You guys can break out the 2x4's because I just cannot do this anymore. I don't know if it's me or it's him, or both but I am miserable.

I asked him to move out again. I've been thinking about it all week, including last night.

I don't think I am recoverable, in the marriage that is.

I did not ask for a divorce and even told him I am not ready for that step.

I cannot help it. I cannot go through the pain of recovering with him when I feel like he is making little effort to help me with the things I need the most right now.

Maybe a true separation for a few months will help me to see where I am at fault better.

All I know is that this will also create more fears for me.

Mopey - don't take this the wrong way, but Windstopped's posts yesterday were eerily reminicent of RLT's WH right before under threat of a polygraph all sorts of stuff flowed out.

I think the rabbit hole is deeper than he has admitted and that this is why your recovery is stalled and you don't feel as if he is "putting in"

Maybe a separation will help him clear his mind.

I have often wondered if he is still hiding things but, I just cannot imagine that he could tell me all that he has and not tell me the rest.

I didn't take it the wrong way BK. And what I need the most right now is complete and total honesty. I need you guys to tell me like you see it.

Honestly BK, It feels to me that he has decided that there are certain things he feels is necessary for recovery and it stops there. If I need anything more, I feel he perceives it as a demand.

I see him dribbling out information on a "need to know" basis.

I see lack of intimacy in your marriage as a result of dishonesty about feelings as well as history.

Has he read any Harley books? Has he seen a counsellor about or been diagnosed with a sexual addiction?

Can you counsel with Steve Harley?

Most definitely! I do not talk about affair details hardly ever anymore mostly because I didn't feel I would get an honest answer anyway. And he NEVER shared more than what was asked by me.

Even on stuff that doesn't involve the affair details. I have to pull info out of him to find out what he is thinking. And I always feel like he only tell me "what I need to know".



And I feel the lack of intimacy. He did fill out the personal history questionnaire and was amazed at the number of women that was on there and those were only ones that he had some kind of relationship with. If I'm not mistaken, he slept with about 40+? (I have to look again) women from high school unil he met me when he was 25.



He has read HNHN, Lovebusters, and a slew of other books.



Talked to a counselor about it and he said he didn't think he had a sexual addiction. But I do not think that counselor was qualified to diagnose it. He has been on the RecoveryNation website and I think the guy who put that site together thinks he should be there.

He just started seeing a different counselor last week. Who knows what she will say.



We had a few counseling sessions with Jennifer some time ago, but we stopped. I would like to continue with the new counselor that we're seeing for the time being.

That would be a deal breaker for me. THAT is NOT honesty.

I sadly agree with BK's assessment and shuddered last night when WindStopped posted...I got the EXACT same feeling that I did on RLT's thread when her husband posted...

What I would like to see happen is for WindStopped to come here, start his own thread and let us run him through the bullchit sniff test...

And I REALLY, REALLY hate saying all this Mopey...I pray that we are wrong in our assessments...

Mrs. W

Mopey - the thing is I believe his posts on this thread were for SHOW.

He is making the bare minimum effort - the minimum you require to stay married to you. It's time to raise that bar.

I agree with Mrs W. Applying the blowtorch to him will be difficult in the current MB environment however.

Mopey...

Take a look at the similarities between the post from Windstopped last night and the post of FWHofRLT right before she found out all the stuff that she did...



Reading the two of those give me chills...
(((((Mopey)))))

Mrs. W

TOTALLY MrsW!!

This is why I need to post.

I don't think he's told me everything. The lie I caught him in a few months ago after the polygraph was "have you ever thought about your ex gf after the ONS before we married"? (I was looking to see if he was pining for her after that night) The answer was a definite "no". I got specific and asked if he ever thought about her at all. Definite "no". Well, that didn't sound right cuz I figured if I had a ONS with an ex right before I was married, I'm thinking I would have thought about that night a few times. And we all know how much he enjoyed his sexual fantasies in the past.....

So, I asked him, "Did you ever see her again after that night?". Well, turns out, yes he had. He had seen her at least 6 times at a restaurant that is not 5 miles from our house which we had been frequenting! Supposedly ex gf didn't work there when we were having dinner there. But the point is, that is how all of our conversations went. It was like pulling teeth. AND that information was extremely hurtful to keep from me! He had already been reading here on MB in these forums for over a year and he was still abusing me like that. This incident was probably about 3 months ago.

A huge part of me not being able to "look towards the future" with him is because I DO NOT FEEL SAFE.

I have not had any more "affair detail" sessions with him like that because of the way he answers and lied. And you can't ask 50 questions on a polygraph!

Talking about my triggers is a whole nutther story..... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

I hear ya. The feeling I got was that it was "poor him" again. Anyone else get that vibe?



That would extremely beneficial for our recovery in my opinion, but I doubt he will do it. I've already asked him to. It was on my list of things that could help me recover from his infidelities.

It's one of the reasons I feel like his recovery efforts are lacking......I asked Jennifer Harley about this. She thought it was a great idea and to incorporate it into "my needs". HE doesn't think it's necessary for our recovery and because he doesn't want to do it, then he shouldn't have to. If it makes me feel bad, well then, I am being a demanding bia. I honestly feel like it would help us tremenously to work through this chit but it is falling on deaf ears. Makes me feel low in the self-esteem dept. Not the way I see myself personally, but it makes me feel "worth less" when I put him into the equation.

I lovingly asked him many times to at least talk or respond to me somehow about my posts when I make them. No go there either.



Ya know Mrs. W., I don't think anything could shock me at this point. But I know it would hurt.

Thanks for looking out for me.

Sorry BK. Missed this. So, you felt it too. I can spot them a mile away I think.



I would say the bare minimum always involves openess and honesty and emotional support. He seems to be wonderful in all other areas. Mostly.



And this has been where my biggest conflict has come in. I honestly think he'd rather divorce me than listening and acting on those two needs above.

He'd rather run an errand or do the dishes for me than to work this stuff out with me.

Yeah BK. I can see the kid gloves coming out now. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

You know what Mopey? I DARE him to post!!! Print this out and show it to him if you want to...In fact, I QUADRUPLE DAWG DARE him to...It really sticks in my craw that he won't do something as simple as posting here for you...It screams INSINCERE to me, AND I think one of the reasons, if not the sole reason, that he won't post is because he KNOWS that his bullcrap won't fly here...That we will read right through him...I need to go back and read the posts that he has made here...Right now I think he needs a wake up call...

What was his reaction to your asking him to move out?

Mrs. W

Gave me the chills Mrs. W. They both reek of fakeness.

My H has always lived with a facade. It's one of the reasons he is in counseling.

Thanks for the hugs.

Lol Mrs. W! He probably wouldn't consider it a challenge, more like a threat or something that will make ME mentally challenged somehow.



Yeah, mine too. OH, but he claims that he values me more than anyone on the planet. To do something he doesn't feel comfortable with would be "asking him to cross a boundary of his". And if I were to feel hurt by it, I'M ENMENSED IN HIM.



He is a HUGE conflict avoider, passive-agressive and an expert in gaslighting. Good luck guys. You've got your work cut out for ya.

All bullchit detectors....Please sign up.



Let's see....I was sitting here numb and crying and quiet.....


I am a bia.

He bets my "MB cheerleading squad will want me to divorce him".

Said I was a freeloader and not a buyer. Oh, but HE is now, and has been for the past 6 months....lol....geez, now that I read that, that's funny! I don't care who you are! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

This would be our final separation and that I'd better start looking into attorneys and such.

He'd rather stay in a hotel than stay in a free room at anyone in my family's house. I'm pretty sure we couldn't afford counseling if we did that. Unless we used our savings.

Something about me sleeping in the house that he is paying for.

*I* am sabotaging the marriage and afraid of change.

I should look for cheaper housing.

I am a controlling person and weak (in so many words) and I am not handling the pain well.

*I* am trying to "keep him under my thumb by refusing to move forward" and always bringing up the past.

Taunted me for making these notes.....lol....but it hurt.

He said if I cannot win in a conversation (not trying to win) that I will ridicule him instead.

And my favorite....I use MB for escaping.

And all of that is about half of what he said.

Get the picture?

That is why I took notes this time. This is how our so called healing conversations always turn out.