Hi all,
For the past 2 days my WH has come over to visit our son and started an argument. I try to RETREAT, but he follows me, or brings up something from the past unrelated.

The first one was about his brother sending a van payment check to the OW/his ex's house instead of to ours.
I asked him "Oh he's sending the checks there now?" and he jumped down my throat, accusing me of blaming him for his brother's actions, telling me that I slung a 'dig' at him and started raising his voice. Very loudly. Cussing ensued.

I told him(calmly) that it was a question, not a statement and that I know he can't help what his brother does. He asked "why did you say that?" and I said "Well, b/c I was still looking out for it" (pause) "and it kind of hurt my feelings since I sent him an email saying it was ok to still send the checks here, that I would keep them in a safe place until I saw you." My BIL never replied, but I was doing it as a courtesy of reassurance so no biggie. I guess that went over like a lead brick anyway.

He said "I'm not leaving until you admit it was a dig". I said, "I'm not admitting to anything that I didn't do. As long as you raise your voice and cuss at me, I won't be talking to you." I started arguing and defending myself before I caught myself LB'ing, then I RETREATED to another room. Well since he doesn't live at home anymore I said maybe it was time for him to go. Then he says "No, I'm not leaving" and demanded to eat some dinner before he left with our son for the night. Always pushy, always forceful.

I felt so bad. I didn't want to be unkind. I have been doing Plan A all over the place. I realize now that I did it for too long, b/c I started suffering. The rejection is awful and I can't sleep.

Anyway, my girlfriend was coming over in a half an hour and I just wanted a night to myself. This is only the second time that I have had a break from our 1 yr old son since he moved out in Oct 07.

I caved and let him eat just so he would hurry and go home. Argh!! But as soon as he finished, here he comes in the bedroom stating loudly his point, still accusing me of a dig and being relentless.

Why can't he see what he does? Even despite the LB's that he does, my heart still wishes so much that we could work it out.
HOWEVER...
Things are changing in me. I am getting stronger, looking at it from a different viewpoint.

Gosh do I really want this angry, hurtful man in my life?
Do I want our son to witness his disresepct and learn from that?
Can I live like this for the rest of my life?

The answers to these questions are no. He would have to change. He is passive aggressive AND aggressive-aggressive. He is LB'ing, in a FOG, and an ALIEN.

He continues to maintain a friendship with his ex b/c of their child together, but it is inappropriate - going in her house, staying for dinner, using her phone. He is so in my face about it. I don't think he will stop until SHE meets someone else. He told me he wants a relationship with her b/c of their son, but the nature of it is wrong. He and I are married, not him and her.
I guess I am just starting to give up.

I had an earlier post about SEX and the WS. Well, I had blood work done today to make sure I have a clean bill of health from all std's. I have swollen glands and a sore throat that won't go away. My self diagnosis is mono.
I know he was with me Christmas Eve and with her on New Years. It makes me sad, sick, disgusted and depressed. My doctor presribed Lexapro, so I will start that next week. I have to get out of this pit.

The pit of doom. I have always had such hope. I guess I am in one of the stages of grief, the beloved Acceptance, which always brings a sense of peace.

I can't control him.
I can control me.
I can't make him love me.
But I can love me!

I can see the light at the end of the tunnel.
-----------------------------
BS(me)37
WH(37)
Together since '05
DS 1
DD from prev M 16
OW(the ex) 34
Found out 6/06, one month after our wedding.
Again 11/06, again 4/07, again NOW.

spiritchaser,

I just wanted you to know that I read your post. It sounded alot like a journal entry....and letter to yourself almost. I like the positive message I'm hearing you embrace. I'm very worried however, about your husband's aggressiveness. Are you in any physical danger from him?

Freeto...

It would seem to me that you are very very near the time to go to plan B....

the picking of small ridiculous fights...is the WS way of saying...any attention...good or bad is better than no attention...

and since they can't get good attention because their actions are so vile....
they go for the bad attention...


following you around
picking a fight...
wah wah wah in your face...over nothing....

forcing you in to a verbal corner so that they have something to use against you....

it was a no win for you...
his demands were admit you 'digging' at me" ...and then I can feel good about myself by using the proof that you are picking fights with me..

classic...

so lets see your plan B letter eh?

ARK^^

Confusion.
Yesterday I was borderline Plan B.

Ark I just read your no love for Plan A post. Since I woke up this morning already feeling like buying him a Leo Tolstoy book he's been wanting, it got me thinking. Why do I vacillate so? And when do I know it is the "right" time to go dark?

My Plan B letter was horrible. lol, Honey I have written it about 9 or 10 times. Posted one for review and it got shot down, b/c admittingly it was a little scathing. I keep the latest in an envelope on the dresser and when he comes by I am tempted to put it in his hands, but I'm just not there yet.

He had told me that he was confused about how he felt. Better than the ILYB not enough to stay married cow dung I was previously fed.

But yes he picks fights.

And he doesn't believe me. Do all WS's think BS's lie as well?

freeto...

can you leave when he visits..
can you meet him at the door on the way in...you heading out...

looking smashing
smelling marvelously...
humming a tune.....
and say...see ya...I'll be back in a bit....

can you...

would you....

create an illusion

an illusion of reality..
tiny tiny bits and pieces...

read your signature line..it's 06,07 and now 08..
what's in store for 09..

do you have a real concrete plan for plan B\

ark....

Well I have asked my Mom to be the intermediary, but she has other grtandkids besides my son that she helps with, my Dad is not doing the best healthwise - they are early 80's. She will try but can't always accomodate. Frankly, my Dad does not want my WS at their house so it could get tricky with the drop off/pick up of our son.

I have done that...
looking gorgeous
smelling delicious
aloof to him and happy...
cya - out the door.

It worked to get his attention, so I thought of continuing...but then he goes to the OW's house, his ex...you see they have a 6 yr old together...and he has dinner, or she drives him to get his car fixed, or he spends the night there occasionally like on New Years Eve. It kills me and I become stoic and hate myself for Plan A when he is hurting me.

I know Plan A can work with some, and reading your respect for it post got me thinking that I should continue. Maybe???
My dr just prescribed me Lexapro. One hour I'm fine, the next I cry.

I will attempt a Plan B letter once again and post it for you to read.

It is with great sadness that I write this letter to you. It grieves me deeply to see what has happened to us and to our marriage. I miss everything that was wonderful about us. I miss the happy times and the fun that we had together. Most importantly, I miss you and I long to share with you all the hopes and dreams we had for our future. The decision I now make is out of a necessity to spare what I can of my love for you.

I have apologized to you for any part that I had in creating an environment that helped make an affair with that woman possible. I am so sorry for the ways I hurt you or any time I tried to control, criticize, or change you.

I have worked hard to understand and improve my own issues. I have much faith that we could build a new and better life for both of us and for Nicholas, one where all of us would be happy. But we cannot do that until you agree to have no contact with her again. If you seek someone else out, I can’t possibly be the one to make you happy, because there will always be a second person giving you something that I can’t. You must know and realize all the pain and suffering I have endured due to your relationship with her. For this reason I can’t see or speak to you until you’re willing to give us a chance to build our marriage into everything we imagined it would be on our wedding day. If you need to communicate with me in regards to Nicholas or any other important matter, please call my Mom or leave a voicemail at work. We will stick to the visitation schedule of every Wednesday and every other weekend starting on Friday after your BIP class until Sunday morning.

I ask you to please respect my decision to separate from you. I still love you but I can’t see you under these circumstances. I am not doing this out of anger or to punish you in any way. It’s simply too painful for me to do anything else. My heart can’t take the pain anymore. Every time I’m with you I just want to hold you and cherish you, kiss you and caress you, even just hold your hand. It is evident your relationship with her matters more to you than ours, because you discount the hurt it brings me when you act inappropriately as my husband. I need to protect myself now and protect the feelings that I still have for you.

Please remember this is not what I want. I dream of the opportunity to build a new and better life for our family, a life where we are totally focused on one another and would never to anything to hurt each another. Then there would never again be a reason for us to separate. I want to be your lover and your best friend and I want you to be the same for me.

But I won’t tolerate your angry reactions and want so much for you to hold on to the love for me instead. Making you leave wasn’t a punishment to you, it was self-preservation. Hold on to the belief that I am not out to get you. I am your wife, and there is only one other that is allowed between us and that is God. We chose each other. I am the other half of what makes you whole, and I love you as part of who I am.

Marriage, especially with children, has many reasons to restore the respect, passion and care. I wish you could see it as I do. Love me. Respect me. Accept me. Take care of me. Desire me. Consider me. Be truthful to me. I would live my life to do those things for you. Even if we didn’t know what to do or how to do it, we would be together, figuring it out, working on it, making it better, failing and trying again, moving on as a couple, just you and I.

I still believe that we can build a new marriage that is stronger and more beautiful than either one of us has experienced.

With all my love,

So, WH just came by my work with our son to pick up a check for the doctor. He gave me a HUGE hug goodbye and looked so cute.
He asked me who all those people were in the lunchroom and if I was dating any one of the guys. This is a new job I started right after I kicked him out so he doesn't know anyone yet.

WS's have Suspicious minds! Is jealousy in this form a good sign?

He'll be coming by the house tonight to pick Nicholas up for the weekend.

He was hungry so I gave him my leftover lunch. <whine> How am I going to do Plan B. Help!

freeto..

I have to ask..... is complete no contact with her a realistic goal in this case due to the child they have while the child is still a minor...

ARK

Good moring Ark,
Early riser I see!
Thanks, yes I need to add something about their son. I can tell you right now he wouldn't go for an intermediator. He actually told me he WANTS a friendship with her b/c of their son. A civil relationship I can understand, but a friendship? Um, no thank you.

Last night,I was in full GODDESS form when he came to pick up our son. He was late and when I asked why he said b/c the kids were eating. 5 mins later when we were alone I asked, so I guess you ate dinner over there and he said she offered so I did. He just does this stuff without even a care in the world. He says he isn't wearing his ring and doesn't live here anymore so why should he not? After all he has a son with her...blah, blah, blah.

If you do something that hurts someone else, and you know it and KEEP doing it, that is NOT in accord with love.

Whatever. I am really getting hard-hearted towards him.

Anyway, I saw the MB photos and thought I may send mine today. That is a neat idea.

I loved your "shut yer pie hole post" btw.
Cya, Free

WHY would he stop doing what he is doing? It has no consequence for him...he is cake-eating. Why should he choose between you when he can have both? And that is what he is doing. I feel very strongly here that you should give him the letter and cut him out completely. Do not keep putting yourself through this out of fear of what he will do (will he pull farther away, etc). This is no way to live your life and it is obvious that he has no regard for your feelings. Take the step. BUT...you must have a better intermediary than your aging mom. She can fill in sometimes, but I would get at least one other person. Besides, you need someone to intercept the phone messages, email, etc that he will try to send you. There are many here who have been through Plan B, and completely dark, who have children together. Seek them out and get a GOOD plan.

Please do not let him continue to jerk you around like this. He is not going to "come to his senses" because he has no reason to do so.

Please be well...we're pulling for you!

freeto..

IF you two were to get divorced...

how do you see your relationship with him

ark

OMG, I haven't even thought that far ahead. <sigh>

My first instinct is to say that he would want me back.

Honestly I would probably lose respect for him due to the fact that he didn't make an effort like I have.

It is easy to run away.

Hard to stay and fight.

I am in awe of how many people want to try to make their marriages work. And become better. While becomming a more complete individual in the process.

We would get along better I am sure. Because he wouldn't have the demands of marriage,the responsiblity of someone else's feelings to consider.

I mean, look at what he is doing to me now......??

Res, Thank you for that THWACK.

Wasn't trying to smack ya-I just hate to see people get hurt over and over with no end in sight. Wanted you to think about the fact that he has nothing motivating him to change. And to point out that you have more control over this sitch than you think...if you just take it back (control)!

Take care of yourself!!

Update: I have been so tired of putting all my energy into what my WH is doing. Sad to say, I have driven by the OW's house countless times. Luckily I have only done it the one time this year when I saw his van at her house on New Years Day.

In retrospoect, I have put up with WAYYYY more than I thought I would. In your face behavior....I plan A'd all over the place. He noticed, but you guys were right, what motivation does he have if he is cake eating and I let him.

So Guess WHAT??

I am reclaiming my DIGNITY.
Reclaiming my status as his WIFE with self respect.

Plan B letter was hand-delivered this morning. Whew.

My WH siad "what's this?" and I said just read it later when you have time...oh and Wed nights when you pick up Nicholas, let's meet at the church.

That way, it is less likely that I will let him step inside to eat dinner, and I can be elusive about what is going on at our house. Maybe he needs to wonder what I'M up to for a change...

WHOOO-HOOO! OMG, I am soooo happy for you and proud of your strength!! I just high-fived my H.

I know you are scared..I cannot even IMAGINE, but really, how much worse can it be. You said it...at least now you will have your dignity back. I know you can do this, you are stronger than you think.

Get on the GODDESS thread and tell us how you will be celebrating your STRENGTH!!!!

I don't feel strong. All I feel is sadness and numbness and uncertainty. One day I'm ok, the next I'm a basket case. I have been dealing with his cheating since I was pregnant...and 3 false recoveries....because he kept cheating and then coming back to me with promises and good behavior for a while, until LB's got the best of us.

My church counselor said she thinks that he sees the goodness in me and KNOWS that I will bring him to a higher level, and that is why he is fighting within himself and keeps cmoing back...because he KNOWS he is suppose to be with me. But why oh why does he go to her?!?!

I found out my WH's lease on his apt is for ONE WHOLE YEAR. Does this mean he is really moving on? It makes me so sad.

I HATE thinking about them being together. I hate how he has strung me along...doing things with me one night, then planning things with her the very next. He feels it is ok because him and the OW are ex's and they have a son together. Is he more comfortable with her than with me?

He makes me feel he is justified with his "I don't live here anymore" words and "we aren't together anymore". He said this past wknd that he has known a while that he wasn't going to be with me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
Just cruelty.
I try to be brave and tell him I don't care, that I'm glad, that I don't ever want his lips to touch mine again.

I think that I didn't know him long enough anyway before we got married. Shotgun wedding. But I truly was in love. I had been divorced for TEN years before I met and married my WH.
Maybe God is doing me a favor.

I just feel so rejected by him. And if I am so wonderful,why doesn't he love me anymore?! I don't understand.

It's not about you, Free. It's about him.

He is still in the fog and still selfish.

You just be YOU, and don't worry about it.

If you start to think about them together, change the channel! If your mind wanders back, change it again! Keep changing the channel in your mind until it's like second nature. You can do it!

You ARE wonderful, and don't you ever forget it!!

Take care,

Charlotte

Char,
Thank you.
I have just acted so desperate in the past...just to be with him..just to get scraps. He is such a liar, ugh.

What is plan "silent planet"?

Hi Free,

Yeah, I did the same. I was SO afraid before. Afraid that I couldn't survive without him. Then I started letting myself see things in a different light There's whole, wide, big, beautiful world out there just waiting to be explored. All of those things I dream about that I thought I wouldn't get to do or get to do with him. I can do them now. I started thinking about that...I didn't want to at first. It scared me a little at first. But the more I thought about it...well, it just started sounding better and better!

Now if he DOES wake up and come back and EARN me back, he's going to have to get used to it! No more hermit-crabs!!

The Silent Planet in my sig line refers to a song, really it's like the definition of it...a silent, dead world, but the song actually is a hopeful one, because out of the silent planet we were created and many other wonderful things.

I'm glad you asked because I hadn't even thought of the positive aspect about that. He wasn't communitcating so he was silent planet. I guess in my subconscious mind I remembered the lyrics and that they were hopeful and upbeat about life being created on the silent planet. Cool! Thank you, Free!

LOL! I need a big kick in the rear for not realizing that!!!