Ok, I finally am able to "steal" a little time to post. I'm sorry, things are just so incredibly hectic right now... but this chapter applies so much to what is happening.

Like I said, H has applied for a job. He goes for an interview next week. Please pray that, if it's God's will, he will get an offer. It seems like it's God's will that we leave here.

This chapter talks about being stuck in the wilderness. I feel like that's what I'm experiencing. She talks about how our attitudes keep us stuck; how the Israelites felt their lack of progress was due to having too many enemies; and how here was always some "reason" why she wasn't progressing. I've fallen into that trap.

I want to learn to: have a Godly attitude, trusting God and doing what He shows me to do; wait for Him and not try to do it my way; and not be afraid of God's searchlight. "Pray for truth, cooperate with God in the attitude adjustments, and then rest in the knowledge that He loves you very much."

Some thoughts about chapter 9, which is also something I need right now:

NB, I saw on another thread you mentioned "Do it afraid!" That's in chapter 9. A whole lot of times I procrastinate out of fear.

There are some things I've been avoiding for years, projects that I need to finish, that I owe to other people to finish, and not finishing them is hurting myself. It's been so long now, I have a huge amount of fear even thinking about it. But the anticipation is usually worse than the actual action.

I am learning to "Do it afraid!"

Hi jayne,

I will be praying for your H. I hope whatever is suppose to happen (with regard to staying or leaving) is so obvious you can't miss it!

Yes, "Do it afraid" is pretty-much something I think about all the time. Like when I go to my doctor's visits (when I think I'm dying), at my job (when I make cold calls), setting safe boundaries (which still feels so foreign and scary to me).

Chapter 8 and 9 tie together for me because one is about the devil and 9 is about fear. Who else puts the fear into us?

I am generally fear-based person (who is learning, ever so slowly) to let go and trust God. Funny that I didn't realize this is where that saying came from: "Do it Afraid". I just turned to chapter 9 and saw it there with yellow highlighter. I guess I thought it was important enough, the first time around, to highlight it. Obviously, I remembered it!

Last month I sent a Mother's Journal to my oldest daughter (26) and she called me to say that she never knew some of the things I wrote about. It asked questions like about how you were as a kid, when you got married to their dad, when you found out you were pregnant... that kind of thing. So, when I was a kid I had NO FEAR. I was ADHD (still am) and part of the disorder is a big-time risk-taking. One thing that I'm VERY afraid of as an adult is snakes. You woudn't catch me even looking at them through glass. Creepy... scary. But when I was about 8 years old I went to my neighbours house, got his king snake, wrapped it around my neck and went home to show my mother -- who, uh, yeah, freaked out. I thought it was the height of hilarity. I'm just so amazed that the girl who did that was ME. At what point did I begin to fear? It's a good question, I think.

Ah well, anyway... must go.

I cut that off kinda weird. LOL I decided to come back and address what I meant.

Fear. Where did it come from? Are we born with it? Does experience or environment dictate who and what to be afraid of?

I may have mentioned a book called Praying with Katie by Don Holt. I honestly can't remember if I did or not. Katie is a cat and the book is absolutely beautiful, especially if you are a cat fanatic like me. The author talks about how Katie taught him to pray. How?, you may ask. Well, I wrote about it years ago (back in 2001) and I'd like to share a part of what I wrote then:

The subtitle of the book is "God, my Cat, and Me" and it is truly an AWESOME book.

The chapters read like any spiritual book trying to grasp the important:

Teach Us to Pray
Love
Judgment
Contemplation
Petition

You get the idea. In each chapter, Holt tells us how Katie teaches us to live... how to reach out to God... how to "Be still and know that"... God is God.

Allow me to share one quote with you, and it is the only one I will share, because I truly want everyone to BUY this book and cherish it - this quote is taken from the end of the book, after Katie has died:

We allowed Katie to live her life, to go out when she wanted to, even though we knew there were substantial risks from the traffic... There were large lawns in back... and we hoped that Katie would choose the grassland rather than the roadway. Or that, if she chose the road, she would be smart enough and quick enough to protect herself.

It didn't work out the way we hoped.

Is it that way for You, too Lord? You are aware of the dangers, yet You allow us to live our lives, hoping we will choose safe lawns to play in. Or at least, if we choose to explore dangerous roads, You hope we will be quick and careful in order that we might live."

Does this not bring you to tears, as it did to mine???

I feel that adding any more to this would tarnish it somehow, so I will leave you to your ponderings...

So, you see... years ago I read this little book and it changed my life.

How is it that I wasn't afraid and then I was -- of all sorts of things. Wasn't God still there, waiting to feed me, hold me and take care of me? Cats know they will be cared for... they don't worry about tomorrow. They live life moment by moment trusting that what they need will be provided when they need it. What an awesome concept, eh?

That IS awesome. Thanks for sharing about that book. I've never heard of it before, but I'll look for it. It should be easy to remember.

That analogy about free will and choosing the safe or dangerous path, what a touching way to put it.

It's very interesting that you are fearful about things now that you once were not fearful about at all. Did something happen? The thing with the neighbor's snake is a striking example.

Or maybe, we get more fearful as we get older, because we value security more than adventure, as a natural result of being older, having more at stake (children, homes, careers) and less energy? I'm realizing I live with more fear than I used to think. I wonder if that's new or if I've always had those fears.

Re. chapter 10, I often fall into the trap of leaving God out of the loop. The stuff that's going on now is very much reminding me that I can do nothing apart from God. Like Joyce says, I want to learn to accept God's grace in *all* things - to pray for what I think is needed, then turn it over to God to deal with in His way and in His timing. I think I'm getting better at that.

Now I want to remember that I can do all things through Jesus Christ who strengthens me.

Also: "God has a good plan for my life." - Jer. 29:11

Hi jayne,


Like so many other women I know... unfortunately... I was sexually molested at 9 years old, which I think may have had something to do with it. It was a woman who molested me and it wasn't violent. But that brings up all sorts of OTHER concerns/ questions (along with guilt and shame)... and is such a deep subject that I don't want to just gloss over it.

It's lunch time and almost over, at that. Please forgive me for not having more time to thoroughly discuss it. Monday and Wednesday nights are usually good times for me to be able to sit here and type... so on Monday I'll come back to this.


I COMPLETELY agree!! Oh gosh, I want to talk and type and visit with you!

Darn it!!!!!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

I will be back, jayne. I have a lot to say about this and it ties in with what I've been studying about guilt and shame.

Have a great weekend!

Jayne,

I'm here... just wanted you to know. I'll be back when I can. I missed talking this last week. Glad to see things up and running again.

How are you?

I'm here, I missed the boards too! I wonder if that means I need to cut back. The new format is nice but I'm still getting used to it and learning how to use the features.

I'm on Day 12, where are you? I'm trying to apply what she says about not leaving God out of the loop, accepting the favor of God, and using words to bless.

We have a house full of guests right now, my mom, and H's brother and SIL and their two kids. It's hectic but it's great to have this opportunity to bond and for the cousins to bond.

Have fun with your family, Jayne!!!

I've wondered about cutting back for years, and have done it, actually, but not without a fight! I was so addicted to this place it was crazy. I still have my moments, like if I get involved in a conversation or thread, but it's nothing like it was in the olden days of new_beginning (the 1st, not to be confused with II). Seriously Jayne, in 1999 and the early 2000's I wrote over 10,000 posts. Yeah, uh, ahem.

About the book: Chapter 10 says something fairly profound, I think.

She talked about submission and trusting people... about her disappointments. She said that God's word told her:

"I'm not asking you to trust people. I'm asking you to trust Me."

I have spent many, many years trying to do things myself and/or submit to earthly authority (which anyone who has to work outside the home certainly has to do!)... I've read many books on submitting to our husband's (and on the one hand think it's a beautiful goal, yet on the other it annoys me because our husbands are only human and make mistakes. If I know something he doesn't and advise him, he does the opposite and we fall on our faces, that makes me NOT want to submit to him, you know?). Okay, I got issues with submission and trust. That's a whole 'nuther can o' worms, isn't it?

But I like the quote... to get back to the original thought...

Yes, I'm struggling with the concept of trusting God vs. relying on my own strength. These past few days of reading, I'm struggling with understanding how to achieve balance, because I know she can't mean to treat God like "Santa Claus" and just expect everything to be handed to you without you doing your part; or that God will always answer your prayers with a yes. I know she means something different, I'm just having problems seeing how the right way would look, as opposed to the wrong way.

I imagine all this presumes you are walking within the will of God... but then in Day 13 she says to not wait until you are perfect before you become a friend of God. She says being a friend of God gives you boldness to approach Him again and again to ask for things you know are yours. But for that to not look like treating God as a Santa Claus, that must mean your request is within God's will, right? Which means you shouldn't demand things of God... but I do see how we are to assume that we have power because we are friends of God.

I'm not disagreeing with what she's written, I'm just struggling to understand how to apply it, with balance. Maybe I go too far in the direction of assuming I have no power.

Could it be that for some things, God doesn't necessarily prefer one choice over another, but rather He can work with us regardless of which of, say, two or three options we choose?

Hey there, sister!


Get in line, not behind me, beside me. I'm there with you.


I completely agree. I struggle with balance in general... being a very... uh... colourful person... dramatic... 'out there'... not a lot of balance in that kind of personality. I live BIG, I love BIG, I believe BIG.

Okay, so... Santa Clause... I have always struggled with what it means to pray when asking for something specific because, like you (I think), I go from two extremes: Believing God will answer Yes, or believing God knows best and will answer No. Unfortunately, I don't often have a sense of which way it will go and I hesitate to get my hopes up, but then, on the other side (whew! this is a long run-on sentence!) don't want to limit God and know He wants the best for me.


Good grief, that IS confusing.

I mentioned I've been a Christian since I was 15 and have gone through various incarnations through relationship with God, Jesus, Churches, Other Christians, you name it. I feel like I'm almost always reaching out and just toughing the hem of His garment, which the Bible says is enough to heal, but I so often am left wanting, unsure, confused. Frankly, I don't like it one bit.

I feel out of the will of God right now, because I don't go to church. I know church isn't everything but it's something... and I think it's important. But then, (here I go again with the "but then agains")... I know very good, solid Christians who don't go to church at all. I know good Christians who weren't baptized, but the Church of Christ (where I was originally saved and baptized) says if you aren't baptized you're going to he11. I left the church because of dogma like that.

Sigh.


Maybe. Maybe we DON'T. 12 step programs talk a lot about us not having power over... addictions, of course, but it makes me wonder about ALL things.

Then belief systems like, say, The Secret come along and say you have ALL the power, simply because of the law of attraction, which God created.

For people like me (and perhaps you) it all gets soooo overwhelming, which I why I struggle to find simplicity in my faith.


Good question... and I bet you're right about some of the options we have.

My concern has been (for some time, actually) that I stand at forks in the road and choose the wrong way. I can look back over my life and see some real doozie choices and KNOW they weren't right... but they brought me to this point, to this discussion with you... so there is potential for good to come from even the worst decisions, right?

"An act of kindness; effort on one's behalf or interest"

That is the definition of "favor"...

And the subject of Chapter 11.

Joyce says: God's favor is available to us but that doesn't mean we partake...

Made me think of a buffet... there's a really nice, huge, yummy buffet here in town... $17.50 a plate... so much to choose from... the very few times we've been there (for special occasions, mostly)... we've overeaten... gorged... so much to choose from. But there are things we leave out, because we can't take everything, can we? So we take what we want.

I wonder... do I not WANT God's favor? 'Cause it is THERE for the taking. Why don't I TAKE it?

When we ask someone a favor, we are asking for something unearned...

... much like grace...

I love the concept of grace.

I have a very strong work ethic... I want nothing handed to me that I can work for... but what a blessing it is when I get a gift of something I needed at just the time I needed it...

God wants us to seek his favor... and accept it with joy.

For me, I am a bad receiver... I don't take gifts gracefully... maybe because I don't feel I deserve it...

And ASKING for favor seems... wrong. Why is that?

Something to think about...

Hello to MYSELF! I found the password to an "old name" of mine and am going to use this one exclusively. I'm still me, though!!!

I just want you to know I haven't forgotten about this thread or about the book --- but honestly, I put it down a few weeks ago and haven't picked it up much. As much as I'd said I didn't want to put any pressure on anyone (and that was TRUTHFUL) I do miss having someone to bounce this off of... so I kind of just stopped. I tend to go in fits and starts, so I know I will be back to this... just wanted to say so to anyone who dropped by... especially if you're thinking of buying the book yourself.

Hi new/Nyneve!

I'm so sorry, things got busy and I put the book down and forgot all about it! We have finals next week so I'll probably be able to check in over the weekend and then later next week, then I should be more regular again.

Although I haven't read lately, God's been doing something pretty awesome in my life the past couple weeks. I've wanted to tell someone, I don't know why I didn't think of sharing here!

Basically this semester started out absolutely incredibly rough... but the two people around me who probably are going through the most difficult times of anyone I know, they are the two people who have reached out to me and turned everything around.

And things have been timed perfectly, things like, I needed to talk to someone who is usually not available, and I turn a corner and there they are. Or, I get delayed going somewhere and as a result I run into someone who presents me with an opportunity, or tells me something I need to know, or something. Another, I was pressured into going to a women's luncheon that I really didn't want to go to, and that's where I connected with one of the two people I mentioned above. If I hadn't gone, my life would be quite different right now.

Also, several of the things I've read (before I stopped reading) have been just the thing to share with someone else.

I'm so sorry I haven't been a more consistent partner in reading. I'll try to stop by a couple times over the next few days, and by late next week everything should be at least manageable.

I hope you've been doing well!

Hey jayne!

Don't be sorry... I've done the same thing with the book.

I'm so glad that God is working in your life that way... as He often does, even when we don't realize it, eh?

I'd love to hear more about what's happening and I do want to get back to the book, too. I don't like when this happens... I get all excited and then lose interest for some reason. Part of my issue right now is that we're getting ready to move (YAY) and also that my H hasn't had to work really later as often. I have a couple of websites I visit and try to keep up with and have been woefully neglectful of them, too.

All that to say, I'm sorry, too!

You're moving? That's exciting! A long move, or just to another house in the same city?

We still don't know about H's job, apparently they are still waiting for a decision from the first person. If things don't work out then H is second. At this rate I'm not sure if I'm still enthusiastic about taking the job though.

I just read Chapter 13, Becoming God's Friend. Our church has a song we sing, a contemporary song, "I am a friend of God." I like it (even though I miss a lot of the traditional hymns).

I hadn't thought that I should be "bold" in approaching Him again and again. I figured that you should ask, but always say you want His will to be done, and if there's no answer then you should let it go. But she says: "Knowing that you are a friend of God causes you to be shamelessly persistent until you feel victory in your spirit." She also (again) says not to wait until you are perfect before doing this.

I guess there needs to be some balance, you must be confident that what you are asking for is within God's will, or you must ask for things in a way that God can answer "yes" in His own wisdom, right? Like, instead of asking for a particular job position, ask that He leads you to a better job or makes the current job better?

Does that make sense? What do you think, how much is it ok to ask God for something specific?

Which chapter are you on?

Jayne,

Forgive me.

We're moving, the book is packed. I wasn't paying attention and it's in a box. I can't believe it.

I haven't been on to write much because my H wasn't working overtime... and overtime is my internet time.

I am NOT ignoring you and I LOVE your question. When I can get back to write on it more, I will.

In a nutshell, though...

Everything I've ever read in the Bible has said that we MUST be specific in our requests.

I have so much more to say, and I will be back when I can...

No apologies necessary! Especially after all the times I took a long time responding.

Good luck with the move. Sounds exciting.

We may be moving too, H got the job offer! We don't know any details yet, we're going to a conference in New Zealand in a few days and the person making the offer will be at the conference too. We will probably get the details there. We're still not sure if something can be worked out for me too.

So right now I'm torn. I did go ahead and pray specifically that he'd get the job offer! My mom has been praying for that for a long time, she wants me out of this place. A lot about this place is toxic.

Now I guess I'll pray that we get a good enough offer to justify leaving the job security I have here, and uprooting the kids.

MANY MANY MANY CONGRATS!!!!!

This offer could open something for YOU, too? That would be GREAT!!

It's interesting that you prayed for this job specifically, and got a positive answer to your prayer... and your Mom has been praying for you to get out of there....

... yet ...

Now you're wondering if the offer is worth the loss of your job security and uprooting the kids...

Is it fear, do you think?

I can totally relate, by the way. For me, I just plain don't like NOT KNOWING what is going on.

For me, it's a little control problem and big trust problem... as in: I want to control and I don't trust anyone (not even God?).

What do you think, jayne?

PS: I'm so HAPPY for you. This could be the beginning of something really wonderful for your whole family. If you decide against it, it could still be a real learning experience. I personally don't do well with change but I know in my heart it is necessary for growth.

Quote: H got the job offer!

Oh jayne, I am so happy for you!! I have been praying it will happen. YAY!!!