You have brought tears to my eyes.

Take a step back from the drama and realize you are at the point of finally getting IT. And now you can truly begin the process of recovery for yourself. I know it feels terrible but it is the best place in the world. It's called a bottom! and it is just as necessary for you to hit a bottom as it is for your alcoholic.

The first step in AA and Al-Anon is "Admitted we were powerless over alcohol and that our lives had become un-manageable" -----

We are powerless over alcohol no matter matter who consumes it!!

We are powerless over the alcoholic weather drunk or sober!!

Being aware of the problem and being willing to do whatever it takes to recover is a FREEDOM that you begin NOW.

Many great suggestions on this thread so far!!

Hang in there ((((((((((Julie))))))))))

Well great, we're both crying.

OK so I'm taking the kids to the library - maybe we'll move on to a book store thereafter, they usually have areas where kids can go off on their own.

tst, what do YOU think about our living arrangement? Push him out or let him stay/run his own drunk show while I get help for me? Tonight is SURE to be a drunk night. If I'm lucky, he'll leave it at that. Read: not going home w/some bar tramp or something. He's obviously very vulnerable.

You can look up Alcoholics Anonomous in the phone book and call them. They can get you in touch with another Al-Anon member - and ask them to come over to visit or go with them for a cup of coffee.... you are not stuck....you have so many options and choices.

Exercise your freedom to ask for help. These people will reach out for you!!

Remember you may not like them at first, but they kinda grow on you.

I recommend you just worry about today! and getting to a meeting! Arrive early and stay late, bring up the problem you have right at the beginning of the meeting and sit back and listen........remember to listen to all options they suggest even if you think they might not apply right now - they may apply down the road.

Unless you are being forced to make a decision that may alter your life forever.......procrastinate today all life altering decisions...... (step back from the drama)

Julie,

I agree with tst here---try to take this one day at a time. Push off any major decisions. Get to AlAnon meetings and see how this works for you. I'd give this at least a month before you make a decision to move to a Plan B separation.

Continue to be honest with your husband. Let him know that you would like him to quit the drinking and smoking---and that you'd like to see him in AA or another substance abuse program. You don't need to harp on this, but make sure that he hears and understands that message.

OK, thank you K, that is solid advice & I will do that. K, do you know that he dumped me, so to speak, last night? I don't want to be rude so I'm sorry if I sound that way but last night he talked for 10 minutes (I just listened) about how this isn't going to work, it's been years & nothing's changed, this isn't how he imagined his life...we're both at fault & the answer is for him to leave.

So, he may leave anyway, at his own accord.

A friend who's been in AlAnon for 4 years, whose husband DID recover, is suggesting maybe I have his mom take him in. That the "consequence" to this "decision" be me telling him you want out, then get OUT.

I see your point & the validity in waiting, but I don't know that he'll hang for an entire month. I know none of you has the answers for me but I don't even know HOW to get thru today, well enough to get thru today!

Friend from work who goes to AlAnon has a sponsor & said we could meet with said sponsor one-on-one. I'm not sure why or what that'd help, but what have I got to lose? Going to make arrangements for my kids to get out of this stupd environment for a while.

tst, what do YOU think about our living arrangement? Push him out or let him stay/run his own drunk show while I get help for me? Tonight is SURE to be a drunk night. If I'm lucky, he'll leave it at that. Read: not going home w/some bar tramp or something. He's obviously very vulnerable.

I am not tst (nor do I play one on tv) yet I feel compelled to answer this question.

Ask yourself a few questions and it will determine what you should do.

Are you willing to risk EVERYTHING you have and hope to have when he has a drunken accident and kills someone?

Are you willing to risk financial ruin when your assests are taken in a civil suit resulting from a drunken accident?

Are you willing to risk your home?
Are you willing to risk your auto?

You and your children will be on the streets if you continue
to align yourself with this drunk and DRUG user.

MJ is a drug that he is using ON THE JOB.

His senses are impaired and he is sure to lose his job if this drug abuse is discovered.

If he has been using and drinking since he was 14, you bound to have known before you married him.

Were you thinking that he would grow out of it and stop once married?

You owe it to your children to provide a financially safe environment for them. Take whatever measures you must.

I get the feeling that you are somewhat po'ed that HE is the one that is deciding the fate of the marriage.

You have as much power if it means that much to you.

If he has these drunken fits of rage I would think that you would not want him home...so what if he goes home with a bar tramp. At least, the children will be safe from those rages and fights between the two of you.

He's vulnerable??? STOP enabling him.

He is NOT anything other than a drunk who cares about nothing but his bottle.

jmho
committed

OH, and I exposed. I don't know if it's the right thing to do in dealing with substance abuse, but I remember it from dealing w/WS. Plus I'm sick of his mom & sister thinking he's some kind of hero just because he's perfected the facade. So, I sent them a big, long, 4-year-wide email detailing his problem. This may or may not help me in the days/weeks/months to come.

Having a drunk/stoned father at home is going to effect these children for the rest of their lives - your daughter will marry a "drunk like my Dad" hoping to "fix" him - much like you

You are not doing these kids a favor by keeping an addict in the house - before you get your knickers in a bunch - remember, I am one who can say "been there done that" - go to Al-Anon and take the 11 year old with you - they have meetings for kids -

DD11 is starting early - at age 11 - trying to control an addict she deeply loves ....

a pattern she may follow for life

thinking that if she just loves him enough, he'll see the light and change his ways

she will gradually take over a more adult role with her Dad - missing out on her childhood

this is not about YOU and what you "want"

not about your feelings

this involves children, and will effect how they manage or mismanage their lives

no excuses

http://www.al-anonfamilygroups.org/meetings/meeting.html

YOU cannot control what other's think

stop trying

Thanks Pep, I'd wondered if you'd chime in. You are absolutely right, and I hate that. She really resents me sitting here, weak, crying too. I see it in her and I remember it in me as a kid.

She was VERY affectionate with him that night. Wouldn't leave his side. You pinned it!

I'm not making excuses. Neither of us has said anything to the kids (they obviously know we're stressed/not talking/probably well aware of the pattern - dad's going to leave soon) & I was working on a plan for them to go to Grandma's tonight, to remove them from the crap-house and give me a chance to meet with this AlAnonsponsor. DD also has her own IC, who she hasn't seen in a while, we can start that back up.

Thanks Committed:

Are you willing to risk EVERYTHING you have and hope to have when he has a drunken accident and kills someone?
[color:"red"] NO [/color]
Are you willing to risk financial ruin when your assests are taken in a civil suit resulting from a drunken accident?
[color:"red"] NO [/color]
Are you willing to risk your home?
[color:"red"] NO [/color]
Are you willing to risk your auto?
[color:"red"] NO [/color]

You and your children will be on the streets if you continue
to align yourself with this drunk and DRUG user.
[color:"red"] I agree, and I've said that to him many times. But he always convinced me... [/color]
MJ is a drug that he is using ON THE JOB.

His senses are impaired and he is sure to lose his job if this drug abuse is discovered.
[color:"red"] I wish, sort of. He's self employed. [/color]

If he has been using and drinking since he was 14, you bound to have known before you married him.

Were you thinking that he would grow out of it and stop once married?
[color:"red"] Yes! Foolish? Of course! But I partied too...then I grew up. Clearly I was the only one. What brought us together then, is tearing us apart now. [/color]

You owe it to your children to provide a financially safe environment for them. Take whatever measures you must.

I get the feeling that you are somewhat po'ed that HE is the one that is deciding the fate of the marriage.
[color:"red"] Yes! And I know that is sick & twisted...but it's not fair that I'll struggle to make payments & quell kids' crying & fake the smile...while he lives the party life w/whomever takes him in! We didn't sign up for this! I've stood by him & I'm still being bitten for it! [/color]

You have as much power if it means that much to you.
[color:"red"] I think this is what I need to get thru my thick skull. Because I feel powerless. [/color]

If he has these drunken fits of rage I would think that you would not want him home...so what if he goes home with a bar tramp. At least, the children will be safe from those rages and fights between the two of you.
[color:"red"] You're sounding like, in your opinion or if this were you, this marriage is over. I know it's easier on the other (your) side, right now. I hope to get there too, I really do. [/color]

He's vulnerable??? STOP enabling him.
[color:"red"] Yes, he is. And OK. [/color]

He is NOT anything other than a drunk who cares about nothing but his bottle.
[color:"red"] Are you sure? Cuz he's not drinking right now. He doesn't drink every day. I don't mean to sound like the village idiot, though I know I am. You see, a drunk is my dad - and H isn't much like him at all. I know they come in all shapes & sizes, but I've done a pretty good job so far convincing myself he's not an alcoholic. And he's dumped me because I'm a horrible wife. Still. [/color]

Julie,

I have been a recovering drug addict & recovering alcoholic for 25 years. I have worked with many sick/active alcoholics. Your situation sounds soooooo much like the many I know.

Unless you or your children are experiencing physical abuse, then there is nothing wrong with waiting to make your decisions.

All these questions of blame and shame do nothing but add to your drama..
Step back from all this and look forward - this is how we make it through the moment and gradually through the day.

Talk face to face with some Al-Anon members and STOP with all the questions for right now.

You cannot begin a process/plan forward if you are busy drudging up all the drama of the past-IT DOES NOT HELP!

Get to your meeting

Praying for you today

So, how is that working for you?

Your children are living in a "crap-house"..this is a word that YOU use to describe it.

H & I haven't spoken since our angry/his drunken fight last Thursday.

Was there anything physical going on at this fight?

Were objects or insults "hurled".... because it DOES constitute abuse if any of that happened.

Tonight is SURE to be a drunk night.

Maybe not drinking right now at this very second, but you seem quite sure that it is just around the corner.

Does that mean that another "fight" is just around the corner too?

If you want to live with a drunk and a drug abuser that is your choice. Your children are subjected to it without having a choice in the matter. Shoot, they don't know enough to be able to make a right choice concerning it. YOU do.

committed

Julie,

Get to your meeting. Connect with some women there. Talk with them again tomorrow and the next day. They will help you come to clarity with what you are facing.

I am concerned for your children. But the truth is, they've been living as children of an alcoholic their whole lives. A few more days or weeks in the home (as long as he is not a threat to their safety) isn't going to do anymore harm than what they have already suffered. I am NOT saying that living this life throughout their childhoods won't leave lasting damage. WE ALL know that it will (including Julie). I AM saying that taking a few days or weeks to connect with local Al-Anon members is a reasonable choice for you.

You will find help there. You will find support there. You will find people who've been there done that...and recovered. Go and be honest. Look for people who've been around awhile and let them take you under their wing.

It's not WORKING. People don't/I didn't come here or go to AlAnon or any of the above because it's WORKING!

NOTHING physical in THIS fight. Yes, in the past, indeed stuff was hurled, ripped, stomped, thrown, broken, shattered...

I think it's safe to say another fight is NOT around the corner considering he's called this marriage OVER, therefore there's no saying he'll come home at all or when he does, I'll wake up & badger him but what do I know? If I had a crystal ball...

I don't want to live with a drunk and a drug abuser. I'm obviously sick right along with him. That's why I'm getting the kids to Grandma's house. It's why I'm going to a meeting or a one-on-one w/sponsor or both tonight. It's WHY I'm desperately asking anyone who knows better than me right now, for some direction. Where's the handbook!?

Julie,

I am so sorry you are dealing with this. I wish we could peer into that magic ball and tell you it's all going to be alright. But, truly, we don't know anymore than you do if your WS will stop using.

What some of here DO KNOW, is that recovery can be in YOUR and YOUR CHILDREN'S future. Your WS has to make that choice on his own. There may be things you can do to help facilitate him reaching his bottom. But that is out of the MB spectrum. That is why those of us familiar with recovering from addiction or those of us who have/do love addicts are sending you to Al-Anon.

Just as we who have lived through infidelity often can offer support, enouragement, and really good advice to those living it, we who have/do love an addict can offer support, encouragement, and really good advice to those living it.

It sounds like you are taking the necessary steps to get yourself to a meeting. That is good. Just keep focused on that right now. Don't try to make a decision right this minute about what to do with your marriage. You will get the help on that as you get connected with Al-Anon. I am not saying you can't find help here. But you do NEED some IRL people at your side to help you through this.

I hope you can arrange it to do the meeting and the one-on-one with your friend's sponsor.

I have not lived with a drunk. But I did marry a recovering alcoholic/addict. I was blessed to not face the destruction of an active user. But I have sat at many AA and Al-Anon tables. I attended Al-Anon for a few years, just to help me understand who I married. There are many loving people there who know how to set boundaries, who know how to love an active user and still love themselves, who know how to detach from the user and take steps toward personal recovery (even without leaving the alcoholic). And your children can go to open meetings with you and learn a lot (but not tonight, you need tonight).

I don't know the right answer for you. And even though some here seem to think they do, none of us know the plans God has for you, your children, or your husband.

You will get through this and be stronger and healthier on the other side. One day at a time...today, it's a meeting. That's a step toward recovery.

Went to the meeting. We actually met @Starbuck's for an hour beforehand, that was nice. Well not really but it was nice of them to have sat & listened as I cried & felt sorry for myself, lost.

I'll go back, I can't think of a reason not to. "This isn't for me" sure didn't cross my mind. H still isn't home, band practice was done 2 hrs ago. Round and round HE goes.

Just thought I'd update y'all. You may be shocked (heh) to hear I still don't have all the answers. I don't know if I'll talk to H, or fill the kids in, or write him a letter, or even go to work tomorrow. Right now I'm tired, good night.

You are going to wear yourself out worrying about what your H does while he's drinking.

Best thing you can do for yourself and those kids is to get yourselves away from him, IMO, until he is sober and seeking counseling.

My H is a "recovering" alcholic for 12 years now. After we were married for two years, he didn't come home on Christmas Eve until the wee hours of the morning. I had to get a neighbor to drive him to the storage unit to get the kids presents to put under the tree. He was suppose to paint our daughter's new doll house that night to have it ready for her on Christmas morning. He did it anyway and it looked awful, because he was drunk.

Anyway, I had had enough by that point. Didn't talk to him the whole Christmas day. I asked him for a divorce that night. He didn't like where his drinking led him so he joined AA and quit drinking.

But fair warning.....drinking is just a symptom of other problems. He quit drinking but never got to the root of the problems of why he drunk in the first place so he took up other addictions, like reading, video games, women, etc. Please remember this, if he does stop drinking, he'll probably need more than just AA. I think individual and marriage counseling would be a requirement to survive a marriage with him.

I'm so sorry for your pain. I know you didn't ask for this.