here. K is not providing counseling here. We on these boards are not counselors. We are people who's lives have been touched by infidelity. We provice suggestions based on life experiences. That is something very different from "counseling."

Oh, and there is a third thing. Sure one goal is to get the two waywards separated. But it is also important to de-mystify, de-glorify the affair itself. When an affair is a secret, it can take on glorified wonderfulness and rightness to the affair partners. Exposing the affair to the light of day, letting others know about the affair, helps to show the affair for what it is-- a lie, a betrayal, an affront to vows taken. This is another reason to expose to the workplace.

Hi Lake,


Indeed, it doesn't seem to be a normal place to start with these techniques. But it is exactly what I worked with Steve Harley on over 10 years ago. I would prefer that Okieflyer get this advice right from the horses (Harley) mouth.

Which addresses the second point. While it's fine to play a counselor on the internet---it really helps to have a pro. So--- 888-639-1639.

That is exactly what I was thinking. It seems to me that POJA and negotiations comes later. In our counseling with Jennifer, she first focused on things like:

no contact letter, extraordinary precautions (transparency, protecting love bank from others, etc.)

then

emotional needs and how to share them safely

then

dealing with triggers

then

love busters and how to share them safely

then

point of joint agreement and negotiation


So, we were 4 or so weeks into counseling with Jennifer before she introduced us to POJA and negotiations.




well said.



agreed.


My best advice, however, is still to call the Harleys. If there is no possible way to do that, I can only offer what I learned from these boards (because I was not in counseling with the Harley's when A was active). MelodyLane and MEDC and others suggested exposure, and I did it. And FWH was furious, but now is thankful for the tough love he received.