So, I spoke with dh again last night. He said "I'm so confused. You know you're confusing me, right? You're acting like you did when we fell in love."

I think I snickered and said "I know". How does one respond to that type of comment? Is it normal for WS to realize this? I feel like it's a step forward, I guess I just need some positive reinforcement. And FWIW, this isn't something he's realized in the past 3 days, but the past month or so -- so it's a culmination. I was already doing this (meeting his needs) before I found the MB site this week.

Anyway, he continues to maintain that his relationship has nothing to do with ours and the reason for our (impending -- or not) divorce. He said that he had already decided to divorce me before she came along. Is this normal? I feel like it must be but it's discouraging. (AND -- I did tell him that I don't want to talk about relationships (his/mine his/hers) anymore.)

Hi Meagan,

Yep, this is right out of the WS handbook. He's re-writing your marital history and this is VERY common...

I think his comment about you acting like you did when he fell in love with you are VERY telling. He's torn between the OW and you... Keep up your Plan-A efforts and let the exposure continue to work.

You're doing a great job! Hang in there and let us know if we can help you with any specific questions.

Semper Fi,

RIF

"So, I spoke with dh again last night. He said "I'm so confused. You know you're confusing me, right? You're acting like you did when we fell in love."

Oh, very good job. You are doing just fine. Ignore his other babble.

Thanks RIF and Believer. It's hard to ignore the babble, but after reading here this week, I get it.

I picked up SAA and HNHN at the library yesterday so I'm on my way with those. I sent the 4 articles in the Infidelity series to dh yesterday so I'm hoping he's receptive to them when the package arrives.

Hi Meagan,

Don't be surprised if he doesn't read the articles...

Think of it like this... If you try to teach a pig to read, you'll end up frustrated, and the pig won't care.

Now, your H isn't a pig, though his actions may be piggish... but the bottom line here is, is that you can't "educate" him. If he choses to read the articles, great!, but don't place any hopes in it... continue working your Plan-A regardless of what he says or does...

Semper Fi,

RIF

Okay so his cell phone bill came in and I see now (as I suspected) that he was speaking to her the whole time he was here for Christmas/baby's birth and lied to me the whole time.

I confronted him about it over the phone just now and of course he became angry and spouted back "I asked you not to check the phone bill". He's right, I agreed to not do so but I had a gut feeling and I was right. So, how do I respond to that? I need some help with reverse babble on this one as I have no idea what to say.

I'm so hurt. I'm not surprised at all, but I still feel like I got punched in the stomach. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Hi Meagan,

I'm not very good at reverse-babbling... hopefully Orchid will stop by and give you a hand.

If he asks you again to 'not check the phone bill' you could tell him that you can not agree to that because you are committed to doing whatever it takes to save the M...

Semper Fi,

RIF

Don't agree to it, and don't apologize for it. What? He's mad at you for snooping on his infidelity and catching him lying to you?! Do you see how absurd that is?

Don't get sucked into that type of thing. Be quite open about the fact that you know he's a liar and isn't trustworthy. If he doesn't like it, tell him that you don't either.

However, strategically, it isn't necessarily a good thing to tip your hand about what you know and how you know it. You knowing is good. Him knowing you know isn't necessarily good. It won't be long before he has an affair phone that you can't check. Evaluate carefully what you reveal.

Thanks so both of you. Unfortunately, I suspected I may have made a mistake regarding letting him on to my knowing. I feel like I set us back so far in doing this. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I left him alone for the day and he finally called me just before he had to be at work (he works nights). He said he was surprised that I hadn't called and I said that I was giving him his space to which he said thank you (and sounded surprised LOL). He wasn't as angry as before, but still maintained his stance that I was in the wrong because I looked at his records. Furthermore, he maintained that this is why it will never work between us: I won't trust him and he doesn't want to listen to me. "His" reasoning is stupid -- of course he doesn't want to listen to me! I want him to give up his girlfriend. LOL

Either way, I maintained my calm and told him that trust couldn't be turned off/on like a light switch (to which he commented neither could his feelings). He received the package today with the Infidelity articles and said that he wouldn't read them (herein returns the bad timing issue) but he did thank me for that hat I made and sent him. He called back a few times; he was surprised at the response he was getting (ie my being calm) and I think he didn't know what to do. In the end, I just told him that I wasn't giving up on him and that I loved him.

Bad day overall but I learned a lesson: don't be too quick to act.

Oh and I also paid one of those reverse phone number look-up services for her information. I haven't received it yet so I hope it comes through. I want to find and contact her mother to reveal the affair. I won't get too ahead of myself on that one, but I'm thinking the time could be coming that I *could* play that card.

Well, he just called and apologized! He said that he was sorry for getting angry with me and that he didn't expect me to trust him because he didn't give me any reason to. I thanked him for that apology.

So, there ya go. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Pixie-girl,

You situation sounds like mine, except I hope you learn much faster than I do. If it makes you feel better, my WS has said all those same things to me..(I put the "final" nail in the coffin last night..according to him...). I find the saddest part of all of this is that the WS don't even say anything original.

Sounds like your Plan A is working, so keep up the good work and we'll keep praying for you.

Not2fun

Not2Fun,
It's funny because I take comfort in the fact that nothing is original. It makes me feel better, for the first time in my life, to be "normal". My husband's affair is "normal". LOL

Anyway, also wanted to let you know that I got my Rx for Wellbutrin and started it today. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Meagan

Last thing from me tonight...

Do you find it discouraging to see the number of times your WS is speaking to the OP? That's one thing that struck me when looking at his phone bill today -- they talk A LOT. He may speak to me for 8 minutes, but her for 30. There was one night last week where they spoke for 2 hours! What could they possibly have to talk about for 2 hours! It's like high school kids!

Pixie,

I recently had the dubious honor of listening to several hours of recorded affair telephone & regular conversations.

I'll give you a breakdown of the topics discussed. These are in no particular order.

First keep in mind that grown adults in affairs seem to lose about 40 IQ points when talking on the phone to each other.

1. Lies. That's right. A good portion of the affair talk was lies. There were lies about the spouse (I couldn't get here sooner because he/she _______) when the BS in question was actually at work and had not spoken or seen the WW. But he was used for the lying excuse for the tardiness. There were lies about the "meanness" of the BS, or their shortcomings, etc.

2.In this particular affair, the OM was the bossy one. He kept telling the WW what she should be doing to end the marriage. Much of his time was spent barking orders, accusing her of not doing what she was supposed to be doing to end the marriage, and concocting verbal responses to be fed to the BS later if needed.

3. The WW would respond with bogus reasons and more lies as to why she couldn't do what OM wanted, he just didn't understand, it was just soooo hard for her. (Just insert a lot of verbal foot dragging here.) Cranky OM starts raising voice and accusing WW of not listening and not doing what she had agreed to do.

4. Jr High level equivalents of "I like you, do you like me? circle yes or no. Mixed in with a kind of googoo baby talk (I AM NOT MAKING THIS UP).

5. Whining. Lots of whining. About how hard it all was. About how suspicious the BS (said with great indignancy). How everything was so difficult. Why can't things be easier? Why doesn't this happen, and why can't that happen?

6. Complaining. Lots of complaining. "She was sneaking around trying to find my cell phone!!!" "I think he was looking through my jewelry box." "He walked around the house and never said a single word to me." "She hasn't washed a dish in 3 days." "He told me he doesn't trust me!"

6. Time spent putting together a cover story regarding the missing time. Listing, considering and sometimes contacting friends who can be called on to verify their lie in case the BS questions the veracity of the line of bull being spread and the WS can say "You can call sosos and just see for yourself!"

7. Discussions of how the money/property will divide. Children and custody not even mentioned much less discussed.

8. Really bad, uneducated legal "advice" as the plot continues on what can be done to increase their success as/if things move toward court.

9. Plans on how they will get together next time.

10. Some flirtation and some sex talk, not very much though.
I'm sure there are more sophisticated adulterers out there, but the flirty sex talk was stilted and the equivalent to what you might have engaged in or heard circa 8th grade.

11. Out of several hours of interaction, the phrase "I love you" occurred less than half a dozen times.

12. Inane talking about songs, listen to this song, I like this song, remember this song, yada yada yada.

13. Throw in some "how was your day" type conversation.

14. Comments in passing about people they mutually know.

That's about it.

I haven't downplayed a thing. The only thing that can explain it is that the brain chemicals coursing over their gray cells somehow translates it into something meaningful.

Hey Pixie-girl,

****YEAH**** for you. Hopefully the meds will help you. I know they do me, and I've had some pretty rotten days. I can't imagine what those days would have been like without them...

Your comment about being "normal" was funny. I do know what you mean about getting comfort in that. I do feel that way also, its just whenever he sports one of those stupid fog-sayings I just want to roll my eyes and say "tell me something I haven't already heard".

By the way, he called to tell me that he cares for me (gag...really any words of endearment right now just tick me off...like what the heck did you go and do this for....) and that "we will be fine" and that he is still going to MC app. monday. So, I guess I didn't nail that coffin tight enough...

I am still VERY new at this, so I am making tons of mistakes, so bear with me. It sounds like you are doing well in you Plan A. But then if you are like me, you'd rather have a magic pill to make it all go away (hey, do you think that maybe BS are not terribly original as well???). Anyway, keep up the good work, let me know how the meds are doing for you. Give beautiful baby a kiss and dream good dreams tonight....


Not2fun

graplin,
thank you. i'm sorry you actually had to listen to that slop. i hope you're right about what's being discussed. i still can't imagine what one adult would say to another in a 2 hour phone call. i can only assume that there would be a lot of back and forth, as you suggest. i know she's placed *insane* demands on him in the past and I can only hope that she continues to do so (in LB style). (When he came home for Christmas/baby's birth, she actually asked (demanded?) that he take ALL her phone calls. Eventually he told her that was unreasonable, which led to an argument. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> )

Not2Fun,
I know it's hard to take the endearment seriously sometimes, but grasp a hold of it if it makes you feel better about your day/situation. Or not. LOL Waffling is a good thing here, I guess. It means they haven't given up the fight. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Just wanted to update (sort of journaling here, I guess...)

I called dh this morning and we had a little "together" time if you KWIM... I know that one of his top emotional needs is sexual fulfillment and this is one thing I definitely didn't give him much of so this is kinda fun (snicker).

Afterwards, I expected to let him go, as he'd only slept for a few hours and has to work again tonight, but he brought up the subject of having read the first of the 4 Infidelity articles I sent. I think he felt much the way I did when I first read them: relief -- we're not alone! We talked for almost 2 hours and so I can't even begin to cover everything and I won't try, but it was a very good conversation! I really think he's coming around (but I'm trying not to get too far ahead of myself in "hoping). He said he's questioning whether what he has with her (or what he thinks he has) is all that and a bag of potato chips or if it's just new relationship, etc. I told him that their relationship was exactly what they made it because much of the real world was absent from it and left it at that.

Anyway, I can't even begin to remember what all was said right now but it was very good and I feel really good about it. Do you think now would be a good time to encourage some family members who have BTDT to speak to him pointedly about the situation? I think if he had a little prodding it might put him over the edge. I told him that I wasn't pressuring him or making any demands and that as much as it hurt me, I knew it was hard for him to make this decision. I just feel like he's almost *there*.

Oh, I'm also curious as to the VETS thoughts about the following situation.

OW has two daughters, 12 and 15. Apparently, last weekend, dh and the OW "outed" themselves to her daughters, kinda. They explained that the reason dh had not been around for 3 weeks is because he was at home with his family, having a baby. Apparently the older girl referred to me as his "wife or x-wife" so she seems to understand that what's happening may be an affair. Thing is, they didn't correct her.

So, what's the merit in them outing their relationship themselves? I kinda see it as them "paving the road" for a continued relationship but even if this was their intention, I wonder if it could backfire on them? KWIM?

Hey Pixie-girl,

First off what is KWIM?? Glad to hear you are in better modes today. And it is ok to be hopeful, just remember that the changes you make in Plan A are for YOU... not him. If he gets to reap the benefits of the changes, all the more better.

Have you seen the GODDESSES thread. I suggest you pop in there and check it out. It is very good for the self-esteem and give you any tips you may need for PA. or you always give us some tips...lol, Lord knows I need all the help I can get.

I would comment on your situation, but I wouldn't begin to know where to begin. Remembe, I am a newbie myself.

Hope all is well with you and give the babies some love for me....

not2fun