It sounds as though your MIL (and SIL) were concerned only for your H and his feelings rather than his family (you and his children). Sad, but from what I've seen in my own life and on MB, not uncommon. There are plenty of enabling parents who will overlook some pretty serious misdeeds of their children in order to maintain a "good" relationship with them. But how good is a relationship if it's built on looking the other way?

In my family's case, my parents are happy to overlook poor behavior from my sister in order to keep in contact with her and her children. It is a pattern begun in childhood.


Can she do this? Even if your H is the father? Have your MIL and SIL agreed to this proposition? I am guessing that the OW is mad at your H for cutting her out of his life? You'll have to forgive me, FF, but I don't know your whole story. I didn't even realize you had other children besides your son.

Pepper said:


Understandable. As I mentioned earlier, FF, forgive me if I don't know your whole story. If your MIL went NC w/OW, if she saw only OC, would you be more comfortable with having your children around her? I certainly think that a child's relationship with grandparents is important, but not at the expense of their mother - you, in this case.

PK

It's OK PK

FF and the jenus (me) have come up with a jenus plan

no worries

the plan must be kept away from OW and MIL - so will not be shared here

you will just have to take my word on this

JENUS is NOT an overstatement or hyperbole !!!!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I have 3 children, 2 of the marriage. When I confronted MIL during the A about her having lunch with her son and his AP, she said "I don't care if I get a new DIL as long as my son is happy". Well her son now cringes over that. He son chose to come back to the M and go NC with xOW and OC. He wanted to be a man with honor and integrity which he was sorely lacking for a few years. Instead of looking ahead and waiting to see what her son would do, she chose to jump on the OW band wagon and be "best friends" (OW wording here) with OW. When I learned the truth about this and her having OW and OC to her home with my niece and nephew being introduced to my H's wh*re, I made the decision to cut her out of my life. She was bad mouthing me anyway, why would I want her there?

However, the loss bled over to my children. My children lost their grandma, the aunt and uncle and their three cousins. My niece is the same age as my DD. I am allowing them to email with me monitoring the situation. I allow phone contact with grandma with again, me monitoring. I have offered to my H to take them to MIL town with the understanding the children would never leave my sight and we would not enter their home..visit would have to be on neutral ground. H is not interested in going. I even offered to allow MIL to come visit for Thanksgiving (again no staying in MY home) but was turned down.

If my MIL went NC with xOW and continued to see OC, I would be more than fine with that. She never should have done any of this on her own and never should have exposed those children to that woman.

BTW, "enabling" is an understatement when it comes to my MIL. My H is her favorite and so it would go that OC is now her golden child.

Boy, I sound bitter. I am not, I am realistic and I take the job of protecting my children seriously.

LMAO at pep! She shore is a jenus and I am a grate speller. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

FF, it sounds like your MIL is very controlling (as are most enablers).


Sad, but unsurprising. My guess is that she was happy to find someone she could manipulate easily (ow). Perhaps you were not so malleable. And of course by agreeing to see your H's OW, she manipulates him.


Well I am glad you brought that up, because if I were you I would be concerned that she would bad-mouth you to your children. So, although it is sad that they currently do not have a relationship with their grandmother, perhaps it is best - for now.


Very reasonable.


Perhaps he is seeing through his mother's machinations. Or perhaps he does not want to be reminded of a bad time in his life. But at least it seems that he is on board with you regarding his family. That is a plus!


IMHO, very reasonable.


I really think that she jumped on an opportunity to be in control of something, and has lost a lot in the process. Unfortuntately she sounds too stubborn to admit that she made a big mistake.


I wouldn't say that at all. Angry perhaps. But anger dissipates if it isn't fed.

You really have to pity your MIL for being so short-sighted.

PK

Agreed, and I do.

EXACTLY!!

Hi all, i have not read this whole thread, it was starting to get nasty and i don't want to be a part of that...

FF - love ya, you have such a big heart...

now for the reason i am posting, to answer the initial question.

no apology occured for me (to the BW of the OM that was my DH's friend) because my BH wanted absolutely NO CONTACT. he contacted the guys brother and informed him of what had occured and made it clear he wanted NO CONTACT.

other than that i just want to say, i sure see a whole bunch of DJs occuring here regarding what is in the heart and mind of another person.

just an observation.

i'm sure some of the things stated is true of some OP, but not all and i personally don't think it's right to make those sort of blanket stmts.

meremortal,

medc expressed my thoughts exactly when he noticed that you'd posted three related threads in succession. I too was also wondering what triggered your thoughts about these things? I remember bits and pieces of your story (because I've been here longer than dirt)....so I knew you were many years past your divorce. Your focus, however....still seems to rest alot on the OW....and I was wondering if you thought that MB might be kinda triggering for you? This is a hard place to leave.....probably because we all feel a certain comraderie with people who really understand our pain, but sometimes....it really can keep people *stuck* in one of the stages of grief after infidelity. We come here and read about betrayal everyday.....and it can keep it alive and writhing sometimes.....ugh. I know when people post about certain things....my heart still speeds up.

How are things going with your daughters? Do you think that they may be understanding the dynamics a little better and realizing how much you love them? A while back you talked about some of the things you're doing just for you....and I hope that you've continued to do that and that your life is filling up with things that bring you joy.

Part of recovery, whether it's marital recovery or personal recovery is moving past the anger...and forgiveness....to a happy future and new opportunity.

I'd love to hear about how you're reaching out and building a new life.

Don't put down anchor here....

your life is not over and whether your exH is a part of it or OW still lives in your town....this is the only life you get! Everyday that you waste thinking about "them" is a day you lose to unhappiness. You've suffered long enough for his sins as well as the feigned innocence of this OW. What are you doing to have fun? To leave this pain behind?

Blessings to you and your girls.

This thread (01-11-08)

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/showthreaded.php?Cat=0&Number=3376485&page=

started people thinking about this topic

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

However, there are aunts and uncles, cousins, siblings, grandparents and so forth that may not want to ostracize the waywards. That sort of choice would become even more difficult for the extended family if the wayward spouses changed their ways, returned to their spouses and worked toward recovery.

What do you think should be done in cases such as this that happen so often?



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



PepperBand's response:

"Ostracism of waywards helps them find bottom sooner. It's a generous gift to give someone heck-bent on self destruction and other destruction.
If the waywards "change their ways", they are no longer wayward. WELCOME BACK to the family !"

I totally agree! And I don't see how refusing to associate with the OP (ever), or even the WS (WHILE/BECAUSE the adultery is going on), "would become even more difficult for the extended family if the wayward spouses changed their ways, returned to their spouses and worked toward recovery". I would think the opposite would be true: that if the WS's relatives had agreed to meet and socialize with the OP, then the awkwardness when the WS became FWS SHOULD be caused by those relatives' having chosen to accept the OP into their lives (ESPECIALLY if they continued to have anything to do with the OP while the BS and FWS were trying to recover their marriage!). I would have to question what the motives of such relatives would be! And I certainly wouldn't want anything to do with those relatives until/unless they stopped all contact with the OP!

Oh and BTW, I would definitely not believe any apology from the OW if she was still having any contact with those relatives either. THANK GOD my IL's never met the OW. It's bad enough that they encouraged my WH to bash me and blame me for his adulteries. But their usual opinion of the OW is that they either didn't really exist (because WH assured them I was just 'jealous' or 'lying' and we didn't live near IL's so there was never any chance they'd run into WH and OW out in public)... or that the OW did exist BUT supposedly our marriage was so bad/dead, and of course ONLY because I supposedly wasn't a good enough wife (there was a presumption that my WH surely was a reat husband LOL) so it was OK for my WH to cheat on me.

The latest OW was very interested in meeting my daughters and at one point had even convinced my WH of the 'goodness' of that lunacy. But after pointing out that my daughters also wanted to meet her - to tell her off! - my WH managed to talk OW out of that part of her agenda. I'm pretty sure that particular OW would have loved to meet and get chummy with WH's family. Oh, and I also know she REALLY wanted to get pregnant with WH's baby too. In fact this is one of the things OW and WH fought a LOT about - how he didn't want any more kids but she thought he 'owed it to her' to have 3 kids with her because otherwise it would be something he did with me that he didn't share with her! (Of course it had nothing to do with his fat paycheck and her scheming to get some of it for child support... that my getting support money from him every payday is something he 'shared' with me but wouldn't be sharing with her LOL. BTW WH admitted she spent a lot of time on the phone screaming at the father of her out-of-wedlock kid for more money. Oh and the relatives of that baby's father don't have anything to do with the OW - smart folks.)

I already have nothing to do with the X-laws for numerous reasons. I ABSOLUTELY would not even acknowledge their existence if they had met and welcomed the OW!!!

Star*Fish -

I assure you my new life is very busy and that I am moving forward. (We can discuss that further in a different thread if you like - but I still need to discuss these topics I brought up.)

Actually, it is because I am feeling closer to moving on that I wanted to finally discuss some aspects of the whole mess that I had not really focused that much on, and had not seen addressed much here at MB's. I had brought up these issues a few times inside other threads over the years because they were important to me but they never got discussed much until now. I have also seen other BW's here mention it too but again it is not one of the topics here at MB's that gets discussed very thoroughly. I want to get it out, examined, and over with so I can move on.

I wouldn't exactly call it stuck... since as I said these topics haven't really been addressed in much depth here before. More like, OK let's process this part of it now, instead of just ignoring it and hoping it will go away.

Also, there are a couple of reasons why this is on my mind now too. As I already stated, the OW has launched a pretty ambitious, very public in-your-face campaign in our smallish town to try to pretend she is practically a saint... but of course she's said or done nothing to apologize to me or my daughters for the immense damage she inflicted, or to even admit to people that the rumors she spread were lies. (BTW, the damage caused to my daughters is nowhere near being totally recovered from so IMHO the OW's obsession with repairing her reputation is particularly repulsive considering she has yet to show any remorse for what she did to my daughters and what immense effort and time it is taking to repair the damage SHE inflicted on them.)

And my youngest daughter has recently been saying things indicating that her perception of the whole thing has shifted to accomodate her Daddy's POV (blaming me and/or pretending that what her WF and the OW did wasn't really so bad... "everyody does it").

So partly because this aspect of the adultery has not been really focused on yet in my recovery, and because I am dealing with some current related problems caused by the OW, right now is a good time for me to post about this here at MB's.

You know I've sometimes wondered why this doesn't get discussed much here at MB's? Is there some specific reason for that? I personally don't much care for the whole you have to keep quiet about what's bothering you or that means you aren't getting over it fast enough thinking. I believe MB's is needed partly because in our daily lives we BS's are too often expected to pretend that adultery isn't such a big deal, something that can be gotten over quite quickly and easily. Maybe I'm just venting and that's exactly what I need to do right now? Maybe the very thing I need to finally put this in the past is to stop suppessing discussion and emotions related to the OW, to just get it all out now in a safe environment where I won't be cruelly subjected to listening to defense of the OW?

It is much more important to me to actually get over all this then to merely appear to be over it. And that will take showing and discussing how I really feel - not suppressing anymore.

"other than that i just want to say, i sure see a whole bunch of DJs occuring here regarding what is in the heart and mind of another person.
just an observation.
i'm sure some of the things stated is true of some OP, but not all and i personally don't think it's right to make those sort of blanket stmts."

You know, from my persepctive, the above statements from you could very easily be considered a VERY DJ. Please consider that my perspective is of a BS who lives in a small town with an unrepentent, unapologetic OW, who is well aware of the damage she inflicted on my family, yet instead of apologizing chooses to flaunt her supposed 'goodness' all around town with acts of charity and volunteering to be the 'greeter' at her church, etc.

She knows that one of my daughters ended up in the adult psychiatric ward for a few months and she knows that another daughter started cutting herself and said she felt like her Daddy was pretending she was dead when he was with the OW and her little girl! She knows we lost our home and all our savings through the divorce. She knows that at the same time she was cheating with my husband I was diagnosed with severe hypertension. She knows my daughters had to stop skating because we could no longer afford the skating AND the adultery/divorce. She knows that one of my daughters totally stopped speaking to her daddy, then stopped skating (the love of her life), then stopped going anywhere, then stopped: speaking, eating, bathing...

This OW knows all this and has NEVER spoken a word of apology to us OR a word of remorse to anyone in town as far as we know. This OW claims she was a victim of my WH, that's ALL. Even though she continued the adultery for over a year after she KNEW the truth she still claims she ONLY slept with a married man because she (supposedly) believed his lies (plus she eventually added a new justification - no doubt to coincide with her new image as a charitable person - that she felt sorry for him because he had cancer... Maybe all women married to men with cancer should be alerted about her 'volunteerism'?)

So IMHO your chastisement in this thread (and defense of unapologetic OW's) is inappropriate to the point of being hurtful to BS's. I find it highly offenseive that even here at MB's BS's are expected to just be quiet and not express their true feelings about how the OW inflict such immense damage and then fail to even apologize. But I guess to some even here at MB's, the most important thing is to make sure adulterers don't feel any guilt or shame... (Sheesh - no wonder the BW and BC hardly ever get an apology from the OW - the BW are supposed to just keep quiet abou the damage the OW inflicted or risk being accused of being 'nasty' towards the OW?)

I'm sorry but your sort of 'blanket statements' are not welcome in this thread. If you want to start a new thread all about how supposedly awful it is that BW's won't just shut up and put up with the harm the OW caused their family... how it's a DJ for the BW to refuse to pretend the OW was innocent, or didn't cause any damage, or doesn't owe anyone an apology... then do so if you must... (sigh) Just keep that INSENSITIVE, RUDE garbage out of my thread.

Meremortal,

Reading about your DD's made me cry. I am so very sorry you had to endure all of that, plus everything else.

If you don't mind me asking. How are they doing now?

Do you believe at some point things really do go full circle?

Also, do you have a thread somewhere that tells the gist of your story? I'm not familiar with your whole story just bits and pieces and would be interesting in reading it.

LC

Meremortal, you've been awefully sensitive lately. Is everything ok?

Aside from that, I'm reading in your posts a bit of almost obsessiveness with the OW. Remember this - she is a vile piece of toxic waste. She's not worth the effort or attention you are giving her. Reread this portion of your post:

"... This OW claims she was a victim of my WH, that's ALL. Even though she continued the adultery for over a year after she KNEW the truth she still claims she ONLY slept with a married man because she (supposedly) believed his lies (plus she eventually added a new justification - no doubt to coincide with her new image as a charitable person - that she felt sorry for him because he had cancer... Maybe all women married to men with cancer should be alerted about her 'volunteerism'?) "

Now imagine somebody else not connect to your marriage at all, say a neighbour or an old friend from school that you ran into who you have no reason to judge one way or another walked up to you and said these things. Honestly, if someone told you they slept with ANY guy because he had cancer, do you really think anybody would find that saintly or even remotely respectful?? People may be stupid in general, but they aren't that stupid. Anybody who actually bought this story is frankly not worth a pile of beans anyway.

The fact that she doesn't apologize is just another sign of her (lack of) character. You are in a small town, that means everybody knows she is a homewrecker. Everybody knows that your problems and your children's problems are due to her. People might put on a false smile to her because they have been raised to be polite in all circumstances, but trust me honey, they know exactly what she is. The fact that she demonstrates no remorse just proves it - to you as well as them.

MM...I am sorry that I don't know the answer to these questions...

How are your daughters now? Have they resumed skating?

Have you been able to find housing as you said you lost your home?

I don't want to pry...I just want to make sure you are doing alright.

Meremortal, this must have been excruciating for you. It's one thing to be in pain yourself; it's another to see your children suffering.

I'm not totally familiar w/your story (although I think I remember you saying somewhere that your daughters are involved in synchro skating and your H brought the OW to a competition) - I believe that there was more than one OW?. Are these your only daughters? Are things better now for them?

All I can say is that I would be willing to bet that *many* people consider the source when hearing about you from the OW. Most people of a certain age are not that gullible; plenty of them are probably thinking very unpleasant things about her(OW) when she is bad-mouthing you.

PK

Meremortal,

Your DD's are sychro skaters? My DD18 was also a sychro skater until 2 years ago when she gave it up to be more involved in school activities. I wonder if we have ever crossed paths.

My email addy is in my profile if you care to chat off the board.

LC

i got a pathetic excuse of an apology from ow. something along the lines of "i am sorry. i should have just waited until your marriage died a natural death AND THEN pursued XXX"

pfft.. that's not an apology. i told her never to email me again. and it was short lived anyway. within months she was back to making my life a living ******.

When the infidelity has occurred within a family between BIL and SIL, even after the adultery has ended and reconciliation has been completed.

Even recovery will not mend the extended family. That family is still going to have a rift. The spouses of the unfaithful SIL and BIL, if they understandably stick with NC, will never be able to be together during the holidays. Or funerals. Or weddings. Or christenings. etc.

Do you see what I mean?

I know of a family where SIL and BIL had an affair. The affair ended and the married couples reconciled. There was an extra layer of difficulty in that one of the reconciled couples (couple1) thought they could handle it and were not concerned about having NC with the other couple. They would willingly attend any family function, even if couple2 was there.

Couple2 who knew that they did NOT want to have contact told the extended family that there were not willing to be in the same house during any family gathering as long as couple1 was invited.

That's the situation I was describing.

The extended family is now split. Couple2 who insisted on NC are finding little sympathy from their own extended family, because "after all the couple1 is okay with it".

NC couple2's feelings are hurt and they feel that couple1 is being chosen and favored over themselves.

The extended family doesn't want to choose. That was the type of situation I was talking about.

What would be the suggested course for the extended family?

Infidelity really can continue to ripple long after the affair is over.

Were you asking me this question?



.... I have no "happily ever after" solution

sometimes families are simply ruined by these choices to screw around <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

not everything can be fixed

I suppose moving far away and starting over may be one way to recover a marriage in such a situation

I donno....