I've posted my story here recently and have not been posting since there are so many very similar stories to follow that i felt like i haven't needed any personal advice in a while. My situation is shockingly similar to toomuchtosoon's (minus the children) so I'e just been reading his thread as my own to keep my head up. Since D-day I've been working my plan A the best I can and trying not to LB. WW continues to see OM and lie about it. We have continued MC and been to 3 appointments, but it seems pointless right now. I just keep going since she is not objecting and thinks it can help. She continues to see OM and lie about it constanly, these are the thoughest times to keep my compsure but I've been getting better. The other day she admitted that she knows that she eventually has to let go of one of the two people she loves. she also said she wished she'd listened to me when I told her to end all contact with OM forever (on d-day). she still "can't do-it" though. Today she left me a very long letter telling me that she is moving out in a few weeks no-matter how bad of an idea i think it is (needs "time to think"). some other things in her letter are as follows " I feel like I'm in a fog or a night mare" YES...."I'm being selfish and disgusting by letting this situation stay like it is" (she talking about living in the luxury of our home while continuing her affair) "I'm at a loss for what to do or say to make this better for you, short of suddenly forgetting about OM and falling madly in love with you again" one more...."I really don't want to move out but I truly believe it is our only chance, plus it is the only fair thing for you"
You see her logic is that moving out will force her to decide what is best for her. even though it will only make her affair much easier to continue. I really don't have any other ways to expose the affar right now and I'm affraid that OM is just not going to give up anytime soon, especially since the PA part is probably going to get much better for him now that she's leaving me. So I have a few hours before she comes home. I'm sure she's expectimg a "talk". Should I just get out of here for a while to avoid her tonight and cool off. Should I write another letter to her to try get her to see that NC is the only thing that will ever clear her mind? she seems to know it, but she "can't do it" becuase shes in love with OM and doesn't want to loose him. Sorry for the long post, I'll try to keep this one going instead of starting new ones.......

aph120:


You could let her know that you believe that there's a real chance at this---if she'd be willing to talk to one of the Harleys. One way they work this end of the affair is to have her write a NC letter, and then the two of you split for a vacation together for a few weeks---away from phones.

I doubt that she'll be willing. But try it. Otherwise, I'd just say that you prefer to have her here with you, but if she really feels the need to move, you'll be happy to help her.

It's hard to educate a WS under these circumstances. Try to get them to talk to the Harley's---it doesn't seem like the MC has done much (and there might not be much they can do in this situation).

Aph,

It is so much easier to do a plan B when the WW is out of the house.

Maybe it must come down to this.

You are fulfilling some needs and OM is fulfilling other needs. When OM must fill ALL the needs....and can't do it...then the cracks in the A begin too get much bigger, faster.

The PA is most exciting when they sneak and lie and are naughty little high school kids. Access to the sex will be greater, but that doesn't have to mean that the PA will get better.

AND a plan B will shelter you from the continual throbbing pain you are experiencing now. It will help you.

Like Sting sings about "If you love somebody, set them free!"

DO NOT HELP FUND THE MOVE!! Do not let her have the extra TV or the fold out couch from the basement. Make it difficult and provide obstacles.

I am not sure about your entire sitch, but maybe it's time to go to a deep dark plan B.

Aph, you can't stop her from moving out if that is what she wants. You should not beg and plead and cry and blubber to keep her from going, correct? So she is forcing you into a plan B, which may be the next step anyway.

The logistics of moving out and living alone can be a very huge dose of reality.

""We have continued MC and been to 3 appointments, but it seems pointless right now. ""

The general feeling is MC is pointless unless there is no more contact.

As for right now, just tell her you don't want to her to leave, but you can't lock her in her room either. That should really be the extent of the talk. What more needs to be said?

Stay strong my friend. Take care of yourself.

IMHO

kirk

K, I'm planning on getting an appointment soon with the Harleys, and it's probably worth every penny, i just don't have any the moment and if she moves out I don't know how I'll afford the mortgage on my own( we just bought a house 6 months ago) I make most of our income, but not enough to pay the bills and have extra. Right now she can't grasp the idea that ending contact with OM will help US in any way, she only thinks it will make ME feel better. The feeling of love is gone for her and she doesn't know if it will ever come back, so she's going to move out to see if she misses me.....

aph:

So, you still haven't called the Harleys?

I just read all your posts. You said at one point that you can't afford them? Here's a homework assignment for you:

*What does an apartment rent for in your area? First and last month's rent, security deposits, finder's fees, that kind of stuff. (I'm HOPING that you've told your W that she may not use marital assets 2 pay for the apartment, but I don't think you've posted that anywhere).

*How much does divorce cost in your si2ation and your state?

Add those 2 2gether (even if you're not paying for your W 2 move, you're losing her share of your combined income that you use 2 maintain the marital home).

What do you come up with? I'm betting we're talking about many thousands of dollars at least, probably even a few tens of thousands. And that doesn't count what you may lose in equity if you can't afford 2 keep your house without her income. Nor does it take in2 account what it will cost you 2 buy her out of her interest in your home if you choose 2 stay in it.

Compared to a 2ple hundred dollars a session with the EXPERTS on recovery after infidelity, I think coaching with the Harleys is a phenomenal bargain!

Also: Love is NOT a feeling. That's chemistry, romance, or whatever. Feelings change. Your W will likely wonder what she was thinking, in retrospect after recovery. Love is a conscious choice.

-ol' 2long

2long, et al,

Little thread jack here, although it does pertain.

Is it not true that MC is pointless if there is still contact and the A is still going strong.

BUT...

The Harley's are more than MC and can assist with ending the A if both parties are participating in the call??

Also K said to help WW with the move out. This does not seem like the correct action.

Thoughts on either or both?

Thanks,

kirk

yes I am aware of the financialy side of this, but I still think that some advice from the veterans on here would be great at the moment until I get the funds together to make the call. Right now I woner if I should play this off as more fog babaly and try not to LB in anyway, or just get out of here to let her know that i don't want to deal with her tonight. I don't know that I'll be able to act as if nothing is wrong since I am extreemly angry and frustrated with the things she mentioned in her letter, ie that she is in love with another man, and "can't end thier realtionship even though she know how much it hurts me" talk about feeling like a doormat!

If she decides to move out for sure I plan to help reluctanty, otherwise she'll need to have OM in our house without me presnce. there is no-one else who can help since we have no freinds or family close to where we live. Also I am planning to write her best friend a long well thouhgt out e-mail asking for her help in saving ourmarriage. the only prblem is that she is also in a EA of her own so I think they are feeding off of each other. Her husband has no idea I only know from reading WWs e-mails. So i on;t know if she could help us or notm, but I have some pretty good leverage since i know about her EA and all the details. and I am freinds with her Husband. I want to tell him, but I might tell her she needs to so I don't have to, as long as she is willing to help me end my WWs A.

I don't know that I'll be able to act as if nothing is wrong since I am extreemly angry and frustrated with the things she mentioned in her letter, ie that she is in love with another man,

Dude, then boogy on out of there.

Just make sure you don't go to a bar and get loaded.

Go to the gym and work it off. Go run 5 miles.

Are you going to stay out all night? Come back when she is asleep?

It IS fogbabble, but if you feel like you would be an LB monster, then vacate the premises.

IMHO [/b]

krusht:

I agree that MC isn't necessarily pointless if she's still in the A. I just hope she's not claiming that she's not having an A, though.

When my W and I went 2 an MC 3 months after d-day while the A continued as an email EA (Rat Meat lives 2 states away and was a consultant on a project my W was in charge of), she was truthful about it still going on, but she wasn't interested in being told she had 2 end it. And the MC wasn't credentialed in dealing with infidelity. So we stopped after only 2 months of every 2nd or 3rd week sessions.

I had 2 ICs and a MB-trained coach, and she had 2 ICs. None of it all that helpful 2 the M, but counseling isn't as effective as coaching, and my W wasn't successfully encouraged 2 do coaching with me. I got a lot out of even the not-so-positive ICing I got from a "measured honesty" guy, and the other IC and my coach. She doesn't talk much about her IC, except 2 say that she only went 2 them 2 help her figure out why she's such a giver and lets other people take advantage of her. Groan.

I think the Harleys are particularly skilled at enticing the WS 2 participate in coaching with them. I think the sooner aph gets a session with them, the more pain he may be able 2 avoid.

Regardless of what he decides 2 do, however, he will need 2 work through this rather than try 2 ignore it or work around it. This growth process is very painful, but there's no reason it can't be taken as an oppor2nity for personal spiri2al growth.

-ol' 2long

otherwise she'll need to have OM in our house without me presnce.

NO NO NO...you will not let her and him go through your house unless you are there.

She can pack a couple bags. She can load up her car. The OM does not enter your house.

And you there with a large friend with a baseball bat would be better. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

2long,

I am definately taking this a learning experience. in fact we had HNRN on our bookshelf for years and niehter of us opened it until she said she was unhappy. that's when the red flags went up and I went on a mission to save this marriage because we were once very happy an deeply in love, and I still love her very much. Then i read SAA and many other books. I found this website and it is a wealth of info I only wish I knew this stuff two years ago! I told her the other day that it sucks that I have learned more about what it takes to have a good marriage in the past 2 months then the last 28 years, she agreed.

actually I'mthinking about inviting her whole family out for the weekend she moves without telling her, its a couple hour drive, but they will come if I ask and I know they are on my side, especially her grandparents who I am very good with. I worry that that would be LBing though. OM will not come to our home that is for sure.

I hope you're not paying for the apartment.

aph120:

I wouldn't 'worry' about what she told you in the letter. It's nothing you didn't know, right? She's an addict, and she still enjoys her affair high.

With regard to where you should be right now---I'd say a little more plan A. If she chooses to move out---you can't stop her, unless you're willing to try a new method---the Radical Glue Method. I'm not sure if that's a lovebuster or not. So seriously, if you don't want her to leave, tell her that you prefer her to stay. If she's leaving anyway---offer to help her move (or pack)---in other words, do the opposite of what she'd expect (whine, yell, plead, etc). You should have a reasonable discussion on finances as well---because you shouldn't be footing the bill for the apartment.

If she goes---you'll probably find Plan A easier to do when she's gone. Because you won't have to deal with the constant affair stuff. When you're ready---then transition to Plan B.

I'm definately not paying for anything for her, she knows she'll need another job also, which I hpoe brings her closer to the reality of lifel on her own. I doubt OM will be able to meet all of her needs being that his is a compulsive spender and has no money and lives in his aunts basement. He's spent over $1000 on her in two months on stupid stuff like handbags and a secret blackberry for them to communicate behind my back. WW is not into this kind of stuff, and I know it wont last, also I doubt he has any sense of domestic support as WW is not your conventional W I do more then most men around the house with reguards to cooking, cleaning, laundry, yardwork, she does her share too, but I know she wont put up with some bumb who can't even afford his own place. I'm just worried you know, that he'll keep playing her long enough for me to move on.

I guess I'll keep plan A gong until she moves out and then figure out when to go to plan B, I think that may have a huge impact on her becuase she has told me many times how much it hurts her to put me through this and see me in pain. I think a good plan A and a better plan B might really wake her up.

aph,
Im so incredibly sorry for your pain! Im not a vet here but I am a FWW and just wanted to share the things taht didnt work for my H and I and why I feel they didnt.

I wouldnt have her family come "visit", definely a LB imo.

I would say that you definitly should NOT aid her financially in anyway, my H paid my security deposit, first monthe rent, bought me a microwave, food, etc. I wouldnt have been able to go anywhere without his help, or at least it would have taken soooo much longer.

I would also say that you should plan B very soon after she moves out, if that does end up happening. My H continued to plan A and I simply had my cake and was eating it too. Be open to her if she comes to you but only to a certain extent, if you know what I mean,...you need to protect yourself in order to stay strong. I cant imagine plan bing is easier, but defintely think it will get the results you want the quickest.

While she is there, continue to plan A like crazy, it can have a huge impact depending how thick the fog is. For me it pushed me further away because his plan aing made me feel bad, and I also knew that my H was willing to help financially with my apartment so I could leave and not deal with feeling bad, I continued to be a complete [censored] to him for which I dont know if Ill ever be able to completely forgive myself for. We are still together and recovering ever so slowly, but were together and that is what matter most to me right now.

I hope you dont mind my posting to you, just thought a different perspective might help. Stay strong!

warmly,
TG

trigirls,

this is very helpful, I would love to hear from more FWWs, I wish you could talk to my WW also! but she's not gong to listen at the moment, the fog is too thick. one wuestion I have, is that when your H was plan Aing and it made you feel bad and pushed you away, was this bad or good? I know it's pushing her farther away because she also feel very bad that She is dong this to me and I'm getting no respect from her. she has said this and means it, it's part of the reason she wants to leave, becuase she feel so extreemly guilty for what she is doing to me, I just get so scared that her A will continue to make it harder for her to come back to me.....

I understand this concern at this point in your process. But it's not something you can control anyway, so work on not worrying about that.

In the end, it should be her concern that you might move on if she doesn't pull her head out.

Because, as time goes on and you follow the methods and get 2 a better place emotionally, you won't be worried about your wanting 2 move on. You'll be at peace.

-ol' 2long

Make sure to change your locks and cut her completely off after she moves out. Then go completely to plan B a few weeks later.