Til I was blue in the face. Joseph's letter, analogies, the whole nine yds.

Hahahaha...you are so funny! LOL!

I'm going to hang with the hubby for a while and then off to bed. I will catch you again in the morning!

((((mopey))))

Try to get some sleep, sweetie!!

And LaLa....yes I did LB big time right after d-day. Each one. The LBs got worse though, because of the teeth pulling and lies. Had he been honest up front, I'm still sure I would have been po'd and gave him a piece of mind for a few weeks or months. But I know if he had been telling me the truth the whole time, I would have gone through all the grieving stages just like everyone else and would be way past the anger.

Thank you so much for being here for me LaLa. I feel kinda bad because you have so much going on yourself.

I'll be going to bed after I do my 2 hours of homework. I've been unable to concentrate on it so far. Have to turn it in tommorow. /sigh.

Peace out.

I can't believe I didn't thank BK and Mrs. W too!

Thanks you guys.

So.....I'm second guessing myself about him moving out. I am wondering if I should hang tight and give counseling a try while still living in the same house.

I cannot keep going back and forth. It is not fair to him.

I have an appt with our counselor tommorow. I'll discuss this with her.

Yeah, back and forth is bad. I've been thinking on this...

The purpose of the MB program seems to center on the bettering of your own self while waiting for the A to end. Since his As have ended (hopefully), you are questioning if you are truly in recovery...or what the heck is going on!! I told you last night you are spinning your wheels as his mindset is still foggy and wayward and you are (and have been) at the end of the patience rope! With this in mind, it seems you have been stuck in a mindset of wanting him to do something to make you feel happy/safe/secure in the M. We all know that a wayward is incapable of doing this, and that is why you are so frustrated.

I would like to suggest that you put him and his actions/words aside for a moment. Figure out what it is going to take for you to make YOURSELF happy. You said that for years, you pretty much led your own lives, did your own things, etc. That does need to change down the line when you are in recovery, in accordance with the 15 hrs a week and POJA, etc. For now, though, you must start to recover for yourself. Until he (on his own-you KNOW you cannot educate him) decides that he is really going to make the effort to change his mindset, you must accept this if you are going to live together, and dig within yourself to find happiness and peace. You have a lot of things going for you: you are smart and funny, you have your school to concentrate on...what else can you tell me about yourself that your are proud of and that make you feel good?

The point here is that he is not going to change until you do. The change in my mindset was when DH said he was DONE, wanted a D and he MEANT it. He had NOT threatened it over and over, so I was not foolish enough to believe he was bluffing. It scared me to the core and I immediately came here to figure out what needed to happen for ME to put an end to all the madness. You have read here over and over, I'm sure, that a wayward cannot be educated by the BS. That any R and A talks will be met with anger and frustration and in the wayward's mind, they are not doing things just to appease you (even though they are!)...THEY think (just as I did) that they ARE doing everything they can to help the BS recover. And so, the vicious cycle goes on and on.

I am asking you to take a step back, control what you can control...and that is YOU and YOUR HAPPINESS. Windstoped cannot control that for you, although he can be a great source of joy when he reaches the conclusion (on his own) that he has NOT done all he can. At that point, happiness can be shared both of you and real recovery and healing can begin. That is the time and place where your needs will be met and you can rely on him more as a source of companionship, support, and happiness.

Your other option is Plan B. If you have truly begun to question your love for Windstopped (which from your posts seems to not be true if you are really honest with yourself), then you must GO to Plan B and stay there until he agrees to do the things required by you to move back in together. IMHO, I do not think this is what must happen. Separation for you guys would be bad right now---IF you want to recover the M. And noone is going to judge you either way. But you must be sure. You should decide if this M is what you want, and then proceed according to your decision.

Ask yourself...can I have true, romantic love with someone who has been unfaithful/dishonest to me numerous times? Can we be a happily M couple and live as a true PARTNERSHIP? Can we adopt the policy of POJA lovingly and willing after so many years of "doing our own thing?" What are the things that I love about Windstopped that make him the person I want to spend the rest of my life with? (that last one is the most important)

Once you figure out what the reasons are that make you want to be with him and recover your M, it will give you focus to work your plan. At that point, it will be your goal to make him feel that you CAN get over this, and that he CAN be completely honest with you in order to get to the whole truth. Until he believes this, he has no motivation to change, because he is scared that even if he does do the work (which he feels he is doing already!) you will leave him anyways.

Does this make sense?

LaLa....I have been churning all of these same thoughts over and over in my head for the past 5 months. Thought I was going to be good and then bam, more lies.

What I do know is that I don't think that I can convince even myself that I can get over this if I don't know the whole truth. It wasn't right of him to withhold the truth because he didn't think I could or couldn't get over it. That is manipulation and abuse. Once I am sure I know everything, which I believe the burden for that is on him at this point, then I will be able to go where you are suggesting. If it seems that I can't get over it it's because I don't know if the other shoe is going to drop soon. So, maybe 12 weeks is long enough to consider him trustworthy? Maybe?

I have 12 weeks of no lies, so far, to go on.

And I do not care what his reasons are for not being honest. He CAN be honest. Just because I don't like what he is telling me doesn't give him the right to hold back.


And like I said earlier, if I had known the whole truth from the start, I would be going through all the grieving stages just like everyone else and be way past the anger.

I am a bit gun shy at this point.

If he'd been honest and I felt like I could trust him right now, and I felt SAFE WITH HIM, I wouldn't have to convince him of anything. He could see that I was happy. He knows I want this marriage. Just not the way it is now.

His recovery efforts and his lies are why I am stuck. I will have to make a decision of a plan B I guess if the counseling doesn't help. *I* may be able to recover but I may not be able to recover this marriage. As much as I'd like to.

I've been to the place of seeing a future with him. Spending 15 hrs a week with him. Only to have those dreams killed too by the betrayals of lies. It's hard to recover from this chit.

I really appreciate your repsonse. You gave me a lot to think about. I want to answer more but will have to do it in a little while.

OK...and just so you know, I cannot imagine how hard it has been with every one of those D-days...

I guess it would be somewhat different, maybe a little more "understandable" in a case where there was ONE A and even after D-day, more info came out. As time goes on, the BS gets through the fog here and there as to why it is important to have the WHOLE truth and ALL the details (because the BS may not have been able to express that need in the beginning and b/c the WS believes they are sparing the BS's feeling, etc). But to have mutiple As over a long period of time and then leak out the truth on a "need to know basis" just may be a deal breaker for a lot of people. It is, as you said, "manipulation and abuse."

My concern is for YOU. As you become stronger in your resolve one way or the other, it will help YOU to be OK.

That's what I care about...YOU being OK.

I will be creating a post on the recovery forum in response to several posts in this thread.

Mopey,

Catching up a little here, I had forgotten just how much our stories parallel.

I understand how you feel about just getting the truth in little dribbles, and at his discretion. And I am about 12 weeks out, also, on just getting the whole truth (I think).

I'm gun shy too. And waiting for the other shoe. And all of the other analogies you can come up with.

God, how did I ever get here???
How did life get so F--D up??

Dang yall! Windstopped is writing a book! I'm sceered....lol..... W2S would be proud...... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Poor guy. He's got a lot on his mind. I am sooo glad you double dawged dared him Mrs. W!......lol....

He said he was up to the challenge of a bullchit test....lol....Yay! Now maybe yall can kick both of our arses into shape. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Yeah.....I took a nice long bath, ate dinner and also watched a 30 minute show with my son and he was typing away the whole time. Hmmmmmm..... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> Yeah....I'm in trouble now, unh hunh, big trouble.

Well Im glad you decided to come out of hiding there too Missy RLT. Aint it cool to sit back and read someone else's thread that sounds just like your own? I do. Cuz I'm lazy and this chit is draining!

Please feel free to pipe up anytime youiz wantin to, K?

After seeing that book that Windstopped is writing I might need another "MB cheerleader" if ya know what I mean? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Cuz you've been there and are doing that.

Boy, after today I think I should check myself into the GODDESS thread. I'll need the therapy. Hope they take checks.

I'm still thinking about your post LaLa.....

I'm warming up my bullchit detertor even as we speak....

Makes my head spin girlfriend.

RLT....by the time we're done with this chit we could probably walk into a physchology exam and pass a final.

I didn't say that.

I said I'll post to give the BS detectors a chance to grill me.

Lol!......

Ooooops.....my bad already! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />