my wife and i have been separated for about 10 months. all do the affair she was having with a man from work. i did the crying and begging and pleading with her. told her that he was only out to use her. well after all this time guess what? she found out the hard way. she has called me for someone to talk to because she said that i always had something to say to make her feel better. and that i always comforted her.

our court date is scheduled for jan. 24th. she says that she needs time to heal before she can decide what to do about us. i have told her that i have waited for 10 months for her to realize all this, but only now at the end. i told her that i'm willing to work things out and earn back her trust. but i will not do it after the 24th of this month. i will start over but not after we are divorced.

do i make sense? is it right for me to say that? what should i do? and i thought i was loosing it before! need help! please!

mikey,

For a second, let's talk about what you want to do....rather than "should" do.

In a perfect world....what would that be?

What I'm hearing is that you really love your wife and would like to give this a try, but you also want to make sure that you aren't hurt again. I think you have a right to communicate boundaries that protect you, and I think that's what you've done. You didn't say "do this or else" (ultimatum)....you said "I'm willing to work on this until the divorce" (boundary). You've given her a time frame that gives you some security that you won't be strung along....but you've expressed your willingness too. I think you did well. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Mikey,

What's it going to hurt to postpone the court date?

You know about Plan A and love busters, correct?

Do you want to reconcile and rebuild your M.

Is the A over and is there NC in place or is she still with the low life and calling you because things are not as rosy as they were.

Will she quit her job so she never sees him again?

""i told her that i'm willing to work things out and earn back her trust. ""

Earn back HER trust? Am I missing something here?

Anyway, if it sounds like she is willing to come back and YOU want her back, then the time limit thing kind of a love buster.

IMHO

kirk

thank you for the reply. i know what i want and that is to save this marriage. and yes i have laid down boundries. and she agrees, if this is what she chooses. she says she needs time to "get over" the hurt that the om caused her. she has told me not to get my hopes up cause she just might not choose me either. do i wait and see and go from there? how can i woo her into choosing me. she said the whole reason for this was couriosty and nothing that i did. so why wouldn't she choose me? she says that she has to figure out her life and what's best for her. not us and our children. i don't get it????

mikey,

Until your wife goes through withdrawal from the affair....she will be self-involved and not putting the interests of the marriage and children as a priority. Me-first is the typical wayward posture. Be very careful not to be pushy, weepy or beg her to come back. You don't "get" it because it isn't logical. She's still a biochemical mess. You still have a couple of weeks to see what's going to happen. Do your best Plan A and re-evaluate right before the court date. Maybe it won't be so confusing by then....in the meantime....don't jump to conclusions and don't push too hard. I'm sorry you're hurting. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Hi, Mikey.

It is very common for the wayward spouse to have second thoughts near the time of the divorce proceedings.

I suggest that you divorce, and let her earn her way back to you if that is what she wishes. Asking for you to wait on her to decide is disrespectful of you. I would tell her that, in a gentle, calm manner.

There is no reason that you can't remarry once the divorce is over. She needs to make up her mind now, however.

If there is no financial burden for you to wait, and you are willing to wait under the condition of no-contact, and counseling with the Harleys, then you might consider her proposal. As is, I personally wouldn't.

If on the other hand, you have NOT done a stellar Plan A, then consider waiting while you get your side of the marriage cleaned up.

All the best,
Gimble

thank you gimble. maybe i should have re-worded the way i put it. she hasn't asked me to wait. i'm asking if i should wait.

mikey,

You have a long time to divorce your wife, but I'm not sure how much time you have to save your marriage. I don't think you should wait indefinitely. You have a court date....keep it. Between now and then....do the best Plan A you've ever done. Two days before your court date....re-evaluate where you are. If you're ready for a divorce....you'll know it. If you aren't....you'll know that too. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> And like gimble says....even divorce isn't necessarily "the end"....you can still remarry your wife if something changes. The important part....is to face the future with confidence and faith. You are strong enough to make a decision and follow through. Don't be afraid.

thank you all very much. just still a little scared. not like you do this everyday. i thought i was over her or getting to that point. but when she called and said that she needed me because i comforted her, i guess i got a little nervous and got my hopes up.

Mikey -

Affairs almost always end. That is just the way things go. And when they end, the marriage has a chance. Your chances of being happily married to your wife are much greater than the chances of either one of you being happier with someone else.

If I were in your shoes, I would postpone the divorce, and spend time with each other. You can ALWAYS get a divorce, but you want to give your family every possible chance to remain intact.

It could be that your wife is just getting cold feet because the divorce is looming. But err on the side of taking your time. You want to be able to look back in 5 years and know that you did everything possible to save the marriage.

My ex wanted to come back after we divorced, but I was DONE. However I waited 4 years while the affair continued. I don't regret anything.

i know that the affair is done. now i just want to know why she says that she has to do what's best for her? to me she is being selfish. why doesn't she want to fix our marriage? save our family? why is she still thinking of herself?

The affair is DONE, but the effects aren't. What you need is to buy some time. She should come out of her fog soon. It would be nice if the infidel woke up and changed their ways, said they were sorry and would do anything to save the marriage, but it rarely happens.

I would try to postpone the divorce.

How was the marriage before the affair?

the marriage was great! we always had great communication! we always did everything together and i mean everything! just an all around great marriage. yeah we had our days but who doesn't? i just don't know where it all went wrong for her! she said this whole affair started out of couriosity!
people were hitting on her and she started to wonder what would this be like?

Then it can be great again. Are you able to slow the divorce, or withdraw the petition without causing yourself harm?

Ther are some questions you need to ask yourself.

Is it always all about her? Is she the type that's all me me me me me?

If the answer is yes, would you still want to take her back without some serious changes in her? Would you take her back without her being remorseful for what she has done to you...so remorseful to a point where she feels physically sick?

Correct me if I'm wrong...she cheated, she betrayed you in the worst way possible, she got dumped, and now she want you to comfort her. Will you be able to forgive without her doing anything to make up for what she has done to you? What are the list of things you need from her for you to forgive and take her back?

I am not giving you advice, just asking you questions.

BA

Mikey - Here is what the Harley's say. BA - you might want to read some of the MB stuff too.

But because most affairs do not end with a choice to permanently separate from a lover, the recovery stage does not usually begin with much zeal. Instead, it begins with bitterness. If the affair dies a natural death (the spouse and lover simply drift away, or the lover ends it), the unfaithful spouse wakes up to find himself or herself still married, but married to a spouse who is very upset about everything that happened. How does one go about getting that kind of marriage restored?

It's very common for the spouse having the affair to feel unremorseful. And it's common for the victimized spouse to feel that it wasn't his or her fault, either. So when an affair has ended, and a couple is ready to rebuild their relationship, neither wants to take responsibility. They both look at each other as having been very selfish, and they look at themselves as having gone the extra mile, with nothing to show for it. Why apologize for something that was the other person's fault?

There is a sense in which an apology is not really necessary. The only thing that's necessary is for the couple to take appropriate steps to rebuild their relationship. But an apology can certainly make taking those steps much easier.

S.C.'s wife is not sorry she had an affair. In fact she feels that it did her some good. She "finally did something for herself." That sure sounds like her Taker, doesn't it (if you don't know what a "Taker" is, be sure to read "The Giver and the Taker" in my Basic Concepts). Her Taker is only concerned about her happiness, and not the least bit concerned about S.C.'s happiness. It was her Taker that was doing the talking for her, telling S.C. that he had it coming, after what he had put her through with all of his drinking.

Taker's don't ever apologize. But they demand it of others. It was S.C.'s Taker that wanted an apology from his wife. It remembered that S.C.'s Giver had once told his wife he was sorry for his neglect of her while he was drinking, and now it was time for his wife to apologize for her offense. But at this point in their relationship, neither of their Givers are anywhere to be found, so there is little hope for repentance.

But now that the affair is over, does it do S.C. any good to try to pry an apology out of his wife? At this point, her feelings for S.C. are not the best, and any effort on his part to try to make her feel guilty will do nothing but withdraw more love units from an already bankrupt Love Bank. His best approach is to ignore the past, and focus on what he can do to start depositing love units. The more love units he deposits, the more her Taker will drop back and allow her Giver some room to maneuver. In fact, if her Giver shows up, she may surprise S.C. with an apology for the affair without him even asking for one.

S.C.'s best course of action is to create the best marriage possible by learning how to meet his wife's emotional needs, overcome Love Busters and create a unified lifestyle where neither of them would have second secret lives that can grow into affairs.

But in spite of what I've just said, I encourage each spouse, if possible, to override their Takers' instincts and apologize to the other anyway. The unfaithful spouse should apologize for having betrayed a valuable trust, for having hurt in the worst way possible the very one he or she promised to love and cherish. The victimized spouse should also apologize for having failed to meet important emotional needs that the unfaithful spouse had been promised at the time of marriage.

Why do I encourage an apology when the Takers are adamantly opposed to offering them? Because an apology is really in order (they did, in fact, hurt each other), and it also helps settle down the Takers, as long as they both apologize. S.C.'s wife knows that she did the wrong thing when she had an affair. It's her defensive Taker that will not let her apologize. But if she could let her defenses down for one moment and honesty express her Giver's regret for what she had done, it would give S.C. some encouragement.

But once apologies are made, a couple should move on to the business of rebuilding their relationship, and not dwell on the mistakes of their past. As much as you may want to talk about the affair or about any other mistake made, remember that every conversation on those subjects withdraw love units. And a Love Bank must first be overflowing with love units before you are in a position to waste any.

In C.W.'s case, he is close to having traversed the first two stages of marital recovery after an affair. He has completed the first stage by being completely separated from his lover, and he is near the end of the second stage where he is coming to the end of withdrawal from his dependence on her. Granted, he is still depressed, but part of his depression comes from living alone, and having a feeling of hopelessness trying to get his wife's cooperation to restore their marriage.

I think that both couples are ready for the third stage of marital recovery after an affair: Rebuilding their relationships. They all seem to be willing to negotiate, and are willing to let their spouses meet their emotional needs. That means they are no longer in the state of emotional withdrawal and are firmly fixed in the state of emotional conflict (if you do not understand the terms "withdrawal" and "conflict" see "Negotiating in the Three States of Marriage"). So any attempt to make their spouses happy is likely to have its desired effect -- love units will be deposited.

These two marriages are now in a position to be restored if the spouses take the correct steps. In some ways, both couples now have the same opportunity to solve their marital problems as they did before the affairs took place. And if they had done it then, they would have avoided all of the pain that the affairs inflicted on them. They are now where most bad marriages are, burdened by Love Busters and the failure to meet important emotional needs. So if they can toss off those burdens, they will not only create the marriage they need, but also eliminate the risk of another affair.

The steps these couples should take to restore their marriages are described in my book, Fall in Love, Stay in Love. It explains how couples can identify and overcome the Love Busters, anger, disrespect and demands. It also shows couples how to meet each other's emotional needs. But most importantly, it teaches couples how to create compatibility -- how to create an integrated lifestyle where dishonesty and secret second lives are eliminated.

The solution to most marital problems requires spouses to override their Taker's instincts. Doing what you feel like doing works great when you are in love, because the Giver calls the shots. But when you are not in love, and your Taker is in charge, your instincts will make matters much worse. The Taker wants you to get angry, be disrespectful and make demands. All of those Love Busters withdraw love units and also create defenses that make depositing new ones almost impossible.

Both C.W. and S.C. find their spouse's Love Busters coming between them and the restoration of love. But I'm sure that both of them are dishing them out as well.

So the first step in the restoration of marriage after an affair is to lay down the weapons. Each spouse must make a concerted effort to avoid anger, disrespect or demands at all costs. Every time they are together, they must do whatever it takes to make the relationship safe for each other.

Once they can guarantee each other safety, by protecting each other from Love Busters, they are ready to learn to meet each other's emotional needs. But they will have to learn to negotiate all of these issues with the Policy of Joint Agreement in mind. They must begin by guaranteeing each other that the cost of a great marriage will not require personal sacrifice. It will only require a willingness not to do anything that would hurt each other. They must understand that everything they will be doing in the future must take each other's feelings into account, and safety will be the guiding rule from now on.

With personal safety as the condition for negotiation, and enthusiastic mutual agreement as the goal, a couple is ready to rebuild. But that environment of safety may take a while to create. It may be the very first skill that they will need to learn before they can negotiate satisfactory.

Getting beyond this first step -- setting a safe stage for negotiating -- may take some careful thought and planning, but one thing is for sure, negotiations that are not safe or pleasant will not give you a solution to your problem.

Dr. Harley's technique and theory will probably work on most couples and marriages. But...(I am going to get slammed for saying this) what it fails to realize or point out or did not mention is that each of us is an unique individual who cannot be predicted precisely by one theory. In other words, there are some of us who are takers and will never be a giver. If that's the case (I am not saying it is here), then the MB's theory won't or cannot be applied completely.

BA

Well, we are all individuals. But the plan here CAN teach you how to deal with a taker. When a person changes the way they behave, the other person has to change the way they react. I see it all the time on the EN board.

BA:

You are continuing to evidence your lack of knowledge and understanding of MBer's.

That's probably the case most of the time and maybe even virtually all the time. But, there is a (very) small percentage of us who will continue the way we react despite changes in how others act. With these exception cases and individuals, the normal rule that works so well with most and maybe virtually all, will probably not work at all with these exceptions.

BA