I'll be back later. I've gotta go pick my hubby up. He went to Austin yesterday. Now where'd I hide that remote?

PM....that's some good stuff you just wrote me there. I have to take a break and go get some food.

Thanks soooooo much for helping me to not feel alone.

If you guys are on later, I'll be here. I'm going to eat, curl up with some wine, and post here and cry my eyeballs out until tommorow. Then, I'm checking my [censored] into the GODDESS thread and making a list.

I want to repsond to your last post PM. I'll be back and thanks for stopping in.

Oh absolutely! I don't know how many times I've said I wished I'd found MB way back when it all started. I would of saved myself a lot of time and self-inflicted hurt. (I'm sure I would of have been 2x4'd a zillion times by the VETS.)

I don't recommend the long way around that I took to anyone, because even though we got to real recovery eventually, it was difficult and painful. I just see where Mopey's headed and I don't want to see her hurt unnecessarily.

What did we do? Well, basically we were stuck in a vicious cycle of DH being right where you are now, and me being in LaLa Land (pun intended). I was (unknowingly at the time) in "fake it till you make it" mode...A couple weeks after D-day, I took him to a casino a couple hrs away and tried to have some fun and re-connect with him. I even scheduled us facials because I thought he would get a kick out of it and it would relax us both a little. (he didn't care for it much, BTW, he is not a "facial" kinda guy!) What happened: he wanted to talk about the A and the R the whole time. I saw it as him trying to tear down what I was trying to re-build. There were probably 20 other occasions like this over a six month period...where I tried to schedule alone time so we could re-connect and he wanted to talk R and A the whole time, which inevitably ended up in a fight. I didn't know what to do. We were both stuck, and I got tired of trying to "make" things work between us, only to be "drug back down in the dirt" by DH.

Can you see the similarities here??

So, what had to happen was- I had to realize it had nothing to do with token nights away to show him I still cared (or flowers or cards, etc), because the underlying fact was, I was still holding onto justifications and past resentment (of why the A happened in the first place-where our M had been b4 all of it) and he could FEEL that, no matter what I DID.

It came down to the mindset, plain and simple. You were here that night, you know what happened to me. You heard the chit I was spewing. It was gaslighting- plain and simple. And I was so scared to lose him. I told you, he was where you are right now...unwilling to settle for less than what he knows he deserves. You can take a piece of chit and you can coat it in gold, then paint it and put pretty little clothes on it and make-up and the whole nine yards...but when you get to the bottom of it-it's still a piece of CHIT. We had a great R b4 all of this, so he knew what that meant within our R dynamic.

But, what would have happened if I had remained stubborn like so many WSs do? He would have either had to settle for whatever I was willing to give him, or we would be in the middle of a D.

Exactly, PM, we took the long way and it was soooo painful. I wish so many things....wish we hadn't disconnected, wish I hadn't had the A, wish I had realized the pain I had cause him, wish I had come here sooner, YOU NAME IT!

The place mopey is in right now BITES!!!! I wouldn't WISH it on my worst enemy!

Wow LaLa! Thanks so much for sharing that with me! Yall were mess'd up too!....just not as much as me but still.....lol.......that makes me feel better in a sick kind of way......lol....




L.M.A.O!!!!! I bet W2S has a ball with that one...lol...

I'm wiped right now and want to soak in hot tub. I'll mull yallz stuff over some more while there. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Calgon, take me the freak away!......... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Hey there hope your day is a little better today. As everyone keeps telling me keep your chin up things can only get better from here on out. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> hugs from me and baby LH4E

Ah, thanks L4H.

Just been doing a lot of thinking today.

Almost checked into the GODDESS thread, but didn't. I looked at the last post on there and someone was checking in with all the goddessy things she's done so far today and I hadn't even gotten out of my PJ's! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

So, I got up and got out of my PJ's, straightened up the house and am working on my laundry. I really need to be studying too. I have a test Wednesday and I haven't even opended the book. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />


Thanks for stopping by. Hope you guys are doing well too.

Along with calgon.....*beam me up Scotty*! I'd rather my atoms were scattered across the universe than to be in the spot I am now!!

mopey....it does get better. And when it does (when it REALLY does) I hope you'll change your name to reflect that. In the meantime, from dopey to mopey:

(((((((((((((((mopey))))))))))))))))

I'm having a small meltdown over here. I've done pretty good today, considering. Deep pain just below the surface but it has just reached the top again. I am sooooooooooooooo sick of crying! I never thought it was humanly possible to cry as much as I have over the last 16 months! I am keeping the tissue makers in business.

Honestly you guys, I am afraid. I am afraid of not being able to get over it.

He has literally cheated on me since I've known him. He told me he NEVER felt guilty for any of it, until now, supposedly.

He's flirted and used porn throughout our marriage and it left me with a huge esteem problem where his words would help, but I don't believe him. And a lot of times his words hurt as well.


This one is old but he told me he had feelings for the OW he fell in love (lust) with that he never had for me. That still cuts me like a knife. He says he never had those kinds of butterfly feelings for me even when we were dating.

He has spoon feed me small details sprinkled with lies FOR 15 MONTHS. He minimized EVERYTHING from the get go.

He failed one of the three questions on the polygraph test and I've caught him in 2 lies since the test.

He told me once about 10 months ago or so that he didn't think I deserved compassion and when confronted, he back peddled. I honestly feel he stills feels this way sometimes.

I feel he tries to blame his "FOO" issues for his behavior when he knew the difference between right and wrong. Otherwise, he wouldn't have hidden it now would he?

He has played video games while I've cried uncontrollably because of a trigger and then "lack of emotion" from him.

He has been defensive in every conversation but TWO since it all started.

He didn't even tell our son goodbye when he left. No note, no phone call nothing. He did this when he left me for that OW before too. He barely spoke to the kids at all. I have no respect for men like that.

I have been angry over what "I found out", and rightly so, only to be more upset because what he told me was a lie and find out later it's all worse than what he said. The more I get upset over the lies and continual dripping of info, the more *I* am blamed for him "not feeling safe".

There were about 5 written request I asked of him to get a timeline and such that was approved by Jennifer Harley. I asked him for some of these things over a year ago. I asked for reassuring words that are there on an inconsistent basis. And his words, due to his prior appeasement and lying, leave me to wonder what is true and what isn't.


I know me and what he's doing isn't enough for me. I don't feel like anyone really understands the debth of betrayal I feel.

We never had a great marriage and I struggled and wanted to. Windstopped checked out of the marriage from day one. He admits this.

All the above is a lot of pain to deal with. I had so low hopes of him ever trying to comfort me that I asked for no contact. I don't want to dissapointed when I don't hear from him because he's doing something fun.

I honestly feel like I am setting myself up for the next step. I just want the pain to stop. Windstopped has NEVER been there for me emotionally and I fear he never will.

I needed to get that off my chest even though I've said it all before.

I just don't see him as my hero.

Night everybody.

Oh, Starfish, thanks. I needed the hug. I'll give some thought to the name. I agree.

I can't go to bed without listing the positives.

He wants to have fun with ME. And I do have fun with him.

He tells me things I wish I could believe.

He is the best kisser I have ever had. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
Among other things. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

He's reading a lot of self help books.

He's in counseling.

He's being transparent. Or at least he was until I asked for no contact.

Do you think the former waywards would forgive someone like me for taking it all so bad? I haven't been the "model BS". <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

I do know it's not all of my fault.

Of course it's not all your fault. He needs to come to a place of compassion and understanding of what you need to heal. I explained yesterday about the change in perspective. He is just not there. Maybe some of it is because of the way you have reacted, but I'm not sure about that. There is so much about him that has been false. You are not faced with one infidelity situation here. He has admitted being "checked out" of the M from the beginning...what do you DO with something like that?

He tells you things you wish you could believe, but the problem is, he also lies and gaslights and blames his past and brings things into the equation that are irrelevant (what is the deal with FOO...good grief), etc. He is reading self help books, that's great. But here's the thing. I could read self help books till the cows come home, and it wouldn't make me understand the pain I have caused my husband because of my A any freakin better!!!! He can explore his "inner workings" until his outer workings get old and wrinkled but it isn't going to bring him any closer to the TRUTH about what he has done to your M. Do you get where I am going with this?

I truly do not know what it is gonna take for him to move beyond himself and start thinking about YOU. How to care for and nurture YOU as his WIFE. Sometimes I think there is maybe just too much here to get over. I think he needs to work on more than his SELF. He is reading the HNHN books and reading the MB principles, but the question is...WHAT IS DOING ABOUT IT. Reading it doesn't make it your reality. It's the inner shift that you are looking for and longing for and he just hasn't gotten it yet. Will he? I don't know. What will get him there? I don't know that, either.

The point I have made all along is that you have the potential to be happy with or without him. To be with him, he needs to be in it 100%. But you can find that happiness within yourself and therefore when you do allow him back into your life, it will be because he has come to a place of understanding of what it takes to be a happily married couple. Not because he is sorry enough or contrite enough or whatever, but because you feel the change in him beyond the measure of words. Do you have the right to depend on him for your happiness...yes, to a certain point. But demanding that he get there or else isn't going to make it happen. Finding happiness and peace within yourself creates a setting where you can be strong and clear in your choice of whether he is in the right mindset to make this M work. The end of the "madness" in other words, starts with YOU, not him. YOU have to take back control of your happiness and then let him be a PART of that if he has come to a place where he can ADD to your joy.

The first step to your happiness, though, starts with YOU.

Mopey,

Don't worry about what the rest of the BS's here think. It's about how you feel. There is no doubt that this is some of the hardest chit that ANYONE can go through and with the 4 Ddays you've been hit with it's no wonder you're still struggling to move past them. No one here is going to fault you for that.

From what I've read, of yours and WindStopped's threads this is my take on things. You've both stated all the things he is doing to try to give you "just compensation" for his actions. Where things seem to be going wrong is that he still isn't taking responsibility for the feelings and pain this has caused you. So, he's doing what he can to make changes but he sees your emotions as being punishment for HIS choices. This is so much like what LaLa and I struggled with. Where we would spend a week where things would be going pretty well then out of nowhere I would have a trigger or a bad day and she saw it as me just punishing her with my emotions. She would withdraw from me and then this would cause me to rehash everything in my head trying to figure out if my feelings were justified. Once I rehashed everything in my head and would confront LaLa with my feelings It would come out in anger causing even more resentment. This was the vicious cycle we were stuck in for months before we both came to MB.

The only thing that broke this cycle was when LaLa started posting here and her perspective of the situation changed. Once she realized that the emotions and feelings I have were out of my control at times and that they were a consequence of her choices it made things so much better. Now, when I'm having a hard time or the emotions of the past year get to me, she is right there to ask if there is anything she can do to help me. For the most part, I try to deal with my triggers and stuff on my own as to spare my DW more pain than she already feels for whats happened. The differnce is I KNOW that if I can't shake a feeling or if things are really bothering me I can go to her for support without fearing her reaction. I can count on her to be the loving caring woman I fell in love with because she no longer sees my feelings as punishment.

That is where I think the 2 of you are going wrong. Windstopped has to step up and totally own responsibility for the feelings his actions have caused you. Then you have to be sure not to use your emotions to punish him for his actions. Believe me, I know what a delicate balancing act this is.

Hi again mopey-

I read through your recent posts, and I am struck by how they are all about HIM.

What about you?

In your corner,
~Saturn

Thanks LaLa...



Yes, this is where I need to be. Thank you again.

It is definitely a balancing act.

Thanks for understanding.

As PM said, I need to work on "lettingitgo".

Hi SR,





Any suggestions on where I should start?

Glad you asked <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

A good way to start is to make a “pie chart” of yourself. First list all the important categories of your life.

Here are some parts to my chart:
Career
Children
Home environment
Friends
Finances
Spiritual
Community
Time use
Marriage
Extended Family
Health

Next, write out what “success” would look like in each category. For example: Success in my “Friends” category looks like:
*making time to email or phone each of my close friends at least once a month
*arranging a girl’s night out once a month for dinner & movie
*Special outings with my kids and friends with children (picnic in the park, trip to zoo, etc)
*inviting someone new over for dinner every three months

Then grade yourself in each category. For my Friends section, I give myself a “2” because I dropped a lot of friendships as my problems led me to become more isolated (most of my friends just get a Xmas card each year and nothing else), I invite other kids to special outings but not their parents (so not really focusing on my friendships, just my kid’s friendships!), and I haven’t had anyone over for dinner in YEARS. So I really need to work on that part of my life!!! The only thing I do well is girl’s night out, but it only happens about once every three months and I’d like for it to be monthly.

When you finish all the categories, make a circle on paper and assign one category to each slice of the pie. Then color in the chart by your grade to make deficiencies visible (the pie will collapse in areas where you’ve neglected yourself).

This way, you might see that you’ve spent so much time focusing on your marriage that there’s not much left over for YOU. As LaLa says, you need to nurture yourself now- you desperately need it! Don’t get overwhelmed by the stuff you want to do- just pick ONE pie slice to focus on for a particular length of time (like a week). Even small changes that improve your overall wellbeing will make a big impact on your general mood.

I hope you feel better soon...
{{{{mopey}}}}

Saturn, you're the bomb. Thanks for taking the time to write all of that out. I like the idea.

I do know that I have let all of those other areas of my life slide because I thought my marriage needed so much of my focus since the d-year started.

But this will be good for me now. To try to put back the other pieces of my life.

I can almost already see what the pie is going to look like before I even write it down and that is not a pretty picture.

Thanks again.

(((mopey)))

I'm married to a former serial cheater.

I had a false recovery because I accepted the CRUMBS my FWH was handing to me, much like yours. My husband had another affair during that false recovery and was caught kissing the woman in our own home by our then 16 year old son. He had brought her home as 'the babysitter' while I was away at college-- something he had encouraged me to do. I was dumb enough to go.

Anyway, the night of my last D-day, which was his confession over the phone WITH THE WOMAN STILL IN OUR HOUSE, I went absolutely positively ballistic. We call that Plan F U around here, although my only plan that night was Plan D. I was just getting it all out on the phone and he had NEVER heard me say some of the things I said. Let's just say I had both my FWH and the OW in tears. OW thought he was getting a divorce and had custody of the children. Guess I should mention she was 19 and pregnant (about 4 months) and I actually had to ask my FWH if he was the father. I think it was that night my husband hit his rockbottem.

That was when he realized I absolutly was MORE than willing to leave him, even if it broke my heart.

THAT was when he stopped shifting blame and took FULL responsibility for his actions. It was THAT night he FINALLY understood the pain he was causing the ENTIRE family.

It was that night that I stopped worrying about HIM and started living for ME. I handed almost all the work to him. HE f'd up, he better damn well fix it.

If the WS is truly repentent, they will be willing to do MOST the work and that also includes dealing with the hurt they've caused the BS.

IF your WH is not willing to deal with your hurt, is not comforting you when you need it, is not willing to hear about your feelings or give you compassion... then he is not truly repentent and is still a WS.


I'm glad that you are in a frame of mind that you are no longer willing to accept a half-a$$ed recovery.