Hello.

H is out of the house. I went to work & my boss "counseled" me for a while, and my friend there who went to the AlAnon meeting w/me last night did too. I decided to come up with a plan, so I left work early, the kids were at the library so I was able to talk to H, I said...

"I understand you feel it's best to leave. I don't want you to leave, I seldom do, but I want peace. I've found help for me & the kids and I plan to keep up with it. I also think you need help but I understand you aren't willing to accept that. If you would like to stay and work on our marriage, you are welcome to - but I need a sober/clean marriage - NO alcohol/other. If you choose not to get help, I will accept that, but you will need to gather your things & go then"

H wanted to argue - "so you're blaming this all on alcohol, you have no fault?" I said I've been sick with you, and I'm getting help, which I'd do with him if he were to get it." he said, "Are they going to help you with your problems? With your internet addiction (I'm on this thing too much, especially when I want to escape him)? Your animal addiction (I have a horse, he resents that)? That you're a slob (house is never as clean as he wants it to be)?" I said yes, I'm definitely working on me, with or without you. He said it's not fair, how can he leave right now, he has nowhere to go/no money. I gave him 2 hours and reiterated he is welcome to stay & get help.

Picked up the kids, explained what's going on, they're sad & mad, they're not sure if they want to go to meetings & they know that right now, they don't want to see him. Came back home & he's gone.

Well, at least THAT part is done.

Moving on...

Julie

<<<<Hugs>>>>

Addicts need to hit bottom to see how their choices affect people around them. Hopefully this helps. And I'm married to a 'animal addict' as well (we share the addiction). You sound like you handled the conversation pretty well. You might want to study up on Plan B with regards to giving him a written letter, should you want this separation to continue until he's done with the affair, and is sober.

There's no affair! Unless you call the bottle the other woman.

I'm not joking. Sorry if I wasn't clear. There's no OW.

Jack Daniels wouldn't like being called an OW...

I'm sorry---I thought I had seen a brief mention of an affair. Still, a Plan B letter is probably appropriate. His 'no contact' means clean and sober. I don't know how Harley approaches this situation from a practical nut-n-bolts perspective; but the general advice is that he needs to be sober before you can work on the marriage. And you've offered to work on the marriage---once he's sober.

So, you're doing good. Is he out of the house now for good, or until he feels like wandering back?

Screw Jack Daniels, home wrecker!!

Um, to answer your question, I guess we'll see. I was wrong to argue today. I heard it more than once last night that there is little logic living between his ears right now, and I would have been better off saying, "No" when he asked if he could respond. He sucked me in. Again. And AlAnon is going to help me get better at avoiding that. And just generally being more confident & strong. I look forward to that.

He knows he's "welcome to return" but he also knows I'm just choosing a scapegoat - alcohol - so while part of me expects him to come back, like he always does, the other part is really afraid of that, because I always get sucked back in & believe the lines & buy the excuses. I need to work on ME and MY KIDS for a while so I can be better prepared for the future - whatever it may bring.

Just read your thread, and I have to tell you that I am SO PROUD OF YOU!
sister - You Rock!!

Walking into that meeting the other day had to very hard for you - but you did it anyway. And when you continue to follow through, and get stronger, you will be teaching yoru daughter a very valuable lesson.

One thing I wanted to share with you - when my WxH first left, I went through a lot of the same "How come HE dumped ME? I worked so hard for him, and let him get away with so much crap, but I am the one who is alone, and he is off playing with his friends"

And a friend of mine said "He is sick. And he needs to go off and be with other sick people, so that he can feel like his life is "normal"

I hope that makes a little bit of sense. Your H did not leave you because you were a "bad wife" that is just his excuse. He left you, because when he compares his life to yours, he realizes that he is doing something wrong. But when he compares his life to his drinking buddies, he looks just like everyone else. It makes it easier to justify his bad behavior.

When he tells you that HE is leaving YOU - pat yourself on the back. It is not because you are not good enough. it is because you look too good.

But go ahead and look too good. Its ok. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Good job, Julie! You did fine.

Alanon will help you NOT get sucked in again. It will take some time, but soon you will see through his arguments.

And if alcohol isn't a problem, it will be easy for him to stop drinking completely.

Thanks you two, that means a lot. I go between feeling liberated & empowered, to feeling like a total weakling & wanting to beg him to come home.

Pep's post yesterday about my daughter really struck a nerve though, and though it's childish, I had to get to them first - tell them what's going on, explain he's sick - not a monster, not bad, but sick - and he doesn't want help. What a horrible, horrible thing to tell my kids!

No meeting tonight. It was my plan, after I canceled plans to go out drinking w/friends, but I'm going to hang w/the kids & watch movies. They need me. There's a handful of meetings tomorrow & I know which one I'll attend.

I still go between wanting this marriage & not...I wish I knew what's next. But I definitely look forward to having a support group. And it's free! If y'all don't mind I'll still hang around here a bit too. Though I did promise the kids I'd cut computer time too. Baby steps...

Kudos on your first step - recognizing that you are powerless over your husband's drinking; taking a stance to work on yourself, and inviting him to be home - sober, was terrific.

It will be tough - 90 meetings in 90 days is what a committed-to-recovery alcoholic does to get clean. You may want to at least make contact with a sponsor and work through the inventories - especially your 4th step - immerse yourself in it so that you don't have time to miss him and slip on your bottom lines.

edited for clarification on who's doing the drinking.

JW:

I applaud you for going to the meeting!

Keep going.

You have a FOOT on the road to your own personal recovery.

Keep walking.

That's all that matters now.

I wanted to point out some things for when your H returns Sunday:


and then:


Your children are living with TWO alcoholics, aren't they?

I did. Dad drank much more, but Mom always was knocking some back.

The first quote offers you insight into some of the things that need to be addressed in your marriage.

Your Lovebusters.
Your Disrespectful Judgements
The internet (And you haven't been HERE)
Your Horse
The messy house.

Until the Alchohol issue is addressed, the above issues are secondary and cloud the issue.

Al-Anon will help you. AA as well.

The first quote states simply, for probably the first time in a long time, with out LB's and DJ's, that you are getting off the crazy Train and your H can too. But you ARE.

So PLEASE get that help.

One foot in front of the other. The MOST DIFFICULT was the FIRST STEP. Every step after that is easier.

YOU will end up in a better place. Your M may or may not survive. That is beyond your control. It is within your H's control. Once HE starts on the path, then your M was a real shot. But that is within his control.

((((JW))))

LG

Hey LG, thanks for your post. I don't have much time as I've got a meeting soon.

NO, my children are NOT living with 2 alcoholics! I'm far from "always knocking one back" - there's 6 wine coolers in the fridge that H bought for me 3 months ago when we were having friends over...I drank 2 that day & haven't touched the rest, I'm not interested. I'll drink, socially, if we're out, but never to relax or if I'm just sitting here. My problem with alcohol is that everyone around me seems to be hooked on it.

Horses are my one passion in life, he stays. It's my outlet & the kids enjoy him too. No go. Anyway I have to go so I'll pop in later.

JW:

Sorry, that was kind of harsh. In the post before, you stated that you were canceling drinking with friends to talk to your children. It was posted in such an off-hand manner, like going drinking with your friends was a common occurance.

However, my points about the horse and internet are related.

Harley talks about spending TIME with your spouse. Horses, and the internet can become things that take you away from your H.

Just like his drinking takes him away from your household. HIS is a serious addiction. BUt the others are addictions as well.

My wife LOVES horses. She finally started to ride after Dday. Hadn't ridden since high school. I could find time to play golf, but she could never find the time to ride. Or the money. Or, whatever...

It makes her a happier woman to ride once a week for an hour. But if you are spending 10-15 hours a week with the horses, then you might have been shortchanging your M as well. And then when you were home, you were on the internet.... Not much time for Mr. JW.

I have some sweeping generalizations in there. I hope I have over generalized. I wouldn't mind discussing them more specifically.

Your H MAY have agreed to letting you have the horse, and the internet time, etc. Its what happened later that caused the problem. He uses a bowl of pot, or 12 beers to unwind. You would ride or surf for same unwinding.

I have to run, also.

LG

Hey LG. Nope, it's not a regular occurrence at all...me going out drinking, that is. I'll be honest, I REALLY looked forward to it though! This is a friend who's moving to another state so it (was) a going-away party of sorts. I felt like I "deserved" to go & un-wind, let loose have fun. When I drink, I'll have 3 & then get silly, maybe have a 4th or a shot & then feel it, be silly, then stop - and drink water. Water, water, water, go home & sleep.

You're right, I have some obsessive traits. I've got 2 dogs & 2 cats at home, H HATES the one dog, who's pretty in-your-face. I had horses before I had kids & got out of it, H worried for years that he wouldn't see me or money if I got another...yes, he did agree to get him but yes, he has been robbed of time/attention as a result. No, that isn't fair. Yes, I (potentially, if H returns) need to address that. I used to show & so I had to invest a lot of time...so I pretty much took that back up again. H has his band & drinking afterwards so it was a "balance" but no, it hasn't been fair.

The icing on the yuck-cake is the fact that I'd hop online & visit a horse forum afterward...I have a lot of knowledge I can share so I like to cyber-help other horse people, emailing, and finding deals on stuff I need. But it's gotten out of hand - too much, I DO need to address that no matter what. I made that promise to my kids - that I'll wait till they're in bed to get online, etc.

And as for my house being a mess...somehow, and I don't quite understand it, I suddenly feel the urge to clean! This has happened before when H & I have separated. I don't understand the correlation but it needs to get done, so...

I went to a meeting again this morning, cried my way thru talking again, got more info & some titles of books I want to pick up, and know when/where there's one tomorrow I can go to, too. These people keep telling me how strong and how courageous I am for going. I actually disagree...maybe the fog will clear soon, maybe even the tears will dry up? I'm definitely going tomorrow.

Signing off, till later...

JW:

Terrific! Glad you went to the meeting!

And just like your Horse posting, I spend to much time around here....

LG

Well me & the kids have been keeping busy, which has got to be key, because in this downtime I'm feeling like it's all falling apart.

I didn't attend a meeting today as I didn't have anybody to watch them, and I figured every-other day was still good with my plans to go tomorrow. I wish I'd gone.

H texted me, "I miss the kids & I don't know if I can call them. And I want to know when I can come get my stuff"
Translation: The kids were supposed to have gone to Grandma's Friday, and he thought we weren't going to tell them about the "split". I did tell them, and they didn't go to Grandma's - they're going tonight. And...the only stuff that's still here is the TV/stereo I bought him for Christmas, so I imagine he'll want, and other big items. <<enter hopelessness>>

I didn't respond. I don't want to get sucked in. No matter what I replied with, it'd open an argument. He sent another:

"I know you're upset but I thought you were going to support my decision"

WHAT? He thought I was going to support leaving the family home, when it was made clear that he could stay, but had to kick drinking/smoking pot? Did I say that? I gave the impression I support him choosing his addictions over us? Holy crap!

I am beside myself. I still haven't responded and I figure I still shouldn't...I will not keep the kids from him but as of Friday they didn't want to see or talk to him, as of last night they weren't so sure (I offered for them to call him) and tonight they finally get to go to Grandma's & be away from this house for a bit. I will probably go to 6 meetings tomorrow. They're still not giving me any answers but as I'm dealing w/this & talking to friends/family, I'm realizing that the only people who AREN'T deranged are the strangers I'm meeting thru Al-Anon.

So...help?

You're doing well - silence is the best response for babble from a deranged lunatic - and someone who will put his family through this just so he can keep drinking is a lunatic!

You sure about that? Still nobody has been able to tell me for sure that he's an alcoholic...or that this IS the root of our marital problems.

I just got back from dropping off the kids. On a detour, I got lost. I freaked - I am the most geographically challenged person EVER, H is a whiz, this is what we do. Of course I didn't call him, I called a friend...who got me to where I needed to be just fine, but I'm sad & mad & hurt & angry & desperate because it wasn't H that I called. And then on the way home, it was like some Wally World...all these great songs that we played at our wedding, anniversary party kept coming on the radio. And every new, young couple in the WORLD happened to be on the streets tonight - in the snow storm - holding hands across the street, kissing on the bus stop...good God I need to never leave the house again!

I just miss him. Even with the really, really crappy & scary/annoying fits, we had some GREAT times & we were "that couple". I want it all back!

You don't have to accept that he is an alcoholic. Just realize that his drinking is causing problems in his family life and in his life too.

Stay strong - you can lead your family out of this. Prayers to you and your husband and kids.

Yes, you are doing well - you are in withdrawl from your addiction to the unacknowledged addict - you have 3 days clean so far, as much as I can count so far.

And just because he doesn't say he's an alcoholic, and no one else has told you for sure he's an alcoholic - but isn't he making a decision to separate from PEOPLE he loves for a substance he can't/won't choose to give up???

What defines an alcoholic if it isn't this?

KaylaAndy, you think so? That I'm in withdrawal? That I was addicted to my husband? Is that bad? I'm serious, not joking or being rude...you hear about addictive relationships & I'm shocked if you think I had one w/H! Not denying it, just amazed at this observation of yours, if you can call it that.

What defines an alcoholic? That's easy: my dad. He's a jerk, nobody likes him/probably doesn't like himself, he's rude & disrespectful to my mom, both of his adult kids are still struggling with the emotional scarring they received from him...he went to the bar every night after work when I was growing up, he was a VIOLENT fall-down, beligerent, disgusting drunk, unappreciative, never helped with homework or played with us, not that we wanted him to, never did anything for himself much less anybody else, constantly embarrassed us and himself, I could go on. Not that I think there's only one form but I've always been CERTAIN my dad is a drunk. H is more sociable, likeable, and has consistently been very, VERY affectionate & accomodating to me, both publicly and privately. SUCH a good marriage/relationship/family we had...except once in a while...